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The Conners (spoilers)


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#1
El Chalupacabra

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https://www.cnn.com/...anne/index.html

 

I used to watch the original Rosanne show in reruns and the final season at the same time years ago, but never got into the revival series.  I maybe saw like half an episode.  And we all know what happened with the revival show, so it's not like why it was cancelled needs to be rehashed.

 

I tuned in for about 10 minutes last night, just to see how they handled the spin off The Conners.  I wasn't really interested in the show, just curious how they would handle it.  Once the curiosity was squelched, I tuned out.  I was sure they would kill off Rosanne, but didn't know how they would do it (car accident or natural causes were my guesses).   But they kind of took a dark and odd turn, and thought it was an odd choice to kill off the character through opioid addiction.  Sort of a parallel with the ambien thing.  Also, John Goodman doesn't look good these days!  WTF happened to him! I know he has struggled with addiction himself, and lost a ton of weight, but damn! 

 

I doubt I will watch this show,  but not so much because they killed off Rosanne and they probably can pull off a decent show without her, more because lack of interest.  That all said, I will be surprised if this show isn't cancelled after the first season.



#2
Odine

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I just saw the still in the link so didn't get a great look at Goodman, though he doesn't look so bad... Hes just old.  He  looks a lot healthier for having lost all the weight tbh, as does Roseanne Barr. 

 

I used to watch the OG series when I was a kid, but no interest in it as a show for years. 

 

i reckon they chose the opiod addiction death as a bit of a twist of the knife to Rosanne after her comments. Giving her death-by-oxy is a bit of a way of calling her a hillbilly. 



#3
El Chalupacabra

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Yeah, I am not sure what the motivation was.  Kind of seemed a little dramatic. If it was a bit of a twist of the knife, that was unnecessary (not defending Rosanne Barr's comments in any way, just seems a petty way to handle it if it was payback). Not that it was a big deal, but they could have simply left Rosanne's death a heart attack.  

 

I remember a show that went through something similar called Valarie back in the 1980s (?), where the title character left the show, and they renamed it The Hogans.  They didn't dwell on the death of that character, just simply said she died of a car accident and brought in Sandy Duncan to replace Valarie Harper ( I think that was the name of the actress).  



#4
The Choc

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I don't see how dying of an addiction is any kind of slight or "twist of the knife" to Roseanne or anyone else. Plenty of people who aren't "hillbillies" die of addiction to opiodes. The fact that you guys see it as reflecting poorly on someone is just kinda ridiculous on your part. 



#5
El Chalupacabra

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I have a cyber stalker.  yay!!


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#6
The Choc

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So we both post on the same messageboard and when I write in the same thread I'm a "cyber stalker". In all honesty I was writing to the other guy because I was under the impression you couldn't see my posts. I mean I even used the exact terms he used "twist of the knife" and "hillbilly". Maybe I should have quoted his post and talked to him directly? 

 

I'm glad you can though, not too many posters here anymore so it's a shame if there is one less to interact with. Especially someone who posts stuff that I sometimes feel the need to reply to. 



#7
Fozzie

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Opiod addiction is a huge issue that transcends socio-economic class. But it makes people feel better to think that it's hillbillies and idiots.

Opiod related death seems to fit into the traditional Roseanne method of focusing on current issues. Making her live and go off somewhere would've been more of a twisting of the knife.

Opiod addiction is real, it's awful, and you can't easily tell who is addicted, even amongst close friends and family. When I worked at a pharmacy, we were very aware of who was addicted and what doctors were helping feed the addiction, but there was almost nothing we could do about it. And I'm talking salesmen, successful business people, even VPs of major companies.
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#8
El Chalupacabra

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Opiod addiction is a huge issue that transcends socio-economic class. But it makes people feel better to think that it's hillbillies and idiots.

Opiod related death seems to fit into the traditional Roseanne method of focusing on current issues. Making her live and go off somewhere would've been more of a twisting of the knife.

