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Dark Phoenix


38 replies to this topic

#26
Poe Dameron

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Feel better?

 

Honestly, I just have to admit that I don't know how to deal with you anymore Tank.  It's like walking on eggshells.  If I engage, I'm obstinate, if I disengage, I'm a coward.  Sticking with trivial topics with you for awhile isn't going to work.  My posting behavior and how far I'm willing to push unpopular opinions is more tied to your moods, how close you are to quitting the board or just telling me to **** off and being done with me, than you could possibly be aware.  And I don't believe you have a concept of how often I've turned the other cheek to your injurious comments because I would hope you wouldn't make them so frequently if you did.



#27
Tank

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I'm also a weird dude. I also am overly sensitive and get worked up easily. You are somebody who I genuinely enjoy debating with because you're one of the only people I know of who has the exact opposite opinion of me on everything, but I still think is intelligent enough to express why in a way that is actually logical.

But sometimes you are obstinate at a maddening level and it makes me crazy. Because I know you're smart, but sometimes your logic and way of thinking super does not compute for me.

I don't mean to target you, I apologize for that. But there's only like ten of us left posting here so I probably throw more at you than is fair. I do apologize.

....but come on, both Deadpool movies feature mutants as the only people with powers... it's the XCU

#28
El Chalupacabra

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Deadpool remains not an X-Men character.  He is indeed in the same universe and X-Men characters appear in his movies, but that does not make it an X-Men movie, particularly the first one which basically had Colossus on loan and not much else.  If the Fantastic Four had shared the same universe and had X-Men characters within it, we would still call it a Fantastic Four movie and not an X-Men movie.

 

When you put it that way, I can buy your explanation.   Deadpool is NOT a regular, permanent Xmen team member in either the movies or the comics (that I know of).  Also, the Deadpool movies are like spin off movies within the xmen film universe, but don't directly impact the xmen film plots.   Similar to how Solo or Rogue One are spin offs don't affect (too much) the episodes, I suppose, though Deadpool affects the xmen films even less than that.   So, I see what you are saying and it makes sense.  

 

However, I consider them part of the greater xmen film universe franchise, just like how the spin off Star Wars story films or EU are part of the greater Star Wars universe.   So, I tend to lump Deadpool in as an x-film, even if it is only a spin off, and not part of the xfilm series proper.  



#29
Poe Dameron

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I'm also a weird dude. I also am overly sensitive and get worked up easily. You are somebody who I genuinely enjoy debating with because you're one of the only people I know of who has the exact opposite opinion of me on everything, but I still think is intelligent enough to express why in a way that is actually logical.

 

I appreciate that.  And you know you have my respect.  It's why I care whether the bridge gets burned or not.



#30
Poe Dameron

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However, I consider them part of the greater xmen film universe franchise, just like how the spin off Star Wars story films or EU are part of the greater Star Wars universe.   So, I tend to lump Deadpool in as an x-film, even if it is only a spin off, and not part of the xfilm series proper.

 

It's more that the character isn't intrinsically an X-Men character that probably caused the difference.  A Storm movie will always be an X-Men movie even if no other X-Men are to be found.  A Solo movie will always be a Star Wars movie.  But Deadpool does whatever the hell he wants to.  I think of him as an independent character borrowing the established franchise's universe because he lives on reference humor.

 

I think a big part of the disconnect is the thinness of the connection in the first movie.  Really, it's just 10-15 minutes of a complete reboot version of Colossus, a sidekick I'd never heard of, a set, and some jokes.  Like 90% of the movie could have been made just as easily by Sony.  It never even occurred to me to consider it an X-Men film.

 

The second movie has a much stronger case.  I probably didn't consider it because the first movie's independence with just a touch of X-Men led me in the direction of "Team-up".

 

For the record, I wasn't just crossing off all the X-Men movies I could and adding all the Batman movies.  I could have added Suicide Squad, Catwoman, and The Killing Joke if I was just looking to be a dickish.

 

As I was posting, I actually thought that including Mask of the Phantasm was going to be the one to get pushback.  I even deleted an asterisk justifying its inclusion just before sending it.



#31
El Chalupacabra

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However, I consider them part of the greater xmen film universe franchise, just like how the spin off Star Wars story films or EU are part of the greater Star Wars universe.   So, I tend to lump Deadpool in as an x-film, even if it is only a spin off, and not part of the xfilm series proper.

 

It's more that the character isn't intrinsically an X-Men character that probably caused the difference.  A Storm movie will always be an X-Men movie even if no other X-Men are to be found.  A Solo movie will always be a Star Wars movie.  But Deadpool does whatever the hell he wants to.  I think of him as an independent character borrowing the established franchise's universe because he lives on reference humor.

 

I think a big part of the disconnect is the thinness of the connection in the first movie.  Really, it's just 10-15 minutes of a complete reboot version of Colossus, a sidekick I'd never heard of, a set, and some jokes.  Like 90% of the movie could have been made just as easily by Sony.  It never even occurred to me to consider it an X-Men film.

 

The second movie has a much stronger case.  I probably didn't consider it because the first movie's independence with just a touch of X-Men led me in the direction of "Team-up".

 

For the record, I wasn't just crossing off all the X-Men movies I could and adding all the Batman movies.  I could have added Suicide Squad, Catwoman, and The Killing Joke if I was just looking to be a dickish.

 

As I was posting, I actually thought that including Mask of the Phantasm was going to be the one to get pushback.  I even deleted an asterisk justifying its inclusion just before sending it.

