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Star Wars stories done?


68 replies to this topic

#26
Metropolis

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Oh no he didn't!

#27
The Choc

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I actually think it's a bit of a shame how Solo went down. Most people do seem to like the movie. We can discuss the reasons for its disappointing performance all day and I'm sure we will. But I just think if it had done somewhat better, maybe 300 domestic/200 international as opposed to the 200/150 split its going to end up around it would have been a modest success. I realize that's 150 mil more box office worldwide which isn't chicken scratch but I don't think its unreasonable to think that with somewhat different marketing/timing the movie could have achieved those numbers and been a modest hit. At that point it could have spawned one of those franchises within a franchise that doesn't light the world on fire but would be fun, solid movies that made solid box office. I actually somewhat think they could be making a mistake here because as I said the Solo movie is generally liked, when people who decided to not bother in the theaters see it at home they will also mostly like it which could possibly make a sequel more lucrative than Solo.



#28
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1-Marvel has done an amazing job creating franchises within the franchise. Each hero is their own thing and then it comes together for Avengers. Marvel can release 20 movies in 11 years because they arent on Iron Man 20.
 
2-The Avengers movie was always going to do huge business.
 
3-Black Panther had cultural appeal that extended beyond the normal viewing habits of audiences. 


Its actually a lot simpler than that. If you tell great stories well, and those stories are about characters the majority of fans actually give a **** about, it doesn't matter if you release 12 movies a year. They'll all do well.

Lucasfilm ****ed up. Any fool could plainly see Han Solo was about 6 characters down the list of OT characters the vast majority of fans wanted to see a film based around. And now everybody's running around trying to find some other reason for this disaster when the answer is obvious.
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#29
The Choc

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1-Marvel has done an amazing job creating franchises within the franchise. Each hero is their own thing and then it comes together for Avengers. Marvel can release 20 movies in 11 years because they arent on Iron Man 20.
 
2-The Avengers movie was always going to do huge business.
 
3-Black Panther had cultural appeal that extended beyond the normal viewing habits of audiences. 


Its actually a lot simpler than that. If you tell great stories well, and those stories are about characters the majority of fans actually give a **** about, it doesn't matter if you release 12 movies a year. They'll all do well.

Lucasfilm ****ed up. Any fool could plainly see Han Solo was about 6 characters down the list of OT characters the vast majority of fans wanted to see a film based around. And now everybody's running around trying to find some other reason for this disaster when the answer is obvious.

 

I agree in general that it was a poor choice of what movie to make. I don't think anyone is disputing that. What I'm, and others, are saying is that even with that poor choice the movie could have done better had the release and marketing been done differently. Certainly not anywhere near Black Panther but perhaps getting closer to what most Marvel single character movies do which is around 300-350 domestic. 



#30
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Lucasfilm might just need to streamline their spinoffs.

Boba Fett, Lando and Obi-Wan can easily be one god damn epic film.

#31
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Marvel is the exception to the rule, not an example of how annual releases should be able to work for everyone.

It's like saying "my mate who is an incredibly motivated and successful business man smokes a lot of pot, so we should too. It's his secret to success!"
When the reality for most people is smoking a tonne of weed just turnes you into an unmotivated, hungry, dribbling idiot with a foggy mind.

Edited by Odine, 22 June 2018 - 01:42 AM.

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#32
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That's a terrible analogy because you're acting like God came down from the mountain and proclaimed everything Marvel touches turns to gold.

They weren't given their success. They BUILT it. Brick by brick.

Why aren't you asking yourself WHY Marvel is so successful? It wasn't because they sat on their asses and said "This will never work so why even try?"

Lucasfilm could have the same success if they made the smart moves, avoided the dumb moves, and were patient. And most importantly if they learned the correct lessons from failure instead of the knee jerk "Oh well, it must be that we released 2 movies close together! Oh well!"

#33
Odine

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I'd wager Marvel have a much more extensive back catalog of source materiel to be able to churn out annual releases, involving lots of different main characters from different worlds.

