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Here is a sure to be completely wrong prediciton:

 

The Knights of Ren return near the start of the movie. They are unhappy about what has happened to Snoke. Turns out Snoke sent them away on a misson to the far reaches of the Galaxy or another Galaxy, whatever. There is a huge threat gathering out there. It turns out Snoke was actually sent by this threat to pave the way for their arrival. The Knights of Ren are loyal to this new threat and thus unhappy Snoke has been killed.

 

So Kylo knows of this threat now and it's obviously a problem for him, these new bad guys are so powerful even he realizes he needs Rey and the Resistances help. They meet and do indeed join forces and have an initial battle with the new bad guys. It doesn't get well. However they find out that there is some object, knowledge, MacGuffin that can be used ot defeat these new bad guys. Rey and Kylo are close during this time. The Resistance characters go on this adventure to find the MacGuffin while Kylo stays and coninues the war with the new bad guys.

 

The adventure turns into almost like a scavenger hunt from the previous 8 episodes.They eventually find the macguffin. Meanwhile Kylo is holding off the bad guys but sustaining massive losses. Also fighting on the "good" side and his time with Rey has him feeling that draw to the light. He goes into his padded room to ask his grandfather for guidance, however he hears a different voice: The Emperors. The audience is left unsure if it is the Emperor speaking to him from beyond the grave or if it's just Kylo going mad.

 

Finally it comes to a climactic battle with Kylo leading the First Order against these new bad guys, the Resistance returns the MacGuffin. Rey and Kylo team together and in an epic fight defeat the bad guys, they even kiss at the end of it. However Kylo still just wants to seize power for himself so despite their connection, rey is forced to fight him and kill him.

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One thing funny about Star Wars is just how divergent what fans wants to see is. I was reading a trailer piece on TheRinger and they asked several writers to write about "best moment of the trailer" and "worst moment of the trailer." One guy said the very best thing was the Emperor's laugh, another said it was the very worst thing. Neither is right or wrong just funny how 2 fans can have such different views. And also how hard this kinda thing is to pull off for the filmmakers.

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Just curious, what did JJ say that made you think that?

 

For TFA, he talked more than once about how once Luke shows up in the story he steals the show. The new heroes aren't the legend he is, and assuming he's the best Jedi EVAR he'd be over-powered. His solution was to make it a search FOR Luke and not have him until the end.

 

Rian Johnson had the same issue-- how dies Luke not just wave his hand and decimate ATATs? His solution was to disenchant him, and when he DOES reach that uber-Jedi moment, he's doing it by Force Proxy and his body can't handle it.

 

JJ, and the rumor mill, say the MacGuffin for TROS is unexpected and that the heroes don't know what they're looking for until a ways into the story.

 

Then we have the return to the DS2 and a tease of The Emperor.

 

Then Luke saying "nothing ever dies."

 

JJ "rinse and repeat" Abrams can do the same thing TFA and TLJ did-- tease us the Luke we want to see by making the story about building to that at the end.

 

They are after one thing, maybe some sort of Force artifact, to help them against the Knights of Ren (whom I think return and pressure Kylo to getting the helmet back on), and the thing they are looking for they realize The Emperor always had with him-- so that means going to where the Emperor last was-- the Death Star 2 on Endor (you KNOW Wicket is coming).

 

The MacGuffin turns out to be Luke, the game changer. And maybe this thing they are looking for can bring him back.

 

True story, the earliest drafts of ROTJ had Obi-Wan coming back to life to help Luke fight Vader and the Emperor. A later version even had Obi-Wan and Yoda's Force ghosts helping him-- so there's precedent.

 

Now, mind you-- I don't WANt any of this and I hope I am wrong.

 

I can just see it in my head as exactly what JJ would do.

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The MacGuffin turns out to be Luke, the game changer. And maybe this thing they are looking for can bring him back.

 

 

 

Or Anakin...I don't think it will happen but if we're going with this theory, might make more sense. JJ wants to tie the saga together and Anakin was meant to be the Chosen One and according to Lucas, the figurehead of the story. Also worth mentioning that JJ did say he had consulted with Lucas on this instalment as well. Might also explain why Kylo would be after him considering he is obsessed with Vader.

