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Justice Kennedy Retires, July 31.


227 replies to this topic

#26
Fozzie

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Both sides have always used it when it's suited them, and wanted it to be ignored when it doesn't.



#27
Poe Dameron

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Something I found interesting is the conservative right is starting to skew  the first amendment to be used towards - I dunno how best to describe it - their agenda. While the first amendment has always been a historically democrat/liberal tool its shifting feet and being used more now to strike more judgement like in the gay cake baker request to make it more for the conservatives rulings. 

That's not exactly fair.  Conservative jurists have been strong on the 1st Amendment for a long time.  Scalia and Kennedy joining the majority declaring flag burning protect speech.  Rehnquist penning Hustler's victory over Falwell.  Conservative jurisprudence has set itself up fairly well as protectors of the 1st Amendment.

 

I think it's more a case of the intolerant portions of the left not liking free speech and wanting to limit what is acceptable for people to say and think.  In that way, perhaps things have flipped around a bit.  As much as anti-war protesters were screaming about how people were questioning their patriotism during the Iraq War as a prophylactic from anyone actually doing, it's been conservatives that have been scared to voice their opinion for fear of losing their jobs and social standing lately.

 

The acceptable range of thought is narrowing.

 

As for the cases themselves.  They've been pretty solid I think.  Can't force someone to pay a union that will turn around and use that money to support a political party they don't like?  Makes sense.  Can't force a person to use their artistic skill to celebrate something against their religion?  Works for me.  Can't force a crisis pregnancy center established to provide alternatives to abortion to promote abortion.  Should be obvious.

 

The one that's always amused me has been the hate for Citizen's United.  Of all the things to call the worst Supreme Court decision ever, it's just so strange that a case strengthening the 1st Amendment in its primary purpose (political speech) would be anywhere near the top.



#28
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Are Civics taught in high school anymore? It seems Like no one under the age of 30 seems to understand the first ammendment and cries foul when anybody tells them to shut up.

#29
Poe Dameron

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All the cases this term have dealt with government compelled speech.

 

Though I believe the intolerance on the left to opposing views is really troubling.  It's not "shut up" it's "I'm going to get you fired and make you scared to go home."



#30
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All the cases this term have dealt with government compelled speech.
 
Though I believe the intolerance on the left to opposing views is really troubling.  It's not "shut up" it's "I'm going to get you fired and make you scared to go home."


I don't deny the left is going there, but the right is equally guilty of justifying terrible behavior and claiming amendments.
  • El Chalupacabra +1 this

#31
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I see it now in some political discussions where right wing conservatives are crying that they're being gaslit by democrats. I swear to god people ascribe too much power and influence to politicians though. If they were smart they wouldn't get caught. Plus, really, do these guys think like chess masters?



#32
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I don't deny the left is going there, but the right is equally guilty of justifying terrible behavior and claiming amendments.

 

That's what the 1st Amendment is for, isn't it?  Protection for the "terrible" and, at minimum, keeping the government from using its power restrict it.  I recall you being quite sympathetic to those caught up in the red scare once upon a time.  I recall you being sympathetic to protesters that were called out for illegal behavior fairly recently.

 

And, again, if we're talking about recent court rulings, it has to do with the government enforcing its preferred speech.

 

 

 

Plus, really, do these guys think like chess masters?

 

Yeah, I've always hated the chess master idea.  I think of politics as more of pre-forward pass football.  Every day we line up and there's a huge pileup where we smash into the line and try to move the ball forward just a little bit.  Sometimes a big play is broken.  Sometimes the ball is fumbled and the other team takes it and runs with it.  But the idea that anyone could generate a master plan out of the chaos is ridiculous.  At best it's knowing when to take advantage of an opportunity.

 

Not really sure where the complaints about being gaslit are coming from though.



#33
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Back to the original topic, it looks like Raymond Kethledge is getting a lot of play to go along with Barrett and Kavanaugh.  If the scuttlebutt is correct, Barrett is fading a bit and Kavanaugh's getting some pushback from Cruz and Paul.

 

Those are the three names I keep hearing though with Hardiman occasionally entering the conversation.



#34
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I'll admit you can get stupid stuff like this on both sides, but it's still funny to see how reflexive it all is.  The declaration of racism in a fictional nominee is particularly striking for how meaningless the charge has become.

 



#35
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These gotcha videos ate stupid, and they do go both ways. These students come as scripted reactionary whereas all the ones made at Trump rallies make rural righties out to be uneducated hicks.