 

Marvel have so many different interconnected IP's they can release which still feel like individual films from different realities, which make them somewhat unique to themselves. 

 

Whereas there is only so much you can do in the Star Wars universe back to back before it starts to feel stale. 

 

And here is a caveat: Personally I'm tired as **** of Marvel. I think most of their IP's are tired, generic, formulaic, action/"comedy" romps that don't interest me in the slightest. I don't think Dog came down and handed them success, obviously they worked for it. But it doesn't mean their method will work for the Star Wars brand. Frankly, if Star Wars becomes a new MCU i'd be bitterly disappointed and probably not watch any of them. 

 

Star Wars has the potential to be such a strong IP, it sits up and above everything. And I'm not saying that as a fanboy. If they held back a little, and made sure all their films had the Science Fantasy and wonderment of yesteryear, and released films with a year or two between each release... they could build the hype and smash it every time a new one comes out. Sometimes less really is more. 

Another analogy... its the difference between being an artist who churns out and flogs affordable **** on Etsy for a low value, versus someone who spends considerable time trying to make the best piece they can in every way. Which takes much longer, but lo and behold they get more recognition and respect, and a higher revenue (albeit less frequently) than the former. They are also few and far between.

 

As an IP, Star Wars has that spot where they could be untouchable. Its a shame they want to be like everything else instead of themselves. 

 

 

Anyway.. regardless, I heard that a spokesperson from Disney said the whole scrapping the standalone films was BS anyway and they're still planning on doing it. 


Edited by Odine, 22 June 2018 - 08:16 AM.

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#34
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One benefit that the MCU has over Star Wars is that it's (mostly) linear. Or obvious when it isn't.

People were confused by when R1 fit into the timeline, and it sounds like Solo suffered from the same thing due to the cameo.
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#35
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Everyone knew Solo was not the best idea when they announced it. As someone said, a movie about the criminal underworld with a new main character but with Han, Lando, Fett, Jabba playing parts could work. A movie about Han Solo called "Solo"t is just too on the nose. We are talking about what lessons they should learn from Solo, well if the next standalone movie they are planning is a "Boba Fett" movie then they haven't learned those lessons. I mean let me guess he is going to disintegrate someone. 



#36
Zerimar Nyliram

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I'll summarize a post I made of Facebook today:

My reaction to the cancellations was complete and total apathy. I was not sad, I was not happy; I was simply nothing. I find that funny because before 2014, I would have been ecstatic about any Star Wars news. Everyone knows my reasons for this, so I will not discuss them here. My point is that I was amazed at the fact that I did not care at all, despite the fact that the spin-off films were the only ones I had passing interest in. I am not in favor if these films, nor am I rooting for them to fail: I simply do not care. My reaction was along the lines of, "Oh, that's interesting."



#37
The Choc

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I'll summarize a post I made of Facebook today:

My reaction to the cancellations was complete and total apathy. I was not sad, I was not happy; I was simply nothing. I find that funny because before 2014, I would have been ecstatic about any Star Wars news. Everyone knows my reasons for this, so I will not discuss them here. My point is that I was amazed at the fact that I did not care at all, despite the fact that the spin-off films were the only ones I had passing interest in. I am not in favor if these films, nor am I rooting for them to fail: I simply do not care. My reaction was along the lines of, "Oh, that's interesting."

You care enough to post it on facebook and then summarize the post here. You care to the point that you want other people to know you "don't care". 


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#38
Zerimar Nyliram

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Yes, and there are reasons for that:


1. Facebook is a place to share your feelings.

2. This thread is relevant.



#39
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You have every right to not see the movies but not caring means not caring. If you didn't care then you probably wouldn't even know about this rumor, if you didn't care you wouldn't come post on a SW board on a daily basis. If you didn't care you wouldn't have a thought about it to share.



#40
Zerimar Nyliram

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I did see the movies. Not the numbered trilogy but the spin-offs. I even liked them.

