Episode 9 News

[Tank]

 

 

Yes.

 

All the main characters are defined by their past, and they have to reconcile it in some way. Like I said. Burn it down. Move o n from it. Reconcile it. Accept it. Wallow in-- all variations of the same theme.

The theme is people dealing with the past, but the lesson is not to burn the past down.

I never said that. I said the overall theme was to forget, or move on from, the past, and each character's arc was them reconciling how their past defined them.

 

Kylo's way is to burn it down. But ALL of them are dealing with tgeir past defining them. You can quibble over semantic word definition and keep arguing obtusely if you want, but theme has always been super clear, I stated it, you disagreed, but Johnson himself confirmed it. Don't know what else to say, yo.

[Filthy Jawa]

In the context of that, I do think it's interesting that Rey saves the Jedi texts.

With even Luke wanting to burn them, hesitating, and then Yoda "doing it", the message was clear from RJ to the audience - wipe the slate clean - forget all the Star Wars baggage you brought into the theatre with you - we're moving forward with Star Wars, forget all that shit.

But then this little wink at the end "... well, not everything."

[Guest]

I don't think Kylo is referring to her parents being jerks as to why he thinks she will turn. It's because he believes that hearing her parents abandoned and sold her will make her angry. Kinda like "what the hell! how could they do this to me! I hate my parents! Why would this happen to ME? This isn't fair! I hate everything". He thinks it will make her angry that anger will swell inside her and it will cause her to turn to the darkside.

So it's not that her parents are jerks, it's just that they're jerks?

[The Choc]

 

 

Yes.

 

All the main characters are defined by their past, and they have to reconcile it in some way. Like I said. Burn it down. Move o n from it. Reconcile it. Accept it. Wallow in-- all variations of the same theme.

The theme is people dealing with the past, but the lesson is not to burn the past down.

I never said that. I said the overall theme was to forget, or move on from, the past, and each character's arc was them reconciling how their past defined them.

 

Kylo's way is to burn it down. But ALL of them are dealing with tgeir past defining them. You can quibble over semantic word definition and keep arguing obtusely if you want, but theme has always been super clear, I stated it, you disagreed, but Johnson himself confirmed it. Don't know what else to say, yo.

 

That's why I said a few posts ago we were playing semantics. You said the theme of the movie is "forget the past". Johnson in the article you posted said that the best way to handle it is what Rey did which is "build on it, appreciate it..." How do you build on something you are forgetting? Appreciating certainly isn't something you do to something you're forgetting.

 

I'd say the theme is much more dealing with your past in a positive manner going forward which is quite a bit different than forgetting the past.

 

Now in this post you said "...or move on from". But that's not what you said in your first post which prompted my response.

[The Choc]

 

I don't think Kylo is referring to her parents being jerks as to why he thinks she will turn. It's because he believes that hearing her parents abandoned and sold her will make her angry. Kinda like "what the hell! how could they do this to me! I hate my parents! Why would this happen to ME? This isn't fair! I hate everything". He thinks it will make her angry that anger will swell inside her and it will cause her to turn to the darkside.

So it's not that her parents are jerks, it's just that they're jerks?

 

It;s possible I misunderstood what you were saying in your initial post. I thought you were saying that because her parents left her and were essentially bad people that Kylo believed that made Rey bad also deep down.

[Filthy Jawa]

I'm not sure, but I think you're making a serious reply to a joke.

[The Choc]

I'm not sure, but I think you're making a serious reply to a joke.

I was, to be honest. Sometimes its hard to tell, lol.

[Filthy Jawa]

So is this an over-arching theme that will carry through to Episode 9?

 

VII: Dwell on the past - new characters are introduced, but they're mired in the baggage of old characters and old story structure. The search for an old hope, a familiar old super-weapon, etc.

 

VIII: Move on from the past - we've covered it in this thread.