I'm sure there's truth in both cases.

#36
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Like I said, it's interesting just how reflexive it is.  The tribalism is strong in our current political climate.

 

Anyway, I just read about five articles that claim inside knowledge of the White House's thoughts.  And, depending on the article, all four of the ones I mentioned above are either the leading contender or have been all but eliminated from contention.

 

Personally, I liked the original two choices of Barrett and Kavanaugh.  They both have the most positives, but in different ways.



#37
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These gotcha videos ate stupid, and they do go both ways. These students come as scripted reactionary whereas all the ones made at Trump rallies make rural righties out to be uneducated hicks.

I'm sure there's truth in both cases.

My question when I watch these is how many people were interviewed. What is the actual percentage of people with these comments versus those who told the guy that Trump hasn't announced the pick yet, or those who just said no comment. Either way it's still shocking that people would put themselves that far out on the ledge when they don't know the facts. I used to think Jay Leno had to be on the sidewalk for hours to get those Jay Walking comments, and others he was probably only there for a little bit before they decided they had enough for the segment.

#38
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As for the pick itself, it will be interesting to see if the nominee gets attacked like Judge Bork did. I'm hoping this will go like the Gorsuch. The world has seemingly turned into the comments section of most news sites.

#39
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Announcement coming soon! EEEEE! will be it be tweeted first with poor grammar at 4 AM in the morning? And then the administration will freak out because it will be no one on their list but some whacko that Trump likes? 



#40
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It's been scheduled for 9pm Eastern for like a week.



#41
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The buzz is that it'll be Kavanaugh right now.



#42
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PLEASE BE SEAN HANNITY!



#43
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PLEASE BE SEAN HANNITY!

You posted that 40 minutes after the nomination happened.



#44
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The sky had already fallen where she lives.

#45
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I was at work. No phones or internet.    :(

 

Looking up stuff about Kavanaugh now. I was going for a lame joke/



#46
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In the end, Trump couldn't have picked a nominee with more establishment cred.  Kavanaugh was easily the judge most likely to be elevated to the Supreme Court by a potential Republican president in 2016 almost regardless of who was doing the choosing.  DC Circuit, long history in Washington, and the leading conservative feeder judge in the last decade.

 

Myself, I'm of two minds.  Kavanaugh has the potential to become the new Scalia, the leading conservative thinker on the court.  That's very important.  The problem is that Roberts was supposed to be that too, and he sometimes lets the concern trolls get to him.  If Kavanaugh joins Roberts in being protective of the institution of the Supreme Court instead of doing his job, he could be a problem.  But if he stands out as another Alito or Gorsuch, he could take over leadership of the conservative wing he could get a lot of stuff done.  Working through Roberts' hesitancy to ends when necessary.

 

Really though, I'm disappointed it wasn't Barrett.  The more I think about it, the more I believe she was the fight we needed to have.  The Democrat bigotry against religion is ugly and needs to be put on full display.  It's disheartening to hear that even with control of the Senate, Trump backed off of her because he was worried she'd have difficulty getting through.  Democrats still get the ghost of a veto (we can thank Roy Moore for that really).



#47
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I follow Dan Rather's News & Guts and someone posted an article about how Trump and Kennedy made a deal. Still discounting it but kinda makes you think...



#48
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What I love is that the Women's March Organization released a statement after the nomination that was clearly a canned response since they forgot to put Cavanaugh's name in it that precreded with an XX. Also outside the White House there were protesters that had signs that said "Stop ________". I mean come on.

#49
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What I love is that the Women's March Organization released a statement after the nomination that was clearly a canned response since they forgot to put Cavanaugh's name in it that precreded with an XX. Also outside the White House there were protesters that had signs that said "Stop ________". I mean come on.

 

And they managed to misspell his name in the place where they remembered to remove one of the placeholders.  It's Kavanaugh, not Cavanaugh.

 

I follow Dan Rather's News & Guts and someone posted an article about how Trump and Kennedy made a deal. Still discounting it but kinda makes you think...

 

Mostly about how Rather managed to not get fired decades earlier for his shoddy reporting.



#50
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If Trump made the deal, I can't imagine there would be so many people leaking stories about who was in the running and what conversations were being held.

But I could see it being a comforting lie to the Trump supporters who are upset with the choice, and for the liberals who desperately want to hate Kennedy.



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