Opiod addiction is real, it's awful, and you can't easily tell who is addicted, even amongst close friends and family. When I worked at a pharmacy, we were very aware of who was addicted and what doctors were helping feed the addiction, but there was almost nothing we could do about it. And I'm talking salesmen, successful business people, even VPs of major companies.

Well I understand killing off Rosanne, if they wanted to continue the show in the form of the spin off it took.  But what an odd choice to make as the method of killing the character off, is all I am saying.   I'm not making judgement (or light of) opioid addiction, it just seemed such a weird way to start off the show in what basically was its pilot. 

 

I mean in the whole original run, the show was about the Rosanne character.   Rosanne was the glue that held the rest of the cast together, and more often than not, she was the character the others went to for advice, resolve issues, etc.  

 

But in the pilot of The Conners, killing Rosanne off is a downer (albeit necessary, I suppose) already, but then taking it to another level, was unnecessarily dark and depressing, especially when its a comedy show.  It really was out of place when (paraphrasing) Dan says something to the effect "welp, no one could tell Rosanne what to do, so if she was gonna OD, she was gonna do it no matter what."  Pretty depressing.  That was the point I was trying to get across, at least.   



#9
El Chalupacabra

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One other thought, Fozzie, is usually, when other shows kill off a main character, there is some sort of memorializing (for a lack of a better term?), of the character.  You see the other characters go through a grieving process, which we did get some of, but also there is some sort of eulogizing or celebrating the deceased character, as well, so as not to be too heavy (walking dead excluded!).  The opioid addiction angle doesn't do that, but rather just is a depressing and jarring intro to the character's death.  

 

I don't know that there was an ideal way to handle writing out the Rosanne character, dead or not and considering the real-world reason for writing her out in the first place, but I kind of felt they could have handled it in a better way.



#10
Jacen123

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They actually set up that Roseanne was on opiods for knee problems last season.  She was already showing signs of abusing them, too, and that she and Dan didn't have health insurance that would pay for knee surgery.  The season then ended with her planning to have the surgery.  As such, killing her off this way was actually set up surprisingly well given that it wasn't meant to do this.


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#11
Odine

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I don't see how dying of an addiction is any kind of slight or "twist of the knife" to Roseanne or anyone else. Plenty of people who aren't "hillbillies" die of addiction to opiodes. The fact that you guys see it as reflecting poorly on someone is just kinda ridiculous on your part. 

*sigh*

 

 don't see any addiction as reflecting poorly on an individual. Your assumption of my views based on a passing thought on a message board makes you ridiculous. Personally I have used and abused many substances both recreational and proscribed that I would never judge someone based on their poor choices. I would be nothing more than a hypocrite. 

 

Though I'd be willing to bet the average watcher of Roseanne would. Hence my idea that it was a twist of the knife by the network. What better way to show your disdain of Roseannes racist comments than writing her off as a  sad drug addict, that a lot of the viewership would look down at.  Though what do I know? I haven't watched **** american sitcoms since I was a teenager. 



#12
Iceheart

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Honestly, I came in here just to see how they killed the character off. And I'm really surprised that I didn't guess it right off the bat.

 

I watched the original show when it was on in the 80's/90's, but I'm finding that the nostalgia revivals are kinda tainting my childhood memories at this point, and since this one was touted as being very political and I am very much on political fatigue, I passed.

 

But as a chronic pain patient who doesn't even use opioids but still has the epidemic hanging over my head nearly every day, I'm not at all surprised that that's where they went with the story. Didn't This Is Us have an opioid addiction storyline, too? I'm surprised it hasn't made it into more tv and movies, but then I don't watch much that takes place in a realistic setting.



#13
monkeygirl

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https://tvline.com/2...pioid-overdose/


“I AIN’T DEAD, BITCHES!!!!”

