Jump to content

Welcome to Nightly.Net
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Was Luke about to kill himself


53 replies to this topic

#1
The Choc

The Choc

    Member

  • Members
  • 8,699 posts

When we first saw Luke in TFA was he about to kill himself and Rey showing up prevented it?

 

He is standing in his Jedi robes on the edge of a cliff and Rey shows up. He takes the saber, throws it over his shoulder. He immediately walks away and goes into his hut. The first thing he seemingly does when going into his hut is take off his Jedi robes and change into the brown sorta raggy clothes he wears most of the rest of the movie. Not only that but he seems to put his Jedi robes away with great care.

 

The next time we see him wearing his Jedi robes is when he is about to burn down the tree and the books. He tells Yoda "Im going to end all of this". Well just burning down the tree won't end it, not if Luke is still alive. The Jed religion would still be alive within in.

 

My thinking is this, Luke was going to kill himself when Rey showed up. He was again going to kill himself when Yoda's ghost showed up. The Jedi robes represent what Luke wants to be remembered as, the good Luke so to speak. He puts those robes on to die in. 



#2
Metropolis

Metropolis

    Member

  • Members
  • 13,755 posts
No he wasn't.

#3
Kyrian

Kyrian

    I'm back

  • Members
  • 11,266 posts

I read an article earlier that espoused this exact theory. It's a compelling argument. I'd be interested in seeing what Rian Johnson has to say about it.


  • Odine +1 this

#4
El Chalupacabra

El Chalupacabra

    Member

  • Supporters
  • 8,004 posts

No, but Mark Hammil was probably about ready to throw Rian Johnson off the cliff, after he read the script.  


  • Odine +1 this

#5
Poe Dameron

Poe Dameron

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,239 posts

Not my interpretation, but not completely unfathomable as a take.



#6
El Chalupacabra

El Chalupacabra

    Member

  • Supporters
  • 8,004 posts

Yeah there is no love lost between Hamill and Johnson.



#7
Odine

Odine

    Member

  • Supporters
  • 1,881 posts
If that was the intention they would've made it a little more explicit. Blockbuster Hollywood movies don't leave anything to interpretation or imagination. If Luke were trying to kill himself there would've been dialogue or something directly about it.

I like the idea though.
  • El Chalupacabra +1 this

#8
Poe Dameron

Poe Dameron

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,239 posts
If that was the intention they would've made it a little more explicit. Blockbuster Hollywood movies don't leave anything to interpretation or imagination.

 

They do if the subject matter is controversial enough to keep it under the radar.  This would certainly qualify.  Could be Johnson's idea to slip something past the audience and maybe even his bosses like Kennedy who likely wouldn't approve an overt suicide reference for Luke, or could just be a decision made by the wardrobe department.

 

You can file this in the same drawer as my suggestion that the Luke/Kylo sexual abuse allegory theory.  It might well be the intention, or it could be a coincidence.  Without Johnson himself clearing it up, we'll likely never know.



#9
Odine

Odine

    Member

  • Supporters
  • 1,881 posts

 I don't think Disney would touch the suicide theme with a 50 ft pole. Or the Sexual abuse theme. 

But as you say, you can read anything into a film if you're actively looking for it.

 

Like evidence to suggest George Lucas is racist. 

 

Or Jabba's palace is an allegory for modern decadence (I made that up)

 

Or Kylo was sexually abused and/or drug addict

 

Or Luke was trying to commit suicide. 

 

Or Snoke = Plageus

 

Or Naboo = Dagobah. 


  • El Chalupacabra +1 this

#10
The Choc

The Choc

    Member

  • Members
  • 8,699 posts

I'm not saying that this is  factual really, Im saying that maybe in the background for "flavor".

 

But really Luke does say that he went to that island to die. Now at face value that just means he meant to go to the island and just never leave.

 

Look at when he goes to burn down the tree though. He says "Im going to end all of this". How would burning down the tree and some books end it? As far as we can tell the Jedi have existed for 1,000 generations without them going back to reference those old books. Burning those books doesn't end the Jedi religion any more than burning the original Constitution would end the USA. As long as Luke is there to potentially pass on his knowledge the Jedi religion is still alive. Also look at Luke's state of mind there. He's had his greatest failure just thrown in his face which was really just part of another failure with Rey leaving. He'd be in a pretty bad place.

