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The I've Seen Solo Thread (spoilers OBV)


256 replies to this topic

#26
Zerimar Nyliram

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I will never understand why Nightly's formatting makes it so hard to edit quotes.

 

 

 

Loved it! And I hereby declare it to be in full canonicity with the EU! I mean, with blatant references like the Maw, and even the events of Lando Calrissian and the Mindharp of Sharu, it seems to me that this film was clearly an olive branch to EU fans.

 
I think it was more of a thrown bone than an olive branch, based on the fact one of the writers no doubt grew up on the EU knowing what his father had been a part of. Its also the Lucasfilm brain trust forcing the notion of cross-promotion, something Lucas was never interested in outside of things spinning off from the films.

But answer me this, did you like it just because of the Eu nods? Even you admit its not a perfect fit continuity wise, isnt it possible you just liked it cause it was a fun Star Wars movie?



Oh, most definitely. Liking or enjoying the film and accepting its canonicity are two different things. That's what I was hoping to get out of The Force Awakens but it failed to deliver, at least for me. I was open to enjoying it as an apocrypha but was sorely disappointed, which made me completely lose interest in following the post-Jedi films. Make sense?

 

 

 

 

He dropped the title after Sidious/Palpatine abandoned him. In TCW he tried to make a push for power, but was no longer a Sith, despite being a dark-sider. I never cared for the micro-distinctions, but that is why.


Ah, I see. I'm not really a fan of that because I tend to be of the once-a-Sith-always-a-Sith mentality. He had the training and the teachings, and I'm sure the proper Sith would find his existence problematic. But I can understand why Maul himself would no longer identify with the Order.


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#27
Poe Dameron

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Really, the only other bad thing I could say is that while it was fun, and I was engaged, it never truly hit me anywhere emotionally. TFA has the feels. TLJ, as problematic as it is for many reasons, has a strong emotional story. Rogue One manages to build something between Cassian and Jyn that makes you feel for them-- they have drive. Solo was a great ride, but there was nothing ever for me ultimately really care about. At the end of the day, Han's goals were selfish and materialistic. The worst that could happen to him in this movie is that he could die (which we know won't happen) get his heart broken (which happens early on and we know it won't change) and he'd lose out on a payday. While I get the respect paid to the fact that he needs to stay a scoundrel until the end of ANH, without an emotional core to Han, I didn't CARE as much as they wanted me too.. but at least it was fun!

 

Yeah, I've got a bit more of a problem with that.  If the movie had any implied purpose at all, it was to illuminate the character of Han.  He really doesn't need it, but it could work.  Unfortunately, there's absolutely nothing in this movie that makes me understand Han better as a character.  Heck, it makes me understand him less.

 

At the very least, set up why Han would be so reluctant to help the Rebels in ANH.  Hate to bring of the novels, but the Han Solo Trilogy did this a lot better.  Han got roped into helping his love interest on a job for the Rebellion and got royally screwed over by them.  The love interest leaves him (to later go off and die helping to steal the Death Star plans), he and his friends don't get the money they were promised because it was going for a higher purpose, and Han's reputation in the smuggling community (including Lando who was among the swindled) was wrecked, forcing him to work for Jabba.

 

So, Han's justifiably of the mind of "Screw these Rebels and their high-minded hypocritical bull****" when dealing with Leia.

 

Say what you will about the book's quality.  That synopsis alone does a much better job of setting Han up for ANH than Han happily helping Rebels before and it turning out just peachy.  I mean, he lost his ex-girlfriend, but he barely even reacted to that.  He didn't get the money, but it was because he's just that nice of a guy and donated it.  It didn't even take much persuading and it's not like there was doom happening if he didn't help these people.  Han is just an altruistic person.

