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The Great Fantasy Glut of Early October 2018


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#1
Iceheart

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Okay, this is getting ridiculous, so I'm re-purposing this thread no one seemed to see anyway.

 

Within the past 24 hours...

 

Amazon has ordered Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time for a series adaption.

 

Amazon has made a deal with Neil Gaiman for exclusive rights to his future television and film work.

 

Netflix has ordered multiple films and series from the Chronicles of Narnia.

 

Now, I have two initial thoughts:

 

1. why now, with Game of Thrones seven years old and coming to an end? Yeah, okay, get the juggernaut out of the way, but in all of the time Game of Thrones dominated absolutely everything, the only other high fantasy series we got were The Shannara Chronicles, The Magicians, Peter Jackson spreading The Hobbit as thin as possible, and that Will Smith movie about orc cops?

 

2. is Hollywood taking suggestions? Because I have a list.



#2
El Chalupacabra

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There's been a fantasy glut since LOTR came out.  It never stopped.  It just comes in waves. 

 

I think part of it is the overall geek culture surge (Star Wars, superheroes, zombies, etc)  that started around the same time, and part of it is that with the advancement of CGI, movies can now depict scenes from books a lot easier now.  



#3
Iceheart

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I still feel like these three pieces of recent news should have been news in 2012 or so.

 

... okay, maybe not Narnia, since there was the big-budget movie series in between LOTR and GOT. But Wheel of Time seems like a no-brainer to pick up in the immediate wake of GOT. Unless they've been back-and-forth with Jordan's estate this whole time.

 

I just hope that Gaiman settling into Amazon means that we'll finally get something from The Sandman on film (Lucifer doesn't count).



#4
Fozzie

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I hope that Narnia is well done. The first two movies were crap that completely changed the characters to create some form of additional drama.
I want Peter to not be a reluctant hero and for him not to be a jealous prick in Prince Caspian.

Reading the books to my kids now, and I would love to be able to share a good version with them.

#5
Iceheart

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Agreed. At least we know Netflix knows how to portray young characters in a way that's realistic and relatable, and generally makes for great all-ages fare.

 

Also, I am absolutely dying to see how they handle Susan at the end of the series in this day and age.

 

Heh, now that Amazon has Gaiman, I wonder if they'll be doing "The Problem of Susan" as a rebuttal.



#6
El Chalupacabra

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I still feel like these three pieces of recent news should have been news in 2012 or so.

 

... okay, maybe not Narnia, since there was the big-budget movie series in between LOTR and GOT. But Wheel of Time seems like a no-brainer to pick up in the immediate wake of GOT. Unless they've been back-and-forth with Jordan's estate this whole time.

 

I just hope that Gaiman settling into Amazon means that we'll finally get something from The Sandman on film (Lucifer doesn't count).

Well, I see what you are saying, but there could be reasons, like acquiring the rights to those properties, took a while.  Maybe the ball got rolling in 2012 ish, but took that long to get the rights, and film it. 

 

Sounds like a Tank question to me.  



#7
Fozzie

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I wonder if it also just took some time to figure out how much they were willing to spend on original streaming content. Doing fantasy well is expensive.
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#8
Poe Dameron

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Reading the books to my kids now, and I would love to be able to share a good version with them.

 

Honestly, never really got Narnia.  Not that interesting really.

 

Also, I am absolutely dying to see how they handle Susan at the end of the series in this day and age.

 

They barely handled Susan in the original.  Easy enough to just gloss that part over.  Though I think the controversy on that is pretty weak.  Seemed like just a caution against materialism and decadence getting in the way of one's connection with God to me.



#9
Fozzie

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Reading the books to my kids now, and I would love to be able to share a good version with them.

 
Honestly, never really got Narnia.  Not that interesting really.
 

Also, I am absolutely dying to see how they handle Susan at the end of the series in this day and age.

 
They barely handled Susan in the original.  Easy enough to just gloss that part over.  Though I think the controversy on that is pretty weak.  Seemed like just a caution against materialism and decadence getting in the way of one's connection with God to me.

The first four books are great young children's literature. Publication order, not chronological. Chronological order is stupid and makes no sense. After that, it goes off course. Not sure of the intended audience for The Horse and His Boy. It's children's literature with adult themes. Too adult for my kids, to kiddie for me. Maybe pre-teen? I guess if you look at them from publication order, a 6 year old reading The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe would be a pre-teen by the time it came out.

They aren't kids books that work well for adults, the way adults loved Harry Potter. But they aren't meant to be. I loved them as a kid, and love reading them to my kids (my son is five, which is great for the first three books).

#10
Iceheart

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Also, I am absolutely dying to see how they handle Susan at the end of the series in this day and age.

