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Episode 9 News


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#26
Ryn

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I joke about Snoke's daughter, but she could be one of the Knights.

#27
El Chalupacabra

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#28
Jacen123

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Just out of curiosity, how do you feel the messed up handling Leia?  I saw criticisms of Fisher's performance (especially in TFA), but I haven't seen so much about the company messing up Leia.  Besides her relationship with Han being non-existant for years, which I admit is a sizable "besides", her character seems like it makes the most sense with traditional thoughts about where the OT big 3 would be.  If you have commented on this before, I apologize for missing it.  I readily admit to having skimmed many parts of the reaction threads.



#29
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#30
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I get where you're coming from with wanting to see all three of the OT heroes share screen time together and have happier, or at least less ****ty, lives post-ROTJ.  I would have liked to have seen that, too. The TLJ/Leia issue is difficult because, as great of a send off as it would have been to have Leia take out Snoke's ship, we wouldn't have gotten the reunion with Luke as a result.  I think they probably made the right call, ultimately, though, in letting her story play out in the movie as planned.  I hope they still keep Leia as an important presence in death in Ep. IX even without her being able to be there.



#31
The Choc

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See for me you guys are just too wrapped up in protecting the OT. Star Wars does have to work as 1 big story, but it also has to function as 3 stories and even 9 stories. The event that really kicks off the ST is the night Ben destroyed Luke's school. That event has to play into the ST, not uphold the OT. That event totally destroys all of these peoples lives. It completely destroys Luke, it rips Han and Leia apart. That's what is great about it. 

 

As for Leia,  I disagree. You have more respect for the character and giving the character a send off than you do the actual human being person who made that character great. Allowing Carrie's performance to stand on it's own as performed by her is showing respect to her, changing it to fit a movie would have been disrespectful. 



#32
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#33
Jacen123

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See for me you guys are just too wrapped up in protecting the OT. Star Wars does have to work as 1 big story, but it also has to function as 3 stories and even 9 stories. The event that really kicks off the ST is the night Ben destroyed Luke's school. That event has to play into the ST, not uphold the OT. That event totally destroys all of these peoples lives. It completely destroys Luke, it rips Han and Leia apart. That's what is great about it. 

 

As for Leia,  I disagree. You have more respect for the character and giving the character a send off than you do the actual human being person who made that character great. Allowing Carrie's performance to stand on it's own as performed by her is showing respect to her, changing it to fit a movie would have been disrespectful. 

 

You may be over generalizing a bit here as to what our thoughts are.  Like you, I really enjoyed TLJ (and TFA before it).  I haven't necessarily done so on here, but I have defended many aspects of the movie to various people.  However, my enjoyment of the ST so far doesn't change the fact that there are things I would have loved to have seen had they decided to go in a different direction.  Likewise, for years, I was a diehard EU reader and read nearly every book that came out.  Eventually, choices were made that I didn't love and would have liked to have seen something different, but I still enjoyed (much) of what I read.  Then, the Disney purchase happened and I knew that what I grew up reading was going to be wiped out from the "official" story.  I was simultaneously gutted and excited to see a new take on the franchise and see it be taken in new directions.

 

I'm actually really glad that Lucasfilm didn't go with some of the early plans that would have focused everything on the OT characters with the new cast just being in more of supporting roles.  That would have possibly made for some solid fan service, but it wouldn't have helped keep the franchise moving along.  Would I have liked to have seen all three of Han, Luke, and Leia on screen together again, even if just for a moment?  Or even a more sustained hint that they would be able to reunite only to have one or more of them die first? Sure!  I also would have preferred it if they had just kept Luke out of TFA altogether (other than perhaps in holograms or flashbacks).  While it created an enticing cliffhanger, I think it was a horrible mistake to have TFA end with Rey finding Luke.  In my eyes, it put too many constraints on the plot for TLJ since they really needed to show the immediate aftermath of Rey finding Luke while finding something else for everyone else to be doing.