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Just curious, what did JJ say that made you think that?

 

For TFA, he talked more than once about how once Luke shows up in the story he steals the show. The new heroes aren't the legend he is, and assuming he's the best Jedi EVAR he'd be over-powered. His solution was to make it a search FOR Luke and not have him until the end.

 

Rian Johnson had the same issue-- how dies Luke not just wave his hand and decimate ATATs? His solution was to disenchant him, and when he DOES reach that uber-Jedi moment, he's doing it by Force Proxy and his body can't handle it.

 

JJ, and the rumor mill, say the MacGuffin for TROS is unexpected and that the heroes don't know what they're looking for until a ways into the story.

 

Then we have the return to the DS2 and a tease of The Emperor.

 

Then Luke saying "nothing ever dies."

 

JJ "rinse and repeat" Abrams can do the same thing TFA and TLJ did-- tease us the Luke we want to see by making the story about building to that at the end.

 

They are after one thing, maybe some sort of Force artifact, to help them against the Knights of Ren (whom I think return and pressure Kylo to getting the helmet back on), and the thing they are looking for they realize The Emperor always had with him-- so that means going to where the Emperor last was-- the Death Star 2 on Endor (you KNOW Wicket is coming).

 

The MacGuffin turns out to be Luke, the game changer. And maybe this thing they are looking for can bring him back.

 

True story, the earliest drafts of ROTJ had Obi-Wan coming back to life to help Luke fight Vader and the Emperor. A later version even had Obi-Wan and Yoda's Force ghosts helping him-- so there's precedent.

 

Now, mind you-- I don't WANt any of this and I hope I am wrong.

 

I can just see it in my head as exactly what JJ would do.

 

Small quibble, Luke says "no one is ever really gone." Which is exactly what he says to Leia in TLJ. He later says "We will always be with you." I think he is talking about Leia's death, Rey struggling with it and Luke is comforting her.

 

I dn't think they'd go so far as to swerve us with the Emperor's voice and having Ian show up, he will play a role in the movie. We will hear his voice at a minimum. I don't expect him to be the villain or anything like that though.

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I don't get why JJ or any director would feel they're painted into a corner with Luke. I've said it before and I'll say it again. He was a third rate Jedi at best. He was half trained and swung his lightsabre like a baseball bat. He was victorious by convincing Vader to turn, not because he was a great Jedi. How is that an unsolvable writing problem?

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That's just a jaded fan reaction. There is nothing out there, especially not in say the EU or anything else in canon that followed the OT , to imply Luke didn't ascend to greatness.

 

By your POV, Obi-Wan was an old man who couldn't turn circle, and Vader was a clunky oaf. You're letting 80s stunt coordination be trumped in your head by 20 years of PT jumpy flippy stuff, The Matrix, and even Star Wars video games.

 

Narratively speaking, Luke was special and we all know it.

 

If you came out swinging with TFA that said Luke was a chump and did nothing well, no one would have been happy.

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Okay fair enough the swinging like a baseball bat was a cheap shot, but my point is the corollary to yours.

There is nothing in the movies that says he was a powerful Jedi, is there?. He was right about his father. He won. He accomplished something great. But there's nothing in the movies that says he was all that powerful. I would imagine there was plenty in the EU - I have never read a single SW book in my life, but that was all decanonized anyway.

I don't see why people would have had to go bananas if JJ wrote Luke as the last of the Jedi, but one who admits he was never fully trained and there was much he didn't know. What's so wrong with that?

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I have always read Luke beating Vader in the duel as being chalked up to Vader's conflict/not wanting to kill Luke, Vader's old, and Luke momentarily giving in to his anger and using it.

But this is basically "who would win in a fight between Superman and The Hulk" there's no right answer.

 

Anyway, I think Luke's not that great a Jedi and I'm sure I'm in the minority. We can get back to Ep 9 stuff.

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I have always read Luke beating Vader in the duel as being chalked up to Vader's conflict/not wanting to kill Luke, Vader's old, and Luke momentarily giving in to his anger and using it.

But this is basically "who would win in a fight between Superman and The Hulk" there's no right answer.

 

Anyway, I think Luke's not that great a Jedi and I'm sure I'm in the minority. We can get back to Ep 9 stuff.

