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Lando Is Pansexual


Tank
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Absurd. Show me quotes or you're just throwing out generalizing apples vs oranges comments. I can play that game too. Everybody that said Poe and Finn couldn't be gay because AGENDA doesn't accept Lando as anything straight because PANDERING and are the same racists and homophobes who cry whenever a gender or race is changed on a pre-existing character. See! Generalizations are fun!

I'm not doing your homework for you, but I'll point you to the endless YouTube videos over-analyzing Finn/Rey in the wake of TFA's release. Read the comments to those videos dated not long after the videos were posted. Others may not know racism when its standing in front of them, but I do, and for anyone to go on and on about the reasons Finn and Rey are so "wrong" for each other (when a potential romance was one of TFA's subplots) yet argue in favor of Finn and Poe being a romantic couple, or force Rey with the resident murderer is the age-old "not with the black guy" argument. ...and yes, that comes from those who are identified themselves as progressive based on the fact they were all for Finn hooking up with Poe.

 

That says one thing: Finn is fine in a gay relationship, but with the star white woman? Ohhh no.

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Oh, they're doing more than trying to be progressive (as the left defines it), its a full on campaign. I do find it sickening that some of the same left-leaning-to-the-point-of-falling Star Wars fans that were damn close to being violently opposed to the implied romantic connection between Finn and Rey are all for Lando loving the equivalent of a talking upright vacuum cleaner. The takeaway being that sticking a black man with a GoBot is more acceptable than a black man romantically involved with a white woman.

Absurd. Show me quotes or you're just throwing out generalizing apples vs oranges comments. I can play that game too. Everybody that said Poe and Finn couldn't be gay because AGENDA doesn't accept Lando as anything straight because PANDERING and are the same racists and homophobes who cry whenever a gender or race is changed on a pre-existing character. See! Generalizations are fun!

It's all marketing, guys. Including the OUTRAGE that you'll get on whatever blog or forum you get it on, however you ship the characters or whatever sexual identity or orientation you give them. Ship Finn and Poe, and conservative sites - think Red State, Breitbart or the like, will cry AGENDA, as Tank puts it, because that's the red meat the readers of those sites go for, so that's what the sites offer. Ship Rey and any male character, and it's the same game except with the Mary Sue or HuffPost crying WIMMIN IN FRIGERATERS, etc. "Oh my Gawd! How can they undermine a strong female lead like that? What kind of message is that sending our young girlz?" Or it would be homophobic because they didn't ship Poe and Finn. Oddly, Poe would be the better choice to pair off with Rey because then outlets like the Root can cry RACISM because a white man was chosen over a black one. They had the chance to portray an interracial couple, but instead ... the whole SW franchise is like one horrible long Klan rally, dammit! Again, you give the readership the red meat they crave. Which is outrage, which is the world is coming to an end. Which is jackboots coming to crush the last vestiges of our rights and freedoms because a film franchise didn't represent their particular demographic in just the right way.

 

Moreover, for every group of perpetually outraged netizens, an equal and opposite group gets outraged about the same things in the opposite direction. Ship Rey and Finn, and the SW franchise is further evidence of how (((Hollywood))) is promoting white genocide, etc. Sometimes somebody goes too far, and too many people get too deeply offended. Well, a blogger or writer can get thrown under the bus, no problem. What matters is the additional exposure the whole fiasco generates going into the opening weekend. The important thing is that cheap clickbaity social media outrage sites get lots of shares, lots of clicks and that's what the advertisers like to see, and the studios don't really mind the controversy since bad attention is better than none at all, usually. That's what really drives stuff like this.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

 

Oh, they're doing more than trying to be progressive (as the left defines it), its a full on campaign. I do find it sickening that some of the same left-leaning-to-the-point-of-falling Star Wars fans that were damn close to being violently opposed to the implied romantic connection between Finn and Rey are all for Lando loving the equivalent of a talking upright vacuum cleaner. The takeaway being that sticking a black man with a GoBot is more acceptable than a black man romantically involved with a white woman.