 

I am getting a bit off track here, though.  There is a middle ground between giving the OT 3 a happy ending and having their lives be miserable.  I think it could have played better had the movies given us a bit more of an idea that things actually had been good for them for a period of time until that night with Luke and Ben.  Leia told Han that some times were good, but the phrasing of it still made it seem more bad than good.  For Luke, on the other hand, it seemed hard to believe that Ben was among the first students he tried training, despite a large amount of time elapsing, and that he failed in just his first batch of students.  As someone who trains PhD students, it makes perfect sense to me that he would have more trouble right at the start; I know it is easier for me now than it was when I first started.  However, the idea of so many years passing and no new Jedi being successfully trained made it seem as though Luke's life after ROTJ was generally miserable.  The same status quo of no Jedi at the time of TFA starting could have easily been kept with mentioning that a few Jedi were trained by Luke, but they were hunted down by the Knights of Ren prior to TFA.


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#34
Ms. Spam

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Hmmm. As long as they don't do the Leia death like they did Padme - dying of a broken heart. 



#35
The Choc

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See for me you guys are just too wrapped up in protecting the OT. Star Wars does have to work as 1 big story, but it also has to function as 3 stories and even 9 stories. The event that really kicks off the ST is the night Ben destroyed Luke's school. That event has to play into the ST, not uphold the OT. That event totally destroys all of these peoples lives. It completely destroys Luke, it rips Han and Leia apart. That's what is great about it. 

 

As for Leia,  I disagree. You have more respect for the character and giving the character a send off than you do the actual human being person who made that character great. Allowing Carrie's performance to stand on it's own as performed by her is showing respect to her, changing it to fit a movie would have been disrespectful. 

 

You may be over generalizing a bit here as to what our thoughts are.  Like you, I really enjoyed TLJ (and TFA before it).  I haven't necessarily done so on here, but I have defended many aspects of the movie to various people.  However, my enjoyment of the ST so far doesn't change the fact that there are things I would have loved to have seen had they decided to go in a different direction.  Likewise, for years, I was a diehard EU reader and read nearly every book that came out.  Eventually, choices were made that I didn't love and would have liked to have seen something different, but I still enjoyed (much) of what I read.  Then, the Disney purchase happened and I knew that what I grew up reading was going to be wiped out from the "official" story.  I was simultaneously gutted and excited to see a new take on the franchise and see it be taken in new directions.

 

I'm actually really glad that Lucasfilm didn't go with some of the early plans that would have focused everything on the OT characters with the new cast just being in more of supporting roles.  That would have possibly made for some solid fan service, but it wouldn't have helped keep the franchise moving along.  Would I have liked to have seen all three of Han, Luke, and Leia on screen together again, even if just for a moment?  Or even a more sustained hint that they would be able to reunite only to have one or more of them die first? Sure!  I also would have preferred it if they had just kept Luke out of TFA altogether (other than perhaps in holograms or flashbacks).  While it created an enticing cliffhanger, I think it was a horrible mistake to have TFA end with Rey finding Luke.  In my eyes, it put too many constraints on the plot for TLJ since they really needed to show the immediate aftermath of Rey finding Luke while finding something else for everyone else to be doing.

 

I am getting a bit off track here, though.  There is a middle ground between giving the OT 3 a happy ending and having their lives be miserable.  I think it could have played better had the movies given us a bit more of an idea that things actually had been good for them for a period of time until that night with Luke and Ben.  Leia told Han that some times were good, but the phrasing of it still made it seem more bad than good.  For Luke, on the other hand, it seemed hard to believe that Ben was among the first students he tried training, despite a large amount of time elapsing, and that he failed in just his first batch of students.  As someone who trains PhD students, it makes perfect sense to me that he would have more trouble right at the start; I know it is easier for me now than it was when I first started.  However, the idea of so many years passing and no new Jedi being successfully trained made it seem as though Luke's life after ROTJ was generally miserable.  The same status quo of no Jedi at the time of TFA starting could have easily been kept with mentioning that a few Jedi were trained by Luke, but they were hunted down by the Knights of Ren prior to TFA.

