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Woman Issue


43 replies to this topic

#1
Zerimar Nyliram

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Greetings, Nightly! I'm Zerimar Nyliram, a name which, contrary to popular belief, is not an anagram my own (I am male)--the story behind the name actually comes from Marilyn Manson and his former bassist, Twiggy Ramirez. You can usually catch me in the Star Wars forum, though I do occasionally pop into other forums.

Anyway, I appear before your graces today seeking your sage advice regarding a certain female.

I met this incredible woman at a speed dating event back in October. We liked each other, went on several dates, and discovered that we had a lot in common. She even met my parents and they really loved one another.

Considering my reputation for attracting women of unsavory character, this one was quite the breath of fresh air. She is incredibly intelligent, educated, well-read, and has a heart of gold. Like myself, she has been through a lot in life which has shaped her into the incredible human being she is today. I just think the world of her, and she made it known to me that she felt the same way about me.

That all changed until one evening back in January, where she proceeded to tell me that although she found me an amazing match, she didn't feel she was in a place for a romantic relationship at the time. We met up for one last date to talk about it more in person, where she described her overwhelming insecurities that always prevented her from fully investing her emotions into any relationship. She even related a past relationship to me where, although the gentleman was everything she looked for in a man, there was always something missing on her part.

In other words, it wasn't me; it was her. It's a trite saying, but it was true. I believed her then, and still do.

So we decided to end the relationship but remain friends, though I told her I'd need some time away from communication in order to let my feelings cool down. Although it didn't hurt as much as it would have had we been farther advanced into the relationship, whether you lose a limb or simply skin your knees, it still hurts. Knowing myself, I needed that time apart to become detached.

So we didn't speak for about two months, then I started coming around, making little points of contact here and there, just to be friendly. She replied in kind.

But about a month ago, I inexplicably started pining over her again. I started thinking that she was my perfect match, and to let her get away would be a travesty.

So I called her last month, and we had a very good conversation and have been talking ever since. I finally invited her to meet up, which we did last week and had a really nice time walking around Pittsburgh. She asked me if I had been dating, to which I said I've been trying but nothing had really been working out. She had been dating and had been with a guy she really liked for about two months, and they ultimately parted ways because he had no wish to escalate the relationship into something that may have led to starting a family. This was surprising considering the place she was in mentally when last we saw each other, but I had fully expected her to have moved on and was glad she did.

The pseudo-date went on, and we talked about everything under the sun. She asked me about my feelings on things near and dear to my heart, including religion. It felt good to talk about a passion of mine.

 

Finally at the end of the day, when we were about to part ways to return to our vehicles, she hugged me. At this point I smiled, looked into her eyes, and asked her, "How would you feel about giving it another try?"

Well, she seemed incredibly flattered, and on some level the question made her day; nevertheless, she turned me down. I was half-expecting it, but the reason is what made my heart sink: she was still getting over the fact that the gentleman she'd been seeing recently did not want to take their relationship any further. I proceeded to tell her that she is a gem, and that whoever she ends up with had better remind her of that each and every day. She hugged me again and we departed.

Now, here's where it gets tricky: She had ended things with me right at the height of when it all seemed absolutely perfect and we were really enjoying one another, basically because she was not romantically available at the time. Obviously that changed rather quickly. The hurtful part is that she was willing to invest that energy and those feelings in someone else so soon after saying that such investment wasn't possible when we were together, and did not think to give me another try (though that was partially my fault for remaining incommunicado for a while). I know she didn't do it on purpose, and I'm not really hurt by her per se, but hurt by the way events played out.

I basically missed my window, and now she is right back to being not romantically available, though due to different circumstances.

Anyway, I feel like I want to make one more attempt at it, after which point I will abandon such a pursuit. I don't think she knows how much I want her back, and I have to play it careful so as not to seem too intense. I guess I want to reiterate to her how much I feel like we're both missing out on a golden opportunity with one another, as well as to explain to her why what I just explained is hurtful. I at least want to get the latter off my chest, but hopefully in a tactful way, one in which it doesn't seem like I'm berating her for giving my chance to someone else.