Absurd. Show me quotes or you're just throwing out generalizing apples vs oranges comments. I can play that game too. Everybody that said Poe and Finn couldn't be gay because AGENDA doesn't accept Lando as anything straight because PANDERING and are the same racists and homophobes who cry whenever a gender or race is changed on a pre-existing character. See! Generalizations are fun!

It's all marketing, guys. Including the OUTRAGE that you'll get on whatever blog or forum you get it on, however you ship the characters or whatever sexual identity or orientation you give them. Ship Finn and Poe, and conservative sites - think Red State, Breitbart or the like, will cry AGENDA, as Tank puts it, because that's the red meat the readers of those sites go for, so that's what the sites offer. Ship Rey and any male character, and it's the same game except with the Mary Sue or HuffPost crying WIMMIN IN FRIGERATERS, etc. "Oh my Gawd! How can they undermine a strong female lead like that? What kind of message is that sending our young girlz?" Or it would be homophobic because they didn't ship Poe and Finn. Oddly, Poe would be the better choice to pair off with Rey because then outlets like the Root can cry RACISM because a white man was chosen over a black one. They had the chance to portray an interracial couple, but instead ... the whole SW franchise is like one horrible long Klan rally, dammit! Again, you give the readership the red meat they crave. Which is outrage, which is the world is coming to an end. Which is jackboots coming to crush the last vestiges of our rights and freedoms because a film franchise didn't represent their particular demographic in just the right way.

 

Moreover, for every group of perpetually outraged netizens, an equal and opposite group gets outraged about the same things in the opposite direction. Ship Rey and Finn, and the SW franchise is further evidence of how (((Hollywood))) is promoting white genocide, etc. Sometimes somebody goes too far, and too many people get too deeply offended. Well, a blogger or writer can get thrown under the bus, no problem. What matters is the additional exposure the whole fiasco generates going into the opening weekend. The important thing is that cheap clickbaity social media outrage sites get lots of shares, lots of clicks and that's what the advertisers like to see, and the studios don't really mind the controversy since bad attention is better than none at all, usually. That's what really drives stuff like this.

 

This is one of the main reasons I am starting to just not care about Star Wars. It used to be fun. It used to be something I looked forward to. Now it is politicized on both sides of the political spectrum. Add to that crappy writing for TLJ and being underwhelmed with Solo (to be fair, it isn't horrible, just BLAH! Giant vampire millipede crime bosses and droid rights, indeed!), the fact I am skeptical Episode 9 will be any better, and the fact that I have zero interest in Star Wars Resistance. At this point, I really don't care what happens with Episode 9, and while I have long said I wanted an Obi Wan movie, I now feel I would rather it not to be made, out of fear that they will really eff it up. Prior to last December, I thought I would NEVER feel that way. Now, I wouldn't care if Star Wars, as a franchise, just disappeared.

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So you don't enjoy it because it is "political"? Everything is political, though. By defining the Empire as the "bad guys" and the Rebels/Resistance as the "good guys", Star Wars' creators make a political statement. It can't be avoided. Complaining about it is pointless.

 

Sorry to say it, Chalup, but you may just be aging out of fandom in general. For the younger ones whose first exposure to Star Wars is the Clone Wars cartoon, these new installments of films, books, and cartoons are fresh and interesting. They're not deliberately aimed at you. Soon you'll be shaking your cane at kids telling them to get off yer lawn.

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Also, I think you missed Kurgan's point: all of this 'political' stuff is external to the films. In other words, it's only political if you argue about it on the internet.

Anyone complaining that someone is shoving an agenda down their throats is making a choice to view it that way. They're shoving a film down your throat (or rather, you're paying to go have it shoved down your throat). If that film has certain moralities, they're probably just part of the world we live in. Welcome to the 21st Century everyone.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

So you don't enjoy it because it is "political"? Everything is political, though. By defining the Empire as the "bad guys" and the Rebels/Resistance as the "good guys", Star Wars' creators make a political statement. It can't be avoided. Complaining about it is pointless.

 

Sorry to say it, Chalup, but you may just be aging out of fandom in general. For the younger ones whose first exposure to Star Wars is the Clone Wars cartoon, these new installments of films, books, and cartoons are fresh and interesting. They're not deliberately aimed at you. Soon you'll be shaking your cane at kids telling them to get off yer lawn.