 

What you are saying is fair. There were a million different ways they could have gone. Im glad you like the movies. Ofcourse every one of us would have different ways with it we would have liked. As for Luke's failure as a teacher for me it doesn't really matter the timing, all that matters is what happens with Ben. Personally I feel you are being too specific with the story rather than concentrating on what the story is trying to say.

 

As for the general idea of a reunion, its not something I needed. I like bitter sweet stories. For me life is bittersweet. So I love the idea that Luke doesn't get to see Han again. if I wanna see the Big 3 I will watch ANH cause there is nothing possible in the ST that would be as good between them as the scenes on the Death Star from 1977.

 

I think that is somewhat they key difference between what I think and some people. I believe that the OT at this point should be use to make the ST stronger, not that the OT should be honored above all. For me having Luke be like how he was in TLJ makes the ST stronger. It makes the event when Ben turns on him incredibly tragic and strong. Rather than me thinking "oh Luke would never be like this..." I think "wow even Luke Skywalker was totally messed by this, wow!"

 

This is kinda out of order but whatever. You said that they could have shown that they did have happiness  before essentially it got bad again. However I mean you don;t show that. That's boring. You cant have Episode VII: Space Thanksgiving where all the the characters are happy and enjoying themselves. I think we do get a sense of happy times. If you watch TFA it does seem like Han and Leia had happy years together prior to Ben's falling to the dark side. Luke does say that for a while there was balance. 

 

In Star Wars the story is episodic, often with long lapses in the story. You don't want to tell the part where everything is happy. If you wanted a bit more lamenting about the happy times from characters to give us a sense of it, maybe? Would depend on how it was presented. In a way though the ending of ROTJ does this. We see them all happy, the exact length of time this lasts doesn't matter.



#36
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I get what you are saying, too.  Most of what I am commenting about in regards to the portrayal of the OT 3 having unhappy endings isn't really about what I feel, but more about what I have heard many people comment on about the movies.  I don't do this nearly as much as I did when I was in college, partly because I don't have the same people to bounce ideas off and partly due to having less free time, but I like trying to integrate criticisms/comments about the movies into the stories to try to figure out how changes made to address those concerns would ripple into the rest of the story.

 

This gets me right to the heart of what you said about "being too specific with the story rather than concentrating on what the story is trying to say."  I, personally, liked the messages that TLJ was trying to get across, but Star Wars has never been just about the message, but also the specifics of the story.  Those two aspects need to be balanced.  While the series has always been somewhat clunky in certain aspects of the writing, the best movies in the series (in my eyes) have had managed to do a great job with both.  ANH and ESB, specifically, did well at both aspects.  The best part of ROTJ (being the Emperor/Vader/Luke story) did, too.  The prequels focused too much of the specifics of the story and action and clunkily put messages in occasionally.  The sequels have veered more in the other direction, by putting fancy, pretty dressing on the messages without placing much emphasis on the details of the story, and perhaps at the expense of the specifics of the story.  I'm having trouble looking the spinoff films completely in the same way.  Rogue One probably got the balance the best out of all of the Disney movies so far, but it, too, put more emphasis on message over the specifics of the story at times, which led to seemingly strange character behaviors.  Solo leaned more the other direction, with less of an overall message.

 

I don't want to dwell on the PT since its failings are well known and discussed and so many of them seem to rest on the lack of oversight on Lucas.  For the Disney movies, it seems like so many of the problems with the movies could have been solved if they weren't trying to get a new movie out every single year.  Nearly all of the major flaws that I've seen with the new movies seem like they could have been mitigated if there was more time between releases, especially for the Saga films and specifically for TLJ.  I know that Lucasfilm and Disney are in the profit game and I am certainly not a businessman, so they have very different priorities, but I look at what TLJ is and what some more polishing on its story could have done without changing the overall structure, plot, or message of the movie, and I think about how they could have made a movie that may have been significantly less divisive while keeping so much of it intact.