 

 

:)


https://www.today.co...er-died-t140015



#14
El Chalupacabra

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They actually set up that Roseanne was on opiods for knee problems last season.  She was already showing signs of abusing them, too, and that she and Dan didn't have health insurance that would pay for knee surgery.  The season then ended with her planning to have the surgery.  As such, killing her off this way was actually set up surprisingly well given that it wasn't meant to do this.

Well thank you for bringing that up.  Since I hadn't watched season 1 of the revival Rosanne, that does make more sense.  Like you said, probably a little serendipity going on there as far as lining up with the spinoff show.  But still,  a little bit of an unceremonious end to the Rosanne character. 



#15
Jacen123

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I don't disagree about it being unceremonious, but I think it was handled in-show so far just about as well as possible.  It wasn't treated as a joke and led to some good moments between the other characters.  Hopefully, that will be maintained as it continues.



#16
El Chalupacabra

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I don't disagree about it being unceremonious, but I think it was handled in-show so far just about as well as possible.  It wasn't treated as a joke and led to some good moments between the other characters.  Hopefully, that will be maintained as it continues.

With your explanation, it makes more sense to me, too.  It does fit the story.  But I was coming into that pilot cold, so it was pretty jarring.  Enough to where I didn't want to finish the episode. 



#17
Jacen123

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That makes complete sense.  I can imagine I'd feel similarly if I hadn't watched last season, too.


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#18
Metropolis

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Last season was uneven. There were good episodes and others that played to much on nostalgia. Rumor has it that ABC is wondering if they should have moved forward without Rosanne. They are worried about ratings and think they might have to cancel it.

#19
El Chalupacabra

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While i totally understand why they fired Barr, from a business perspective ABC was probably too quick to fire her and probably should have just put the Rosanne show on hiatus until the controversy died down. But I am sure had they done that, they would have faced protests they can't afford to deal with.

#20
Dark Wader

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They can always bring her back. Didnt Goodman die in the last series?

But I agree...I mean I dont in anyway condone what she said cause it was effed up, but the world has turned into a very reactive place. (James Gunn is another good example)

#21
The Choc

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I don't see how dying of an addiction is any kind of slight or "twist of the knife" to Roseanne or anyone else. Plenty of people who aren't "hillbillies" die of addiction to opiodes. The fact that you guys see it as reflecting poorly on someone is just kinda ridiculous on your part. 

*sigh*

 

 don't see any addiction as reflecting poorly on an individual. Your assumption of my views based on a passing thought on a message board makes you ridiculous. Personally I have used and abused many substances both recreational and proscribed that I would never judge someone based on their poor choices. I would be nothing more than a hypocrite. 

 

Though I'd be willing to bet the average watcher of Roseanne would. Hence my idea that it was a twist of the knife by the network. What better way to show your disdain of Roseannes racist comments than writing her off as a  sad drug addict, that a lot of the viewership would look down at.  Though what do I know? I haven't watched **** american sitcoms since I was a teenager. 

 

I can only go by what you say here, you are right that I don't know exactly what your thinking is on any subject. So maybe in the future you could read over your posts and make sure they accurately reflect what you mean?

 

Anyway, I disagree with your 2nd paragraph. Unfortunately drug addiction has became so widespread that most Americans probably know someone who has had problems with and wouldn't look at it that way any longer. Some would, for sure, but most wouldn't in this day and age. 

 

I haven't watched the show either but Roseanne in it's heyday was a show that didn't shy away from problems that many Ameican's faced, so my guess is they used the decision to kill off her character as an opportunity to do the same thing here. 

 

In the end, I'm glad that you don't feel that way about drug addicts and I'm sorry you've dealt with that awful disease. Maybe it hits too close to home for me. However here is the last thing you said in your original post "I reckon they chose the opiod addiciton death as a bit of a twist of the knife to Roseanne after her comments. Giving her death by oxy is a bit of a way of calling her a hillbilly." Again, I'll ask how would I not think that is your opinion there? 



#22
Iceheart

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As an aside, I live in the rural midwest, and if you really want to use a drug to flag your character as white trash, you'd use meth, not opioids.