 

They barely handled Susan in the original.  Easy enough to just gloss that part over.  Though I think the controversy on that is pretty weak.  Seemed like just a caution against materialism and decadence getting in the way of one's connection with God to me.

 

 

 

... that line was meant to be taken with the line directly after it, considering we're discussing Neil Gaiman who famously wrote a short story on the subject in the same thread as we're discussing Narnia.



#11
El Chalupacabra

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Not quite on topic, but 2 things:

 

I loved Robert Jordan's Conan books.  Used to read those along with the other RE Howard and later TOR Conan Chronologies.

 

I would LOOOVVEE a true adaptation of the Shanarra series, starting with Sword. I know Sword was was derivative of LOTR, but still liked it, and the later books like Elf Stones, Wish Song, Scions, etc.  I know there is that MTV series, which I haven't seen, but I understand there are liberties taken with that.    



#12
Fozzie

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Also, I am absolutely dying to see how they handle Susan at the end of the series in this day and age.

 
They barely handled Susan in the original.  Easy enough to just gloss that part over.  Though I think the controversy on that is pretty weak.  Seemed like just a caution against materialism and decadence getting in the way of one's connection with God to me.
 
 
 
... that line was meant to be taken with the line directly after it, considering we're discussing Neil Gaiman who famously wrote a short story on the subject in the same thread as we're discussing Narnia.

Could you explain what you mean? I dislike Gaiman's writing so I have no clue. Even taken together, it sounds like there's something you don't feel works in the modern era.

#13
Iceheart

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From Wikipedia, because they say it better than I do:

 

Fantasy author Neil Gaiman's 2004 short story "The Problem of Susan" depicts its protagonist, Professor Hastings (who strongly resembles an adult version of Susan), dealing with the grief and trauma of her entire family's death in a train crash, as she is interviewed by a college literature student regarding her opinion on Susan's place in the Narnia books. Since the publication of Gaiman's story, "the problem of Susan" has become used more widely as a catchphrase for the literary and feminist investigation into Susan's treatment.
 
Authors J. K. Rowling and Philip Pullman, both of whom were influenced by Lewis, have also commented on the issue:
 
There comes a point where Susan, who was the older girl, is lost to Narnia because she becomes interested in lipstick. She's become irreligious basically because she found sex. I have a big problem with that.
 
— J. K. Rowling
 
I just don’t like the conclusions Lewis comes to, after all that analysis, the way he shuts children out from heaven, or whatever it is, on the grounds that the one girl is interested in boys. She’s a teenager! Ah, it’s terrible: Sex — can’t have that.
 
— Philip Pullman

 

 



#14
Iceheart

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I loved Robert Jordan's Conan books. 

 

 

Yeah, I'm going to add that to my list of fantasy series someone needs to pick up for a film or tv redux.


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#15
El Chalupacabra

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I loved Robert Jordan's Conan books. 

 

 

Yeah, I'm going to add that to my list of fantasy series someone needs to pick up for a film or tv redux.

 

You are making me want to re-read my Conan books, that have been sitting on my shelf for years!  Same with the Conan Saga/Savage Sword of Conan comics I have packed away.

 

Conan the Renegade by Leonard Carpenter is a pretty good one, too.

 

No one asks for Arnold Schwarzenegger movies these days, especially since Genisys, but I would love to see him reprise the role, as an old King Conan.  


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#16
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That would be baller. My dad would **** himself with glee if that happened.

 

I adore Jason Momoa in general, but that Conan movie they made a few years back was terrible.



#17
El Chalupacabra

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Yeah, on paper, it should have rocked.  Mamoa even looked the part more than Arnie.  But it fell flat for sure.  



#18
Odine

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If they bring conan back he needs the short fringe bob that Frazetta gave him in design. Go traditional. When hollywood try and "modernify" something classic they always screw it up.

Momoa is too pretty for conan...he doesnt have the gnarly facial bone structure

#19
Iceheart

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Naw, he has the gnarly bone structure now... he just didn't when he was in his 20's.



#20
Fozzie

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From Wikipedia, because they say it better than I do:
 

Fantasy author Neil Gaiman's 2004 short story "The Problem of Susan" depicts its protagonist, Professor Hastings (who strongly resembles an adult version of Susan), dealing with the grief and trauma of her entire family's death in a train crash, as she is interviewed by a college literature student regarding her opinion on Susan's place in the Narnia books. Since the publication of Gaiman's story, "the problem of Susan" has become used more widely as a catchphrase for the literary and feminist investigation into Susan's treatment.
 
Authors J. K. Rowling and Philip Pullman, both of whom were influenced by Lewis, have also commented on the issue:
 
There comes a point where Susan, who was the older girl, is lost to Narnia because she becomes interested in lipstick. She's become irreligious basically because she found sex. I have a big problem with that.
 