 

Like I said before, though, I've still really enjoyed the new movies.  I love getting to see more Star Wars stories on the movie screen.  I also like thinking about the movies and talking with other people about them and imagining what else could have been while speculating about what comes next.



#37
Lucas1138

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  Han and Luke die empty deaths. 

Honestly, what movies did you watch?



#38
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You cant have Episode VII: Space Thanksgiving 

How about Episode VII: Life Day?


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#39
The Choc

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  Han and Luke die empty deaths. 

Honestly, what movies did you watch?

 

Yeah, I mean Luke shows up to face down his greatest failure, he saves the entire Resistance, all the while doing it in a complete non violent way and in my opinion knew the strain of it would lead to his death. Then not only this but we cut to the kids on Canto Bight who are playing out what just happened on Crait with toys to show that Luke's sacrifice didn't only save the handful of people on the Falcon but that news of it has spread throughout the Galaxy and is now inspiring people throughout the entire Galaxy.

 

I'm not sure his death could have more meaning. 



#40
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I want episode 9 to just be Poe and Finn doing it the entire time and various takes of people ripping up pictures of Luke going "haha that guy ****ing sucks"

That was the tone of TLJ, at least on the Like part.

 

As for Williams coming back? After the Solo disaster, and the way the sequel films have handled OT main characters (well, everyone other than Leia), I doubt anyone cares, and yes, it smells like desperation mode fan service. 



#41
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I want episode 9 to just be Poe and Finn doing it the entire time and various takes of people ripping up pictures of Luke going "haha that guy ****ing sucks"

That was the tone of TLJ, at least on the Like part.

 

 

Yeah, I mean Luke shows up to face down his greatest failure, he saves the entire Resistance, all the while doing it in a complete non violent way and in my opinion knew the strain of it would lead to his death. Then not only this but we cut to the kids on Canto Bight who are playing out what just happened on Crait with toys to show that Luke's sacrifice didn't only save the handful of people on the Falcon but that news of it has spread throughout the Galaxy and is now inspiring people throughout the entire Galaxy.

 

 

 

I'm not sure his death could have more meaning. 

 



#42
The Choc

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I get what you are saying, too.  Most of what I am commenting about in regards to the portrayal of the OT 3 having unhappy endings isn't really about what I feel, but more about what I have heard many people comment on about the movies.  I don't do this nearly as much as I did when I was in college, partly because I don't have the same people to bounce ideas off and partly due to having less free time, but I like trying to integrate criticisms/comments about the movies into the stories to try to figure out how changes made to address those concerns would ripple into the rest of the story.

 

This gets me right to the heart of what you said about "being too specific with the story rather than concentrating on what the story is trying to say."  I, personally, liked the messages that TLJ was trying to get across, but Star Wars has never been just about the message, but also the specifics of the story.  Those two aspects need to be balanced.  While the series has always been somewhat clunky in certain aspects of the writing, the best movies in the series (in my eyes) have had managed to do a great job with both.  ANH and ESB, specifically, did well at both aspects.  The best part of ROTJ (being the Emperor/Vader/Luke story) did, too.  The prequels focused too much of the specifics of the story and action and clunkily put messages in occasionally.  The sequels have veered more in the other direction, by putting fancy, pretty dressing on the messages without placing much emphasis on the details of the story, and perhaps at the expense of the specifics of the story.  I'm having trouble looking the spinoff films completely in the same way.  Rogue One probably got the balance the best out of all of the Disney movies so far, but it, too, put more emphasis on message over the specifics of the story at times, which led to seemingly strange character behaviors.  Solo leaned more the other direction, with less of an overall message.