So yeah, that's the long and short of it (mostly long). Kudos to anyone who's still reading this. Basically, I got friendzoned, which is not a very terrible thing because I would love to have her in my life in some capacity, but I just feel like I want to tell her I'd like a second chance and not drive her away. Oh, and I'm perfectly fine with her needing to take time to let her feelings for the other guy die down, as I did with her, but to kind of let her know that she should give me first priority when she's ready to move forward with it. Does that make any sense? I hope so.

I eagerly await your responses.


John



#2
Metropolis

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Has she ever been married? If she's having these type of commitment issues and has never been married at least, then there is something else going on there that would personally make me nervous. Like you said she called it off when you guys were close to taking it to the next level. Now she's pining for some guy that didn't want to take it there either? If she's telling you the truth or if she's lying she's letting you off easy. I know it sucks when you think you might have something and nothing comes of it.

#3
Zerimar Nyliram

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I know exactly what it is: she has certain physiological problems that have made her insecure all her life. She has two autoimmune diseases that affect her appearance, so she has to take certain certain measures to hide certain things. It's not meant to be a secret and I know all about them because she told me, but it's been a major stumbling block in building her self-esteem. But those same things have also built her character to mold her into an incredibly empathetic and loving person, and having dealt with major things myself, it is something major that we have in common.

No, never been married. But then again, neither have I, and we are the same age (early thirties). We both started dating really late in life.



#4
Fozzie

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Let me see if I understand the situation correctly.

 

October - you meet her, she's actively looking.

 

January - She says she doesn't want to see you romantically, it's not you, it's her. She just isn't ready for a relationship

 

August - She tells you that she dated a guy for two months and they broke up because she wanted something more serious.  She turns you down again.

 

Is this right?  



#5
Poe Dameron

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I think I was thinking the same thing.  That she might have been letting him down gently.



#6
Zerimar Nyliram

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Don't think that hasn't occurred to me--it most certainly has. However, among other things, I want to find out if that is indeed the case and would appreciate any advice on how to tackle the matter tactfully.



#7
Zerimar Nyliram

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If it is something about me, I want to know what it is, and determine why I am so terrible at reading these things. It doesn't matter if I think I'm doing everything right or not, or whether we're truly connecting or not. The result is always the same: things end before they really even get off the ground. It is doing a number on my self-esteem and I want to get to the root of the problem.

But that's not a question you all can answer, nor would I expect you to attempt to do so. What I want is advice on: a) how to bring the relationship idea up again in a way that is presented as something that would be mutually advantageous, and b) how to bring up this whole "not-ready-for-commitment-yet-heartbroken-by-another-guy" issue.



#8
RamonAtila

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If it is something about me, I want to know what it is, and determine why I am so terrible at reading these things. It doesn't matter if I think I'm doing everything right or not, or whether we're truly connecting or not. The result is always the same: things end before they really even get off the ground. It is doing a number on my self-esteem and I want to get to the root of the problem.

But that's not a question you all can answer, nor would I expect you to attempt to do so. What I want is advice on: a) how to bring the relationship idea up again in a way that is presented as something that would be mutually advantageous, and b) how to bring up this whole "not-ready-for-commitment-yet-heartbroken-by-another-guy" issue.


A) what do you have to offer her? B)why bring it up? If you want her the topic should be you,not him
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#9
Metropolis

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I hate to be cliche and say that if you have real feelings for her that remaining friends would be tough, but it will be tough.

#10
Odine

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Zerimar, I don't know you so it's hard to impart any advice that is spot on...but I'm going to take a stab in the dark as it were...

First I would say, you (or anyone) should never have to CONVINCE (I use capitals instead of italics cause I'm on my phone.. I'm not shouting) someone to be with you. You're not a car. You're not a home or a consumer product, you don't have to PITCH yourself to someone. If being with you romantically is not self evident to the someone you want to be with (when they are aware of your feelings) then they are not worth your time. They are wasting it.