 J. K. Rowling
 
I just dont like the conclusions Lewis comes to, after all that analysis, the way he shuts children out from heaven, or whatever it is, on the grounds that the one girl is interested in boys. Shes a teenager! Ah, its terrible: Sex cant have that.
 
 Philip Pullman
 

 

I see the point, but I think that it's a stretch and focusing on one sentence in order to be upset.

Susan wanted desperately to be an "adult" and by age 21 had convinced herself that Narnia was a game and told her siblings that they were still playing a childhood game. Given that the Chronicles make it explicitly plain that Aslan is Jesus, and not an allegorical version, Susan is denying her faith because she's grown up and thinks that it's just for kids. In any mainstream version of Christianity, especially the Catholic, Orthodox, or Anglican churches, such a thing would be considered reason for exclusion from heaven. Heck, even if they are right, and sex is the issue, premarital sex would do the same.

Faulting Lewis for being Christian and writing Christian fiction in a way that shows Christian values is disingenuous at best.

#21
El Chalupacabra

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Naw, he has the gnarly bone structure now... he just didn't when he was in his 20's.

Yeah, having a beer glass broken over your face does that!  These days, he looks like Rob Zombie!


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#22
El Chalupacabra

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If they bring conan back he needs the short fringe bob that Frazetta gave him in design. Go traditional. When hollywood try and "modernify" something classic they always screw it up.

Momoa is too pretty for conan...he doesnt have the gnarly facial bone structure

If they do another Conan film without Arnie, they really should get someone who does look like the classic Conan from the Fazetta design.  Or at least Savage Sword of Conan/Conan Saga cover art.


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#23
Iceheart

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Fozzie, I can't remember, was there an established practiced religion in the world of the books? I got the impression that only the MCs of each book even knew what Narnia was other than people in the world/dimension/wherever Narnia was supposed to be.

 

Was Susan raised in a traditional Christian church? Did Aslan ever say to her in plain English that he was actual Jesus, the actual man crucified on the cross that hangs above the altar in the sanctuary she has worshiped in her whole life (he may have, it's been awhile since I read the books)?  And then she got booted out of Narnia - as Aslan was well aware that her faith was a bit shaky. Religious practice and rituals sustained regularly on a consistent basis is very different than bouncing back and forth to a fantasy land often against your will, and then being told you're never going back. Without any connection to Narnia and Aslan at all (beyond younger siblings and cousins still visiting, but I get the impression they don't see each other much the older they get), would she have maintained that Aslan is a God and Narnia is real and she must stay devout without regular enforcement? No Christian church demands that, quite the opposite.

 

Especially considering the entire reason the Pevensie kids found Narnia in the first place is that they were shipped off to the countryside, without their parents, to escape the London Blitz, I could very much see the eldest sister hit a certain age and wonder if it was all some game that turned into some shared hallucination from the stress and terror of the situation and their very young ages.

 

I feel like she was done dirty.



#24
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Naw, he has the gnarly bone structure now... he just didn't when he was in his 20's.

Yeah, having a beer glass broken over your face does that!  These days, he looks like Rob Zombie!

 

Man I never made that connection before and now I don't think I'll ever be able not to...



#25
Fozzie

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Fozzie, I can't remember, was there an established practiced religion in the world of the books? I got the impression that only the MCs of each book even knew what Narnia was other than people in the world/dimension/wherever Narnia was supposed to be.
 
Was Susan raised in a traditional Christian church? Did Aslan ever say to her in plain English that he was actual Jesus, the actual man crucified on the cross that hangs above the altar in the sanctuary she has worshiped in her whole life (he may have, it's been awhile since I read the books)?  And then she got booted out of Narnia - as Aslan was well aware that her faith was a bit shaky. Religious practice and rituals sustained regularly on a consistent basis is very different than bouncing back and forth to a fantasy land often against your will, and then being told you're never going back. Without any connection to Narnia and Aslan at all (beyond younger siblings and cousins still visiting, but I get the impression they don't see each other much the older they get), would she have maintained that Aslan is a God and Narnia is real and she must stay devout without regular enforcement? No Christian church demands that, quite the opposite.
 
Especially considering the entire reason the Pevensie kids found Narnia in the first place is that they were shipped off to the countryside, without their parents, to escape the London Blitz, I could very much see the eldest sister hit a certain age and wonder if it was all some game that turned into some shared hallucination from the stress and terror of the situation and their very young ages.
 
I feel like she was done dirty.


It's implied that Aslan told Peter and Susan, but it isn't expressly stated. That scene is told from the point of view of Edmund and Lucy, while Aslan takes Peter and Susan aside to explain who he is and why they won't come back.

And it still ignores the fact that the Chronicles are Christian fiction written by a Christian apologist. It's a children's version of Mere Christianity.

Like I said, the argument is disingenuous. Or, I guess, ignorant of who Lewis was and his reason for writing.