The politics in the movies by themselves, to a point, yes. When I drop $20 on Star Wars, I go to escape the world for 2 hours. I don't want to be hit over the head with political messages in a Star Wars movie. There are more than enough other movies where that is appropriate (and where I enjoy it), but I don't want to see that in Star Wars the way LFL under Disney has handled it. Say what you will about him, but at least Lucas largely steered clear of that type of stuff in his Star Wars movies. But that issue alone not enough to bother me to the point of apathy about Star Wars.

 

What I think is a bigger issue is what I find to be poor writing, I do not like the direction TLJ took the Episode films, and Solo was better, but like I said, not enough to change my opinion about Disney LFL.

 

But what is turning me off the most are fans and other parties that argue about the films. It's all the back and forth I see on youtube, in articles, social media, or on message boards (on both sides politically). Star Wars discussions are fast becoming like RevRoswell Lyceum posts, and I've had enough of it.

 

To your last point of aging out of Star Wars, I think you are correct. Film has changed a lot in just the last 10 years. Change is inevitable. Unfortunately, I think Star Wars has not changed for the better, though. It is definitely not as nuanced (IMHO), and focuses too much on flash, and not enough on story. I am not saying Star Wars, even the first one, was ever Shakespeare but the modern incarnation is inferior. It is really a sad state of affairs when a Star Wars video game like KOTOR has a better plot and is more entertaining than a movie that has the full force of LFL and Disney behind it, like TLJ, or Solo for that matter. Hell, the Thrawn trilogy is better than those two.

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So you don't enjoy it because it is "political"? Everything is political, though. By defining the Empire as the "bad guys" and the Rebels/Resistance as the "good guys", Star Wars' creators make a political statement. It can't be avoided. Complaining about it is pointless.

 

Sorry to say it, Chalup, but you may just be aging out of fandom in general. For the younger ones whose first exposure to Star Wars is the Clone Wars cartoon, these new installments of films, books, and cartoons are fresh and interesting. They're not deliberately aimed at you. Soon you'll be shaking your cane at kids telling them to get off yer lawn.

The politics in the movies by themselves, to a point, yes. When I drop $20 on Star Wars, I go to escape the world for 2 hours. I don't want to be hit over the head with political messages in a Star Wars movie. There are more than enough other movies where that is appropriate (and where I enjoy it), but I don't want to see that in Star Wars the way LFL under Disney has handled it. Say what you will about him, but at least Lucas largely steered clear of that type of stuff in his Star Wars movies.

 

 

Seriously have you ever watched the prequels? There is without a doubt more political messages in those movies than anything in the Disney films and they were definitely not subtle. You can't rag on Disney for being political and then Lucas a free pass, it's hypocritical.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

Site some examples, then.

 

If you are referring to the Galactic Senate gridlock and Trade Federation stuff, that is so general, it can apply to anything, and is more philosophical and non partisan. It was a commentary on bloated governments and the rise of tyranny. What inspired that, was historical events and nations like Rome, and Nazi Germany. Political elements in modern Star Wars is more about partisan and identity politics.

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So you don't enjoy it because it is "political"? Everything is political, though. By defining the Empire as the "bad guys" and the Rebels/Resistance as the "good guys", Star Wars' creators make a political statement. It can't be avoided. Complaining about it is pointless.

 

This postmodernist line of reasoning is abused far too often, IMO. From academia to artistic criticism, the reality that politics is hard, if not impossible, to get away from is then taken as a license to beat people over the head with propaganda and not even try to present the kinds of subtle and nuanced commentary that really does make people think. I'm not saying SW has to be some deep philosophical political treatise, but Disney, Lucasfilm and even Hollywood as a whole should have some respect for their viewers and refrain from using their studios as a bully pulpit for their trendy hashtag politics. It's putting a lot of people off their already worn out and threadbare franchises. The trick is to allude to contemporary controversies less (as these tend to date the work) and deeper, more enduring themes more. The original SW worked because its political themes literally went back to Plato's Republic, and resurface again and again throughout history. Identifying Lando as pansexual doesn't work because the issue it addresses is rooted squarely in 2010s sexual, identity and social justice politics. People will one day look back on that and cringe in the same way many today look back on the flagrant cold war themes of 1950s sci-fi and cringe. It doesn't age well because it's about a cultural fad, not deep and enduring questions about human nature.