 

IX: Make a new future - There have been forty years of writers creating stories about Jedi and Sith in one big war. Are the folks at LFL saying it's time to change the sandbox? What will that look like?

[Guest]

I'm of the belief that there's no master plan or theme. But bringing JJ in may help wrap it up to seem like there was more of a theme. Or he may go way off because mystery box.

[Guest El Chalupacabra]

.

[Tank]

Yeah-- like Kylo ditching the helmet... but now it's stitched back together. I feel like there's going to be stuff that doesn't track between Abrams and Johnson's take.

 

There's a lot of issues that could have been fixed ahead of time had they made a loose plan for the trilogy. They could have broken it like a TV writer's room. Get everyone together to plan an overall story, then assign scripts and directing duties to individual writer/directors.

[Odine]

Am I the only one that thinks its completely moronic, when you're in charge of a billion dollar franchise about to make a trilogy, to not have, i dunno a PLAN!? Am I crazy? Is that not film 101 to have at least a VAGUE notion of an overall story arc, that can track through all three films, when making a trilogy?

[Filthy Jawa]

Maybe they did that as an homage to George Lucas.

[Guest]

But Lucas always knew all of it. Just ask him.

[Tank]

Crazy as it nay seem, Lucas did have a plan. It was never as detailed as he claims, but he had a loose structure that still allowed for a lot to be developed individually for the films.

 

It may not have been perfect, but there were cohesive ideas and themes.

 

TFA and TLJ are so thematically opposed you get whiplash.

[Lucas1138]

That's where my... dislike is too strong... absence of like(?) for the sequel trilogy comes from. Both movies are fun/good in their own way. It's just that "their own way" is completely opposite one another.

 

But yes it's completely baffling to me that there was no "writer's room."

 

I think JJ being involved for the conclusion will be beneficial in making it (seem) cohesive so it will ultimately be satisfying.

[zambingo]

Crazy as it nay seem, Lucas did have a plan. It was never as detailed as he claims, but he had a loose structure that still allowed for a lot to be developed individually for the films.

 

It may not have been perfect, but there were cohesive ideas and themes.

 

TFA and TLJ are so thematically opposed you get whiplash.

This is why I suggested the themes and character arcs I did in that one thread that one time here somewhere. ;-) lol

[Guest El Chalupacabra]

.

[The Choc]

Honestly, the idea that TFA and TLJ don't work well together is the one criticism that baffles me most. I guess I, and Rian Johnson I suppose, just saw TFA somewhat differently than most did. Pretty much all the big, important things that happened in TLJ went as I expected.

[Guest El Chalupacabra]

.

[The Choc]

Is the different much more than the difference between Star Wars and Empire? Or then Empire and Jedi? I don't think so. Personally it's a positive that the movies differ in the ways you said.

[Guest El Chalupacabra]

.

[The Choc]

Overall the idea of being planned or not isn't a big deal to me. They have plusses and minuses. If it's too planned out it could stifle great ideas. I thiink some people, not necessarily anyone here, feel like these movies have been handed down from God to Lucas atop a mountain and are almost like eternal or pre-existing in a way. I remember one time someone on this board said something like "it's almost like they are writing it as they go along!" And I was like "how else would you write it?"

[Guest El Chalupacabra]

.

[The Choc]

I guess I am the opposite. I like things to be planned out. Good examples of that are the MCU, Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, and Babylon 5.

 

And that is not to say that there wasn't a plan with the ST. Maybe there is, and it hasn't been made public. But if there were such a plan, it seems like it was in the broadest stroke possible, and in a far lesser manner than the OT and PT (which even those had some writing on the fly going on there).

 

But like I said, once Episode 9 comes out, maybe things will fit better between TFA and TLJ for me (and those of similar mind set).

I;m not a big MCU fan. There is just such a sameness to all of the movies. Especially the first movies for each character. Im a huge Thrones fan and although I get the show is planned out, thats due to it being based on something that already existed. The books, Martin had somewhat of a plan but its changed dramatically over time.