Training wise, and going strictly by the films, yeah, I think you have a good case to say he wasn't a well trained jedi. TLJ establishes he isn't that great a jedi master, like Obi Wan or Yoda were. But I think raw power and potential, he is on par with Anakin. GL said once in an interview, Luke basically represented the potential Anakin failed to live up to.

 

But you are correct, there is no right answer. It's opinion.

 

There is a right answer....what is his midichlorian count? :D

 

*ducks rotten tomatoes*

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I'm not sure if I would like it if Rey reconstructed the Luke Skywalker lightsaber. It was split into pieces, and was there any indication that she went to pick up the pieces as that ship was going down? I think it works better if she built a replica, but I guess that would depend on how much time there is between TLJ and TROS.

 

I would rather see she busted out Luke's green lightsaber from ROTJ. :D However, I don't know if Luke retrieved it after he threw it aside on Death Star II.

Rey is seen holding the shattered halves of the Skywalker saber on the Falcon after her and Chewie rescue the Resistance on Crait. Luke is seen with his green saber on Endor during the party, and also during the flashbacks where he discovers Ben Solo's power/destiny.

 

I don't get this "she'll adopt the Skywalker name" idea. Why would she do that? What in this series would suggest she would want to do that?

 

If you want to follow the logic of another Star Wars film, she's a Solo

My own personal take on it is that she could take the name as some sort of mantle, almost like the Roman Emperors took the name Caesar. It's less about being a Skywalker as much as it is being the Skywalker.

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I have always read Luke beating Vader in the duel as being chalked up to Vader's conflict/not wanting to kill Luke, Vader's old, and Luke momentarily giving in to his anger and using it.

But this is basically "who would win in a fight between Superman and The Hulk" there's no right answer.

 

Anyway, I think Luke's not that great a Jedi and I'm sure I'm in the minority. We can get back to Ep 9 stuff.

Joseph Campbell was all about the mediocre dude's journey. :rolleyes:

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Anyone notice that the Star Wars font and Rise of Skywalker is in "Emperor Sidious" blue?

 

Makes me think the "Rise" could be Sidious saying to Kylo "Rise, Skywalker" like he used to say "Rise Lord Vader" when Darth was taking a knee.

 

Also how long is this film going to have to be to tie everything up nicely? I agree with Angry Joe its gonna have to be the 3 hour mark at least to satisfy me.

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Joseph Campbell was all about the mediocre dude's journey. :rolleyes:

I'm certainly not equipped to debate Joseph Campbell with you, but does the hero in Campbellian structure have to end up being the most powerful one in the story? I'm not saying Luke isn't the great hero of the OT - he accomplishes a monumental task going from simple farmboy to saving the galaxy and his own father simultaneously against overwhelming odds.

Luke's great strength was in his purity of heart and his unwavering belief in the power of good. I just don't think he would beat Mace Windu or Superman in a fight, that's all I'm saying. Maybe I'm wrong.

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I just don't think he would beat Mace Windu or Superman in a fight, that's all I'm saying. Maybe I'm wrong.

When I watched the OT, I didn't get the impression that Luke was that powerful. Was just how I felt about it. Wrong impression maybe.

 

But I was never that in to Luke anyway, and never understood the cult that had built up around him that made his portrayal in TLJ so unbearable for many. Han Solo was the character I wanted to be, and I think the subsequent of careers of Hamill and Ford reflected that. In retrospect, Hamill was probably miscast.

 

But this who-is-the-most-powerful stuff reminds of arguments about the greatest-of-all-time (the GOAT) in some sports, especially tennis. So in my lifetime, four women have dominated the women's game at various times (Evert, Navratilova, Graf, Williams), but all of have them achieved unique feats and were probably capable of beating any of the others at their peak (although unlikely with Williams because of her sheer athleticism). Thought it was a pointless discussion.

 

Same for Jedi, and the same for circumstances and mental strength / psychology. In tennis people often crumble under pressure, same for internal conflict with Jedi (but it's often over-confidence / hubris).

 

With Luke I always thought his greatest strength was his mind instead of raw power. He'd beat Windu and Superman by outsmarting or manipulating them.

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