 

I don't want to dwell on the PT since its failings are well known and discussed and so many of them seem to rest on the lack of oversight on Lucas.  For the Disney movies, it seems like so many of the problems with the movies could have been solved if they weren't trying to get a new movie out every single year.  Nearly all of the major flaws that I've seen with the new movies seem like they could have been mitigated if there was more time between releases, especially for the Saga films and specifically for TLJ.  I know that Lucasfilm and Disney are in the profit game and I am certainly not a businessman, so they have very different priorities, but I look at what TLJ is and what some more polishing on its story could have done without changing the overall structure, plot, or message of the movie, and I think about how they could have made a movie that may have been significantly less divisive while keeping so much of it intact.

 

Like I said before, though, I've still really enjoyed the new movies.  I love getting to see more Star Wars stories on the movie screen.  I also like thinking about the movies and talking with other people about them and imagining what else could have been while speculating about what comes next.

I agree with what you are saying. ANH and ESB are the 2 best movie. I love TLJ but in a way it is frustrating in that I think if a few things were just slightly different that the movie could truly take its place among those 2 great movies. The story just gets a bit clunky in the 2nd quarter of the movie. I was actually going to start a thread of when the charcters go against bad guys who aren't the main bad guys.

 

For instance I'd say the worst part of TFA is the stuff with the rathtars and the gangs. It's not terrible by any stretch but it's probably my least favorite part of the movie. Why not just have a First Order patrol find the Falcon, call it in to Hux's Star Destroyer but Han and company get away before the First Order can arrive in force. You still get your action scene but it feels a bit more pertinent to the story.

 

Same thing applies to TLJ instead of Canto Bight. I'd have preferred something like Rose is a computer hacker rather than a janitor and her and Finn go straight to Snoke's ship and have a much longer adventure on the ship. Instead of Finn seeing the kids suffering and that triggering his commitment to not only escaping the First Order but to actually defeat it maybe have him see some former Trooper buddies being tortured or imprisoned or whatever and that's what triggers him to become committed?ar

 

Now Canto Bight takes longer than the Rathtar stuff but probably not quite as much more as you'd think. Canto Bight is about two 6 minute segments, while I'd say the rathtar/gang stuff is probably one 6 minute segment. 

 

Thing is though through 2 movies my least favorite parts of the ST both deal with the good guys essentially dealing with bad guys who aren't the First Order. I don't think that' a coincidence and it's something that I kinda hope JJ stays away from in IX. 



#43
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Yeah, too much time spent on side quests that don't advance the main in the least.


I hope JJ can stay away from that pitfall. And perhaps if he could answer and close some of the mystery boxes he created in TFA would be good, instead of opening new ones.

#44
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JJ Abrams answering his own mysteries instead of creating new ones? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!
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#45
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How many mysteries are left after TLJ?

#46
Odine

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How many mysteries are left after TLJ?


All of them. TLJ resolved none of the questions posed by TFA, and so they remain.
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#47
Brando

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Snoke's storyline is done, Rey's parentage is resolved, Luke becoming a hermit is resolved.. it may not be what people wanted, but they're all done.

So what's left?

#48
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Knights of Ren, Snoke's origin (ha!), uh... where has Lando been...

Not a lot of unanswered questions but plenty of unfinished arcs. But yeah, I'm kinda with SD on JJs penchant for mystery.
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#49
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Yeah, totally get that.

I don't consider Snoke's origin to be a mystery. We never knew the Emperor's origin in the OT, and only had a very basic knowledge of Vader's. He used to be Anakin and then turned evil. Not sure why people expected more from Snoke or the Knights of Ren. I guess maybe the question of where the Knights of Ren are now, but I wonder if it's similar to Vader being a Dark Lord of the Sith. He wasn't really a Lord over anyone.

JJ isn't good with endings, that's for sure. He was a good choice to start the trilogy, because there aren't many people working today that can start a story as well as he can, but he's not a finisher. But I'm open to being surprised on that.

#50
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Rey's parentage isn't solved. Just cause Kylo said they're nobodies... As if you can trust his word. I mean, I will accept the answer we were given but it is far from satisfactory.

But the biggest mystery left unsolved is the Knights of Ren, all of the stuff in Rey's vision (that could be future) and Snoke.
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