Again, this thread is about reactions to the announcement, and I posted mine. Stop reading into it. It's really as simple as that.



#41
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I was kinda being a dick, I apologize. I like to argue even when there is nothing to argue about. Most people don't, sometimes I need to remember that. Nothing personal meant. 



#42
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Yeah, I know it's Cinemablend, but they are citing ABC News, which is owned by Disney...https://www.cinemabl...pardy-after-all

 

If this is to be believed, seems to me they may still be making spin off movies (hopefully Obi Wan is on the table, I'd be good with a Boba Fett movie, and I would love to see a Vader film), but maybe they are going to take longer breaks.  Which is not a bad thing at all. 



#43
Filthy Jawa

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Right, so here is the ABC article for those too lazy to click in the CinemaBlend article https://abcnews.go.c...ory?id=56057987

Does anyone know the origin of the story that LucasFilm was putting it all on hold? The OP cites Collider....is that it?
I'm just wondering if Disney/LFL did a one-week about-face or if this was only ever just the internet run amok?

#44
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Good question, but collider isn't known for reliability.  They likely posted info from a "leaker" which means they probably much made it up.



#45
Brando

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Pretty sure it was just Collider and people wanting to see Lucasfilm fail, because watching the big guys fail is always fun.

#46
ShadowDog

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I did see the movies. Not the numbered trilogy but the spin-offs. I even liked them.

Again, this thread is about reactions to the announcement, and I posted mine. Stop reading into it. It's really as simple as that.

It's not reading anything into anything. Its basic math.

Don't care = wouldn't bother to post about it regardless of what a thread was about.

Any 4 year old knows that.

You care. You just care to a lesser degree than ever before which you found surprising. Remember the whole thing about using absolutes being a Sith thing? LOL

#47
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Personally I think basically picking a character and then just making a movie about that character is a poor way to go about this. One of the reasons Rogue One worked was because when a casual fan asked the big Star Wars fan "so whats this new one about?" the answer they got sounded interesting and important. If you make a Fett movie and someone asks you "So whats this Boba Fett movie about" the answer is probably going to be "well I guess its about him bounty hunting." I don't need to see him disintegrate someone so I know why Vader told him not to do it. And I don't think anyone else does either.

 

Come up with a cool story, that sounds like it has an important relation to the story already established. If existing characters fit into that story in some way, whether it be a large role, small role, cameo role then great use existing characters. 

 

But to just pick out characters and say "this is what we know about these characters, lets show where it all comes from" thats not interesting. That's not going to get people to see the movie. 


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#48
Odine

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You hit the nail on the head with that last post Choc

#49
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I also was thinking about how many movies they could/should release. I've been in the camp that they could at some point release multiple movies a year. I still think that's true. They key word being "could". If they set out with a goal of releasing a certain number of movies and they say "we have to release one movie a year, no matter what". Thats not a good recipe. Because it would force them to release a movie they don't believe in to keep a schedule. If they don't have any great ideas, its ok to skip a year, hell skip 2 or 3. At the same time if Kathleen Kennedy has talented filmmakers that she believes in coming to her office and pitching great ideas left and right, then don't turn them away because they don't want to release too many movies. 

 

Basically make good movies, if it's 1 a year great, 2 a year great. If it's every other year, fine too. If its 3 in 2022 and then nothing in 23 or 24 cause nothing has come along to their liking, thats cool too.



#50
Zerimar Nyliram

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Personally I think basically picking a character and then just making a movie about that character is a poor way to go about this. One of the reasons Rogue One worked was because when a casual fan asked the big Star Wars fan "so whats this new one about?" the answer they got sounded interesting and important. If you make a Fett movie and someone asks you "So whats this Boba Fett movie about" the answer is probably going to be "well I guess its about him bounty hunting." I don't need to see him disintegrate someone so I know why Vader told him not to do it. And I don't think anyone else does either.

 

I remember one of those pre-Revenge of the Sith theories someone had where they predicted Boba Fett would be featured in the film, and he was going to disintegrate Jar Jar Binks.





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