I would say from the sound of it, and you sort of admit too this somewhat, that you may be a little intense in your admiration or feelings of said individual. I mean no offence by this at all, depth of feeling is a wonderful trait, so don't temper that within yourself. (I myself have a history of coming on too strong...particularly when I was in my 20s...but when I met my wife it was a different story however.) what I would say though is it can be overwhelming to the other to be on the receiving end of such intensity or someone with such strong feelings. And as nuts as it sounds I think women generally speaking are more attracted to people who at first are a bit more flippant and carefree. The old adage (as horrible as it sounds, and despite how much I dislike it) "Treat em mean to keep em keen" has a note of truth to it. Somehow you need to stop caring about whether you two are together or not. Or at least in her eyes. That you're happy enough in your own skin. It goes back to it should be self evident that being with you is the right thing. Repeatedly telling her how much you feel for her or how awesome you guys are together is not making any headway, and it won't. If anything it will scare her off. Just look.. She's still hung up on a guy who is genuinely disinterested in her.

Also it should be said trying to present a relationship as being "mutually advantageous" is about as romantic a room full of old socks. I say avoid that wording and or attitude to the situation at all costs.

Try a new tack. Back off a bit and let things simmer. If she has really put you in a "friendzone" (I don't believe in such places existing or the permanence of such theoretical positions) then she's not worth the energy. And I mean her no disrespect when I say that.

Hope some of that helps, and if it doesn't work out try not to see it as a reflection on yourself. Because it isn't. But the more you try force something or convince someone of your worth the less it will succeed. You just have to be happy in YOURSELF first and foremost. Project THAT and then she, they, whoever, will come to YOU.

Hope that is of some help and isn't condescending or anything. Im not sure how it reads to someone else

Best of luck out there dude

Edited by Odine, 05 August 2018 - 02:51 AM.

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#11
RUAJedi2

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Feelings are hard.

The lady in question has told you no, twice. Do not make another attempt. If she is okay with being friends AND you can keep from trying to escalate it to something more than friendship, that's great, but accept that she does not want to be in a romantic relationship with you.
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#12
El Chalupacabra

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I agree with RU.  Might not be the answer you are hoping for, but this lady friend of yours said no to you twice.  Once is enough.  She knows where you are at and how to contact you.  If she wanted to resume dating, you wouldn't have to question it.  You would know, because if she wanted to date you again, she would tell you. Trying to figure out what her motives are is something you shouldn't even try to do.  Just accept her answer and move on.  There's no such thing as convincing someone to care for you, that's something that person has to do on their own.

 

I'd recommend taking a break from your friend, and date a few more people, before talking to her again.  Who knows, you may meet someone that makes you forget about this girl.  Not to sound harsh about dating, but why waste time pining over someone who told you no twice, when you could spend your time and energy trying to meet someone who IS right for you and more importantly, wants you as much as you want her?


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#13
Fozzie

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Don't think that hasn't occurred to me--it most certainly has. However, among other things, I want to find out if that is indeed the case and would appreciate any advice on how to tackle the matter tactfully.

Is my timeline correct? Poe made a bit of an assumption on meaning, but my advice would change based on when things happened.

If I am right, the best thing to do is to be direct. I would do it in person, but you can do whatever works for you. I would refrain from written communication. Say something along the lines of "I've been getting some mixed signals about your desire for romantic relationships. I just want to clear things up. I'm attracted to you, but it's okay if you don't feel the same way. I would just like to know, so I don't go on pursuing a relationship with someone who isn't interested in me."

#14
Darth Ender

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She's just not that into you.  Time to move on and stop talking to her.  If she wants something more in the future, she will contact you.  


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#15
Zerimar Nyliram

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Your timeline is more or less correct, except I made one error: we met in November, not October.

I think your approach is sound. I'm the type of guy that has always needed closure, so I suppose I can forget about asking to rekindle things again like others are suggesting. I would like to know what she was thinking the whole time, though.


She's just not that into you.  Time to move on and stop talking to her.  If she wants something more in the future, she will contact you.  

Geez, I don't need to cut someone out of my life for not being into me. I'm not that bitter about it.



#16
Zerimar Nyliram

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To be honest with you all, over the past forty-eight hours, I think my heart has been telling me to move on, and that it's going to be okay. I always kind of knew that, if I'm honest.

Still, closure would be nice.