 

Also, I think you missed Kurgan's point: all of this 'political' stuff is external to the films. In other words, it's only political if you argue about it on the internet.

Anyone complaining that someone is shoving an agenda down their throats is making a choice to view it that way. They're shoving a film down your throat (or rather, you're paying to go have it shoved down your throat). If that film has certain moralities, they're probably just part of the world we live in. Welcome to the 21st Century everyone.

 

It's not so much that the politics aren't there in the films. It's that today we have entire cottage industries of blogs, social media personalities, YouTubers and so on whose shtick is to feed divisive, demagogic, paranoid politics to their loyal legions of fans. Because of how big a franchise SW is, they're bound to get swept up into these manufactured online controversies. Even if the writers went out of their way to be completely apolitical - and I think we'd be shocked at how difficult to relate to such a film would be as it would have to intentionally avoid social themes that resonate with people, I think we could safely say that intentional apoliticism is a political statement unto itself - public demand would insure that some sinister agenda or another would be read into the films, and stories suggesting such would be commercially successful on the internet.

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Site some examples, then.

 

If you are referring to the Galactic Senate gridlock and Trade Federation stuff, that is so general, it can apply to anything, and is more philosophical and non partisan. It was a commentary on bloated governments and the rise of tyranny. What inspired that, was historical events and nations like Rome, and Nazi Germany. Political elements in modern Star Wars is more about partisan and identity politics.

See, I just don't see the identity politics or really anything that political about these new films at all. You're right, the politics in the prequels was more philosophical but I wouldn't in anyway say it was non partisan. The Bush & Iraq war was happening around the time of RoTS was released and Lucas wasn't exactly quiet about the influence that had on the film, or where he stood politically. His commentary was inspired by historical events and nations as much as it was by modern events and he has gone on the record as such.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

Fair enough, but I don't agree with you at all. But I am not saying you are wrong, either. This all just comes down to interpretation of the viewer.

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You can't see the obvious and totally out of place anti-animal cruelty messages in TLJ? It was distracting and on the nose, and it wasn't interwoven into the story at all. It was distracting and pointless. It shouldn't have been there. In fact, the same could be said for the entire sequence. Like the social commentary within, it was forced, pointless, and contributed absolutely nothing to the story. It was irrelevant and exists for the sole purpose to exist.

 

Having some social commentary is fine in SW so long as it's done I a subtle clever way, and is compatible wth the story. TLJ did none of this. If felt shoe-horned in...but without any real purpose or reason...OTHER than it was like a requirement by Lucasfilm or something, and RJ couldn't figure out how to work it in.

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Identifying Lando as pansexual doesn't work because the issue it addresses is rooted squarely in 2010s sexual, identity and social justice politics. People will one day look back on that and cringe in the same way many today look back on the flagrant cold war themes of 1950s sci-fi and cringe. It doesn't age well because it's about a cultural fad, not deep and enduring questions about human nature.

Or you could be completely wrong.

 

One, Lando's sexual orientation isn't really plot relevant, but it does make sense for the character's established nature. Two, non-binary sexuality isn't going away and it's not a cultural fad. Three, the nature of existence is an enduring question, and the character L3-37 addresses the issue of non-human rights, and that can be discussed endlessly.

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Good to see Kurgan back and totally on form.

 

Identity politics totally is a current cultural fad. Whether it goes away or not remains to be seen, but everyone is desperate to be someone or something "special" in the modern world. Lando's sexual identity being a thing is tied completely to this current point in time.

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Guest Robin

Hate to ruin your world view, gentlemen, but these types of gender identities and preferences etc have existed, maybe literally but said figuratively, forever. It is just that in the past anyone different was hit on the head with a stone...

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