 

How do you square that with the Han that happily took his reward money from the Rebels in ANH and was all prepared to leave even though the stakes were a crapload higher?  This movie brings up more questions than it does answers, because the Han at the end of Solo would have gone all-in in helping the Rebellion without much prompting.  Some girl takes off her helmet, gives a very broad sob story, and he's in.  Let's just take down a crime syndicate.  He showed more reluctance to help in TFA for goodness sake.

 

And, again, we're denied Han even getting burned for rescuing Chewbacca.

 

So now we have to make up our own idea of what happened between the movies to make Han the way he was when we first met him in the cantina scene and kick off his major character arc for the entire Trilogy.

 

That's just one aspect.  I understand that it's a basic movie at heart.  I'm fine with that.  But there's no real exploration going on here.  Nothing about Qi'ra tells me much about his relationship with Leia.  What's the twisted nature of Lando's relationship with Han that puts him on both sides with the guy?  Setting these things up really wouldn't have been all that difficult, but for whatever reason, they just ignored what would be the only real purpose in the exercise.

 

I don't get it.

 

 

 

-Han. Recasting for a younger version of a known character has been practiced for decades. Be it for a prequel, or a flashback, and yet for some reason, people seemed to just absolutely lose their minds over Alden being cast as a young Han. I think they either just WANTED to be mad, or they think that Ingruber dude being able to do a great impression means he can carry a movie. Looking at Alden, I buy him as a young Harrison Ford more than I do River Phoenix. He got the mannerisms down, he looked the part, he was fine. Was he the best actor OMG ever, no-- but I wouldn't expect that in a SW movie. I never questioned him as Han.

 

Pretty much agree on that.  He was fine, especially when it came to the goofy charm of early-Han that sometimes get forgotten by fans.

 

 

 

-Lando-- because come on. He was perfect.

 

You knew he was going to be, and nothing in there contradicted it.  Easily the best casting job of the Disney era.

 

 

 

One, because it was always a Dune eastern egg, and two, because I assume spice is basically drugs

 

Fair enough I suppose.  Though, I will add an extra ding to the movie for not having the balls to portray Han in a negative light at all.

 

 

 

I hope every fanbro crybaby that thinks that the new SW have a political agenda gets their dainty feelings hurt, and walks away from fandom. We dont need them and theyre poopheads.

 

It'd be easier to ignore them if their complaints weren't legit some of the most problematic aspects of the the movies.  Holdo and Canto Bight were not well thought-out or executed.  Rey's power level remains problematical.

 

L3 is never wreck whole sections of the movie bad, and amusing enough at her most bat**** crazy.  She's not going to age well though, that's for sure.

 

Kinda odd to see Lando running out to hold her as she died though.  That was the one bit where I thought Lando was out of character.



#28
captainbleh

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I don't think that L3 was a success. I was more relieved instead of upset when she died.
 
They may have been trying to explore the gender bias that can lead to assertiveness in men and women being perceived differently (by both men and women), something that I know I suffer from*, and make her explicitly forceful in order to trigger that (biased) response, but it ended up being a caricature or played for laughs. Needed to be more subtle.
 
I also thought there was a design issue with the lack of a face which didn't help (liked the weird gait though). Her voice felt disembodied at times.

 

*I had to ask myself, "if L3 was a male character, would I find them less annoying?"



#29
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We saw it yesterday.

 

* I thought it was too predictable.  That's a Titanic Phenomenon, unfortunately.  You know the ship hits an iceberg at the end and sinks, so you have to make everything up to that interesting.  I'm not sure they did so well at that.  It was a foregone conclusion that Qi'ra would end up betraying him at the end, with only the question of whether it would be before or after Woody betrays him.  

* Yes, that was indeed Lando name-checking his book adventures in Lando Calrissian and the Mindharp of Sharu, Lando Calrissian and the Flamewind of Osseon and Lando Calrissian and the StarCave of ThonBoka.

 

Nevertheless, I have to agree that he stole the show right from under Solo.  The ego.  The vanity.  The Lando Chronicles.  Oy, the capes.