 

Well, were the Deadpools supposed to be connected to the xfilms story line?  I don't think they were.   I think Deadpools 1&2 did exactly what they were supposed to:  establish Deadpool exists in the same universe, have a few xmen cameos, but in the end, it was Deadpool's film and story.  I haven't read comics in forever, but I did wikipedia Deadpool when the first movie came out because I didn't even know who he was (which is why I wasn't upset with Xmen origins Wolverine, because I had no clue what Deadpool was supposed to be like back then), but it seems that the later Deadpool movies nailed the depiction in comics.  As for Colossus, we already had a soft reboot with the xfilms, with other actors taking over roles, so Colossus being changed does't bother me.  

 

Like I said before, it may not be part of the Xfilms proper, but because it is established as the same universe, and made by the same studio, when I classify Deadpool films, I lump them in as xfilms, but they aren't technically part of the xfilm story line.  But if they do connect them in the future, and since it is set in the same universe (or film multiverse? if not the same timeline), I think it can be easily done.  



#32
Poe Dameron

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Well, were the Deadpools supposed to be connected to the xfilms story line?  I don't think they were.   I think Deadpools 1&2 did exactly what they were supposed to:  establish Deadpool exists in the same universe, have a few xmen cameos, but in the end, it was Deadpool's film and story.

 

That's pretty much what I'm saying.  Though to go one step further the first movie also actively wanted to keep Deadpool at arm's distance from X-Men.  Remember, Deadpool came out a few months before X-Men: Apocalypse.  At the time, the X-Men franchise was on solid ground with Bryan Singer back at the helm and Days of Future Past being a big hit that left people generally happy and passed the baton to the McAvoy crew.

 

This made tying the X-Men to the R-rated Deadpool risky.  Did they really want the X-Men associated with a violent movie filled with cursing, nudity, and pegging?  So they let him play around in the universe, but only a little, and not with any characters that have been established within the X-Men franchise.  Even the one character put on loan isn't the same one that we remember.  All arm's length just in case this smallish-budget experiment blows up in their face.

 

Skip forward a couple years, and we have the opposite.  Apocalypse disappointed pretty much everyone and left the X-Men franchise in disarray.  Meanwhile, Deadpool got a ton of love, hype, and cultural credit and is now Fox's biggest active IP.  Tying Deadpool more closely to the X-Men franchise now makes a lot more financial sense, doesn't it?  Plans are made to put him on a legit X-Men team and the X-Men play a much bigger role in his movie.  Fox wants people to think of Deadpool when they think of X-Men.

 

Tank mentioned Fox's accounting department considering Deadpool a part of the X-Men franchise.  Perhaps.  There marketing department surely wants the connection.  But if Deadpool had failed or had been hated and Apocalypse had been awesome, Deadpool would have been quietly orphaned.


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#33
El Chalupacabra

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Well, I think when you clarify it that way, I agree with you on that.  Not an xman film, but still part of the greater franchise.  

 

 

 

Tank mentioned Fox's accounting department considering Deadpool a part of the X-Men franchise.  Perhaps.  There marketing department surely wants the connection.  But if Deadpool had failed or had been hated and Apocalypse had been awesome, Deadpool would have been quietly orphaned.

Again, I agree.  Ironic that Deadpool did so well, and the films they didn't want too closely associated, didn't.  It's possible Deadpool may end up saving the xmen franchise, though. 

 

I don't know if it is still in the works but the last I heard there was supposedly a Gambit movie coming out.  I wonder if they will handle it like Deadpool 1, and if it is a hit, we may actually see more spin off movies in the xmen universe.   That assumes the Fox buy out doesn't affect it, and they don't eventually try to roll the xmen into the MCU at some point.  I actually kind of hope they don't, aside from maybe a cameo or 2.    The one thing I liked about the xmen films is that while not MCU, nothing in those films, or the MCU films really contradict one another, except maybe Quicksilver.  If one wanted to, one could consider the MCU  and Xmen in the same multiverse, as part of one's own head canon, unlike the spiderman films.



#34
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Hahah... "x-films storyline"
LIKE THAT EXISTS!

For me, Deadpool was always Deadpool & Cable, which was an X-book.

#35
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As I was posting, I actually thought that including Mask of the Phantasm was going to be the one to get pushback.  I even deleted an asterisk justifying its inclusion just before sending it.

 

 

 

I think we are all Of A Certain Age where we have waaaaaay too much love and respect for Batman TAS to give you any pushback there.



#36
El Chalupacabra

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Hahah... "x-films storyline"
LIKE THAT EXISTS!

For me, Deadpool was always Deadpool & Cable, which was an X-book.

It may be like a plate of spaghetti, but there is a story line for the xmen films. Somewhere, in there, anyway!

 

 

 

 

 

As I was posting, I actually thought that including Mask of the Phantasm was going to be the one to get pushback.  I even deleted an asterisk justifying its inclusion just before sending it.

 

 

 

I think we are all Of A Certain Age where we have waaaaaay too much love and respect for Batman TAS to give you any pushback there.

 

Yeah, actually Batman TAS is arguably the best incarnation of Batman in either film or TV. 



#37
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As I was posting, I actually thought that including Mask of the Phantasm was going to be the one to get pushback.  I even deleted an asterisk justifying its inclusion just before sending it.
 

 
 
I think we are all Of A Certain Age where we have waaaaaay too much love and respect for Batman TAS to give you any pushback there.

I thought about it, but it wasn't worthy of an argument.

#38
Tank

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No one denies TAS

#39
Poe Dameron

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Yeah, actually Batman TAS is arguably the best incarnation of Batman in either film or TV. 

 

 

That was basically the deleted asterisk.





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