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#17
Darth Ender

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Your timeline is more or less correct, except I made one error: we met in November, not October.

I think your approach is sound. I'm the type of guy that has always needed closure, so I suppose I can forget about asking to rekindle things again like others are suggesting. I would like to know what she was thinking the whole time, though.


She's just not that into you.  Time to move on and stop talking to her.  If she wants something more in the future, she will contact you.  

Geez, I don't need to cut someone out of my life for not being into me. I'm not that bitter about it.

It isn't about being bitter or mean.  It is about moving on.  Both of you.  

 

Let's say you continue to be friends.  You have romantic feelings and she does not.  Are you just going to watch her date guys and pretend to be happy for her all the wile you are waiting in the wings for your opportunity?  What if you start dating someone you like?  How is your non-romantic relationship to this woman going to impact your relationship.  Would the new woman be comfortable with your lopsided friendship?


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#18
Zerimar Nyliram

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Well, I've already got a female best friend, so I already know how that plays out. I just hate this attitude in the dating world where people are useless toys to be thrown away if you can't get out of them what you want.



#19
Destiny Skywalker

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Feelings are hard.

The lady in question has told you no, twice. Do not make another attempt. If she is okay with being friends AND you can keep from trying to escalate it to something more than friendship, that's great, but accept that she does not want to be in a romantic relationship with you.

This x 1000. She may think you're a great catch, but not HER catch. That's the vibe I'm getting. Before I was married, I had lots of guy friends who I thought would make excellent partners, but not my partner. Some of it was personal attraction, other things were little crap that I knew would make me crazy but someone else wouldn't mind.

While I can understand the desire to know why, she doesn't owe you anything. And quite frankly, it probably will hurt your feelings, and she'll likely sugar coat it. The best you can do is be your authentic self, and maybe spend a little time on self-reflection if you're having trouble dating quality women. Are your standards too high? (Don't get me wrong, don't settle for someone mean or nasty. Everyone deserves to be loved and treated well, so long as they treat others well.) I've had a lot of male friends with unrealistic standards of attractiveness. I flat out had to tell a friend that he wasn't hot, he wasn't rich, and he wasn't all that funny, so he needed to stop expecting his girlfriends to be supermodels. (He married a doctor, not too shabby. But a supermodel she's not. But she is effing hilarious and probably my favorite wife out of our friends.) Is there something you're doing to scare off quality women? Some women like being pursued, some don't. It's not about wanting guys who are disinterested, it's about intensity and wanting your own identity. Some women (and people) just need space.

#20
Metropolis

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Is that female best friend someone you were romantically involved with? To be fair it's not written in stone that you can't be friends with people you've slept with. It's just rare that either can get past the previous attachment without bringing up old feelings.

#21
Zerimar Nyliram

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This isn't in reply to anyone's post, but I think one major thing I liked about her was that there was no obsession with sex, and I didn't feel like I had to be so concerned with it in regard to her, either. I love sex as much as the next person, but having decided to be on the lookout for my life partner, the primacy of sexual expectancies seems off-putting to me. She seemed more mature than that, and that is extremely hard to find. I hate feeling like my worth as a human being is measured by that aspect of any relationship.



#22
Odine

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If you look you will not find. It's only by getting on with your own thing will the life partner come into it. Actively looking for love never finds it. It's a bit like walking into a bar holding up a sign saying "I'm keen".

#23
Poe Dameron

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Poe made a bit of an assumption on meaning

 

Sorry about that.



#24
El Chalupacabra

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To be honest with you all, over the past forty-eight hours, I think my heart has been telling me to move on, and that it's going to be okay. I always kind of knew that, if I'm honest.

Still, closure would be nice.

Well, hopefully with many people here confirming what you already suspected, that can serve as the closure you need to move on.  You may or may not get that with this friend of yours, but I wouldn't beat yourself up if you don't.  Not worth it. That's just how dating can be sometimes, unfortunately.  I think everyone here has been where you are now at one point or another. 


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#25
Fozzie

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 Poe made a bit of an assumption on meaning
 

Sorry about that.

No problem. I totally see how you got there, and I don't necessarily disagree.



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