 

* I didn't care anything about the angry, nagging L3.  But I sure missed the mutli-limbed pilot that died too soon.

 

* Han remembers his Dad!  Well, that's certainly different.  And did anyone else wish that he'd come up with the Solo name rather than some Imperial bureaucrat?

 

* The Maul thing didn't get ruined for me so that was a huge surprise.  It suddenly threw me out of the movie when I forgot which time period we were dealing with.

 

* Oh, yeah, and throwaway lines about Aurra Sing.  Nobody cares!


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#30
captainbleh

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But I sure missed the mutli-limbed pilot that died too soon

Fans are probably writing stuff about Beckett's gang already, but I don't think there's enough there for a Solo prequel. Rio (the pilot) was great.



#31
Poe Dameron

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It was a foregone conclusion that Qi'ra would end up betraying him at the end, with only the question of whether it would be before or after Woody betrays him.

Well she could have died too.

 

I've heard that elsewhere and I don't quite understand it.  Taken altogether, Qi'ra was as faithful to Han as she could be and stuck her neck out for him three times.  She didn't betray Han to Vos when she could have, which could well have led to her forfeiting her life.  She joins Han in the fight, an action that, if discovered, would lead to her death.  And finally she covers for Han by lying to a former Sith openly brandishing his lightsaber about his involvement.

 

The only things that can be considered "betrayal" are things that she had no control over.   When she offers to kill Han to prove her loyalty she believed Han was already dead and was looking for a way to save herself.  That's somewhat cold, but not betrayal.  And when she doesn't go with Han, she's not going against him, just acknowledging that she can't leave the life.  L3 had pretty much confirmed that earlier in the movie when she noted Qi'ra's tattoo.

 

All things considered, I suspect that Qi'ra would have wanted to go with Han, but she realized that they'd be tracked down and killed if they both disappeared.  The only option she had was to stay within the organization and the only help she could provide to Han was to keep his name out of her report on the matter.  A disappointment to Han to be sure, but not betrayal.

 

Now, I'm not sure how to square that with the fact that Han then proceeded to brag to anyone who would listen that he made the Kessel Run in 12 parsecs for the next 40 years, which should ruin Qi'ra's hopes to keep the matter quiet.  But, hey, movie I guess.



#32
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Crimson Dawn sounds like an Islamic terrorist group from an 80s-90s Schwarzenegger or Stallone movie.
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#33
El Chalupacabra

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Wolverines!


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#34
Poe Dameron

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Crimson Dawn sounds like an Islamic terrorist group from an 80s-90s Schwarzenegger or Stallone movie.

My mind immediately leaped to the other 80s staple, Red Dawn.



#35
Zerimar Nyliram

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Hey, Poe, did you see my link? I had especially you and Mara in mind. Joe has updated it with a graph. Let me know what you think!
 

 

* Han remembers his Dad!  Well, that's certainly different.  And did anyone else wish that he'd come up with the Solo name rather than some Imperial bureaucrat?

I think he's making up the dad bit out of embarrassment. And I think the imperial made a lucky guess and ended up calling by his actual surname, which explains the look on Han's face.

Seriously, it's all in the link!



#36
The Choc

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The Han remembering his dad and saying they bad a relationship plays up what happened with Han and his own son. 



#37
Poe Dameron

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Hey, Poe, did you see my link? I had especially you and Mara in mind. Joe has updated it with a graph. Let me know what you think!
 

I saw it.  I can't say that I have much desire to score a film based on how I can twist things around to fit a dead continuity even if I don't like that they killed it.  It might make a decent logic puzzle, but that's about it.

 

I will never understand why Nightly's formatting makes it so hard to edit quotes.

 

Just manually type in the codes.  It's a lot easier that way.



#38
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Question to the board:  Does anyone see where the $250 million went?  I know they had to re-shoot a lot, so that's a solid chunk of change, but even for that the actual movie looked to be easily be the least ambitious Star Wars movie of the CGI age.