#23
Tank

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Last season was uneven. There were good episodes and others that played to much on nostalgia. Rumor has it that ABC is wondering if they should have moved forward without Rosanne. They are worried about ratings and think they might have to cancel it.

The mistake I think was to try and keep the familiar setting/set-up/dynamics of Roseanne, just minus Roseanne.

 

They should have pivoted.

 

Make the show about Darlene and her kids. Set it in THEIR home. Do the same blue-collar poor folk approach to things. You get Becky just like Roseanne has Jackie. Dan can come over to babysit and fix stuff. David can come by when he's not on the worst, and yet highest paid, sitcom ever. They had all the pieces to do a new show with the same themes and characters, but instead tried to just remove the title character from something that had been a certain way for decades.



#24
Odine

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I don't see how dying of an addiction is any kind of slight or "twist of the knife" to Roseanne or anyone else. Plenty of people who aren't "hillbillies" die of addiction to opiodes. The fact that you guys see it as reflecting poorly on someone is just kinda ridiculous on your part. 

*sigh*

 

 don't see any addiction as reflecting poorly on an individual. Your assumption of my views based on a passing thought on a message board makes you ridiculous. Personally I have used and abused many substances both recreational and proscribed that I would never judge someone based on their poor choices. I would be nothing more than a hypocrite. 

 

Though I'd be willing to bet the average watcher of Roseanne would. Hence my idea that it was a twist of the knife by the network. What better way to show your disdain of Roseannes racist comments than writing her off as a  sad drug addict, that a lot of the viewership would look down at.  Though what do I know? I haven't watched **** american sitcoms since I was a teenager. 

 

 

 

In the end, I'm glad that you don't feel that way about drug addicts and I'm sorry you've dealt with that awful disease. Maybe it hits too close to home for me. However here is the last thing you said in your original post "I reckon they chose the opiod addiciton death as a bit of a twist of the knife to Roseanne after her comments. Giving her death by oxy is a bit of a way of calling her a hillbilly." Again, I'll ask how would I not think that is your opinion there? 

 

Ahh man, don't feel bad. I had a blast doing what I did and I was never an addict. Came close,  but never full blown.  Also I don't think addiction is a disease. Its a trait. One that can be channeled appropriately, into constructive things, if one tries hard enough. But the idea of calling it a disease doesn't sit well with me, as I know plenty of addicts who have managed to turn that trait around to be a source of strength rather than weakness.  

 

As to the hillbilly thing. I was only meaning to make the connection that Oxy sometimes is referred to as 'hillbilly heroin', and that just perhaps, just maybe they were making one last dig at Roseanne. But you know, whatever. I was only speculating... and everyone has come up with more thoughtful responses and more accurate conclusions than what I did in my little post. 


Edited by Odine, 22 October 2018 - 01:44 PM.


#25
El Chalupacabra

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Last season was uneven. There were good episodes and others that played to much on nostalgia. Rumor has it that ABC is wondering if they should have moved forward without Rosanne. They are worried about ratings and think they might have to cancel it.

The mistake I think was to try and keep the familiar setting/set-up/dynamics of Roseanne, just minus Roseanne.

 

They should have pivoted.

 

Make the show about Darlene and her kids. Set it in THEIR home. Do the same blue-collar poor folk approach to things. You get Becky just like Roseanne has Jackie. Dan can come over to babysit and fix stuff. David can come by when he's not on the worst, and yet highest paid, sitcom ever. They had all the pieces to do a new show with the same themes and characters, but instead tried to just remove the title character from something that had been a certain way for decades.

 

When they first announced Barr being fired, but the show continuing, this is pretty much what I thought the would do.  Total missed opportunity.  

 

Makes me wonder if they knew that the show was not going to last long no matter what they did, so they just re-used the same sets and setting, because ABC didn't want to sink a lot of money into a show that will probably be cancelled after the first season, anyway.