#39
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They re-shot close to 80% of the movie from what I have heard. That's a lot of the price tag right there. They also had to recast Vos completely, Lord and Miller would have been given a hefty payout to walk away without causing trouble with the DGA and/or fandom, and it seems like there was very little location work outside of the beach scenes, which means a lot of sets.

I don't think they ever expected it to turn a profit. Star Wars is immune to the usual profit vs cost model that could kill any other movie. For Disney, with all the merchandising, theme park tie-ins, and future releases in mind, continued brand awareness and expose is key. That said, I think the take for Solo is still lower than expected even if a profit wasn't in the cards. I don't think it means anything bad for the future, Marvel had early disappointments with Hulk and IM2, but they stayed the course.

It also didn't help that it;s only been 5 months since TLJ came along. Now we have 19 months before we get anything else.

#40
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I felt it wasnt horrible or amazing, somewhere right in the fun and forget about range. Easily rewatchable with the kids, type thing. At least it doesnt break a plot before or after its setting.

As for NuSolo himself, it took about ten minutes for me to be okay with it. Just okay though. If you have seen the Young Indiana Jones Chronicles then this feels like whatever episode it was for you when you thought... Okay, this is a younger Indy. I wouldnt mind seeing more NuSolo and I defininitely want to see more Lando.

#41
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I will be taking my parents to see it tomorrow, for my second viewing. Right now, I am in the midsts of a movie marathon. I started with The Phantom Menace last night, watched Attack of the Clones and Tartakovsky's Clone Wars today (I won't be watching Filoni's shows because it'd take forever), and will watch Revenge of the Sith tomorrow before taking my folks to Solo. Then I will follow up over the next few days with Rogue OneA New Hope, the Holiday Special, The Empire Strikes BackEwoks: Caravan of Courage, Ewoks: Battle For Endor, and then finally ending with Return of the Jedi.

I'm trying to watch two films a day up to and including Memorial Day, after which I go back to work and probably will only be able to watch one a day. A younger, more ambitious me would have taken a day off, stayed up all night and watched the whole thing in one sitting, but present me has not the time nor energy.



#42
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I don't think they ever expected it to turn a profit. Star Wars is immune to the usual profit vs cost model that could kill any other movie. For Disney, with all the merchandising, theme park tie-ins, and future releases in mind, continued brand awareness and expose is key. That said, I think the take for Solo is still lower than expected even if a profit wasn't in the cards.

 

I think you're downplaying how bad this is.  The domestic take is bad, but worldwide, it really is a disaster.  Only $65 million came in internationally for its opening weekend where it opened in every major market except Japan.  That sets it out to have a lower international take than movies like the latest Tomb Raider, Maze Runner, and Pacific Rim movies.  There's not a way to sugarcoat that, it is simply awful.  This movie will be lucky to crack $400 million.  That would likely place it outside the Top 25 movies this year.

 

To put into perspective, it's not going to catch Rampage.  That's basically a movie sold on The Rock and an 80s arcade game.  It might well fall below The Mummy, a movie that did poorly enough that Universal has likely shuttered its whole "Dark Universe" plan.

 

Justice League is going to outperform it by a few hundred million.

 

This is going to create negative brand awareness.  The words "bomb" and Star Wars have never been uttered in the same breath by anyone except a hater.  So even the idea that they're just keeping the gravy train running doesn't work.

 

I won't belabor the point, we all know what went wrong:  Concept nobody asked for.  Wrong directors hired and chaos on the set.  Stubbornly refusing to push back the opening (wonder if rushing post-production added to the budget).  Meh marketing.

 

Thank goodness the movie was okay.  Imagine if it actually was terrible?  Or even just polarizing?

 

I'm not in the whole "fire Kathleen Kennedy" crowd.  I don't know if the next guy is going to be any better.  But this needs to be a wakeup call that she seriously needs to get her act together and come up with a coherent plan.  You bring up Marvel, but it may turn out to be that only The Incredible Hulk ends up with a lower box office.  Star Wars has effectively burned through the good will that came with TFA relaunching the franchise.

 

At the very least, instead of staying the course, there should be some serious reconsidering of their direction.  Marvel always felt like it was building to something bigger.  I see the opposite here.


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#43
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I think what you said about the movie being good is the key though. Most people like this movie, I'd expect that the people who are choosing to not go to theaters but will eventually see it at home will for the most part also like it. That's important, obviously.

 

Lucasfilm needs to change the overall thought process of Star Wars. It's not longer 3 movies at a time seperated by a few years that come out once a generation. That created almost a false sense of importance. They need people to look at it more like "hey if I go see a Star Wars movie chances are 2+ hours later I will leave the theater happy." I think this movie accomplished that. 



#44
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This is all because TLJ sucked, and frankly I find it hilarious. Like so many I assumed TLJ would be good, but after I saw it I realized I had been duped by a company that preys on nostalgia. Member berries all the way.

Solo has proven that you can no longer put out a movie and expect people to see it just because it's Star Wars. I'm sure it's decent, but certainly not the kind of film you would expect from a company that was supposed to wash the bad taste the PT left in our mouths.

I love the excuse that it came out too soon after TLJ. Truth is that if TLJ was half as good as it was supposed to be people would've come out in droves for Solo.

The arrogance of Disney has become so great that they've actually driven away Star Wars fans, a fan base so loyal that they kept coming back even after TPM. Just take a second to think of how big of a failure that is.

As for where SW goes from here, I don't think the future is bright. I'm sure there are people who will eat S(J)W stuff up, but certainly not to the level that they were expecting.

#45
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Yeah, it's good, and I think people to become less fixated on SW movies as an event, but they still might need Ant-Man levels of return / profitability at least. I read Tank's post as meaning they knew were in damage / loss limitation territory after they realized how much making Solo 2.0 was going to cost, and that having a good unprofitable movie was better than having a bad one. I hope things pick-up / word-of-mouth etc. because there's some must-see stuff in it, but I'm not optimistic.



#46
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I don't think they ever expected it to turn a profit. Star Wars is immune to the usual profit vs cost model that could kill any other movie. For Disney, with all the merchandising, theme park tie-ins, and future releases in mind, continued brand awareness and expose is key. That said, I think the take for Solo is still lower than expected even if a profit wasn't in the cards.

 
I think you're downplaying how bad this is.  The domestic take is bad, but worldwide, it really is a disaster.  Only $65 million came in internationally for its opening weekend where it opened in every major market except Japan.  That sets it out to have a lower international take than movies like the latest Tomb Raider, Maze Runner, and Pacific Rim movies.  There's not a way to sugarcoat that, it is simply awful.  This movie will be lucky to crack $400 million.  That would likely place it outside the Top 25 movies this year.
 
To put into perspective, it's not going to catch Rampage.  That's basically a movie sold on The Rock and an 80s arcade game.  It might well fall below The Mummy, a movie that did poorly enough that Universal has likely shuttered its whole "Dark Universe" plan.
 
Justice League is going to outperform it by a few hundred million.
 
This is going to create negative brand awareness.  The words "bomb" and Star Wars have never been uttered in the same breath by anyone except a hater.  So even the idea that they're just keeping the gravy train running doesn't work.


I'm not downplaying it. I'm not saying they don't carte and it doesn't matter-- they do, and it does... but it's not going to change their immediate plans for the future. That's not how giant franchises work when they have the amount of cross-platform content. A failure at the box office-- yes. But keeping the brand in the public eye is goal number one because of the shared/passive revenue streams. You can't compare it to Dark Universe which was just starting and basically had no purchase int he world. Star Wars is EVERYWHERE.

So in this case, they aren't happy, but it changes nothing.

That said, if Episode 9 and the Fett movie follow suit, then they'll be re-thining things.
 
 

I won't belabor the point, we all know what went wrong:  Concept nobody asked for.  Wrong directors hired and chaos on the set.  Stubbornly refusing to push back the opening (wonder if rushing post-production added to the budget).  Meh marketing.


Can't argue that.
 

At the very least, instead of staying the course, there should be some serious reconsidering of their direction.  Marvel always felt like it was building to something bigger.  I see the opposite here.


Can't argue that either-- I think they should change direction (see below) but they won't until they have more evidence their current plan is a failure, and one low-performing movie that was already in the hole isn't enough evidence.
 
 

Lucasfilm needs to change the overall thought process of Star Wars. It's not longer 3 movies at a time seperated by a few years that come out once a generation. That created almost a false sense of importance. They need people to look at it more like "hey if I go see a Star Wars movie chances are 2+ hours later I will leave the theater happy." I think this movie accomplished that.


I totally agree. Star Wars films used to be an event, and it's no coincidence that the ones with the strongest openings, the OT, TPM and TFA, all came with massive anticipation. Recasting a character and shooting out their movie 6 months after the most polarizing film in the franchise since AOTC? Bad idea.

Here's a couple ideas:

1. Instead of Star Wars being the brand to push, LUCASFILM should be the brand. Instead of trying to emulate Marvel, emulate Pixar. They have Indy. They have Willow. They could easily start another mini-franchise. Instead of being the Star wars company, be like Amblin in the 80s. Instead of nonstop Star Wars movies, mix it up, so when when does come along it feels special.

2. Smaller budgets. Instead of making $200m+ epics that must make it or break it, make smaller, cheaper films where ingenuity is cultivated and new talent can experiment-- like the original Star Wars.

But I doubt either of these will happen as long Disney is looking to milk their investment.

 

I love the excuse that it came out too soon after TLJ. Truth is that if TLJ was half as good as it was supposed to be people would've come out in droves for Solo.


You literally contradict yourself in two sentences.
 

The arrogance of Disney has become so great that they've actually driven away Star Wars fans, a fan base so loyal that they kept coming back even after TPM. Just take a second to think of how big of a failure that is.

As for where SW goes from here, I don't think the future is bright. I'm sure there are people who will eat S(J)W stuff up, but certainly not to the level that they were expecting.


You know what's hilarious? At the three different websites I post on to talk Star Wars, there's always guys like you. They always talk about SJWs, and "just making movies," and "pandering," and somehow, magically, they always seem to be politically conservative, personally insult people who dare disagree with them, and eventually get banned because they just can't stop themselves from saying the most deplorable things possible when people ignore them.
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#47
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I think people are making way to big a deal about this one failure. I personally will never see the movie because Han Solo is my least favorite character from the OT. It boggles my mind they made a Han Solo movie before an OB1 movie which wouldn't have even required recasting.

Same placement after TLJ, same false claims that TLJ sucked, same firing of directors and 80% reshoots ... if everything else had been the same I'd have watched the hell out of an OB1 movie. The HELL. I doubt I'm alone in that.

They picked the wrong character. They'll be fine when they do someone else. No reason for a bunch of changes in philosophy.

#48
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I think the best thing for SW would be to have a stand alone Finn movie.

#49
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You joke but getting a closeup look at a Stormtrooper academy might be dope

#50
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You joke but getting a closeup look at a Stormtrooper academy might be dope

Complete with John Williams' score. Solo showed us the Empire uses its own theme song in their ads.

Other quick thoughts:

-Lando was really just a card cheat?

-The Kessel Run was confusing. Couldn't really tell what was going on. The giant squid thing that got sucked into the gravity well reminded me of the hyperspace whales from Rebels. But I'm guessing it wasn't supposed to be the same creature?

-Han got his name from an imperial officer just making stuff up to put on his computer?



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