 

Most important though is the costumes. What Luke is wearing isn't a decision made with no thought. It's not like JOhnson would say to Mark "hey, just throw on whatever costume you want for shooting today." We see Luke in his Jedi robes twice. Once while standing on the edge of a cliff and once while he is about to set a fire while saying "Im going to end all of this." In between we see him very carefully put these robes away. The idea of someone putting on a uniform right before they know they are going to die or are likely to die after they've done something they are ashamed of we've seen in movies many times. I can think of a few off the top of my head. The Captain does it i in Titanic and Matthew Modines character in Dark Knight Rises.

 

The fact that Luke wears those robes in those 2 scenes and unless Im mistaken only those 2 scenes means something. Am I sure it's meant to signal that he wants to die in his nice robes as a proud Jedi? No, Im not sure  but I don't think its far fetched and it's probably even likely. 



#11
The Choc

The Choc

    Member

  • Members
  • 8,699 posts

Let's not forget that a couple characters actually do commit suicide in this, Rose's sister during the opening battle and Holdo during her hyperspace kamikaze run. Also Finn is trying to commit suicide before Rose prevents it.

 

Finally in my mind Luke DOES commit suicide at the end of the movie. He knew that projecting himself across the galaxy would end in his death and he does it anyway, while wearing those pretty Jedi robes. 

 

Early in the movie when Kylo and Rey have their first Force connection, Kylo believe Rey is doing what Luke does at the end of the movie. It's why he asks her if she can see his surroundings and mentions that he can't see hers. He then says "this isn't you, the effort would kill you." Which you can take to mean that Rey isn't powerful enough to do it and thus it would kill her, or you can take it to mean that projecting yourself like that would kill anyone who tried to do it. So at this point it's kinda a mystery as to how this connection is happening. Later we find out Snoke did it which makes us think "oh ok Snoke is powerful enough to do something that would kill Rey." Which seemingly ends the story thread. 

 

In reality though it's all to set up Luke at the end of the movie. Kylo says that the effort would kill Rey, it means it would kill ANYONE. So when Luke sends his projection across the Galaxy to save the day he knew it would result in his death. 

 

So really when you look at it we see Luke in his robes at the start of the movie standing on the edge of a cliff. We see him middle of the movie in those robes about to burn down a tree while saying "Im going to end all of this." Then at the end of the movie he is wearing those robes and does in fact do something that leads to his death.

 

In the end Luke not only was about to kill himself HE ACTUALLY DOES KILL HIMSELF. 


  • Odine +1 this

#12
Tank

Tank

    Driver

  • Members
  • 33,842 posts

Yeah there is no love lost between Hamill and Johnson.


Feel like that is a take engineered angry butthurt fanboys!
  • pavonis and Darth Krawlie +1 this

#13
pavonis

pavonis

    Member

  • Members
  • 6,897 posts

Luke wasn't suicidal at the beginning of TLJ.  He was probably just watching the approach of the Falcon

 

Luke had been isolated for years already when Rey showed up. If he had wanted to die, he had plenty of time while alone. If he had recently become despondent just before Rey showed up, what had changed for him while alone with the porgs, turtle-nuns and green-milk monsters?

 

Did Luke know that projecting himself across lightyears would definitely kill him? Kylo said that Rey would die from the effort, but does that mean it is always fatal? 



#14
The Choc

The Choc

    Member

  • Members
  • 8,699 posts

Luke wasn't suicidal at the beginning of TLJ.  He was probably just watching the approach of the Falcon

 

Luke had been isolated for year already when Rey showed up. If he had wanted to die, he had plenty of time while alone. If he had recently become despondent just before Rey showed up, what had changed for him while alone with the porgs, turtle-nuns and green-milk monsters?

 

Did Luke know that projecting himself across lightyears would definitely kill him? Kylo said that Rey would die from the effort, but does that mean it is always fatal? 

I don't think Luke was watching the approach of the Falcon, he seems genuinely surprised when he is told that Rey and Chewie arrived on the Falcon. 

 

As for what could change to make that the moment he decided to kill himself? Who knows? He went to that island and that temple for answers. Maybe he spent years studying the texts and meditating thinking he'd find some answer as to how to fix things or some solace. After years he finaly realizes that those answers can't be found in those books, so he gives up.

 

As for if Luke knew that sending the projection would kill him, there is no way to know for sure but I think he does. I mean why else put the line in there from Kylo that the effort would kill Rey. It's foreshadowing. 



#15
The Choc

The Choc

    Member

  • Members
  • 8,699 posts

 

Yeah there is no love lost between Hamill and Johnson.


Feel like that is a take engineered angry butthurt fanboys!

 

Yeah, I mean we will never know Hamill's real opinion of what Johnson did with Luke. I think Mark's official stance is he didn't like it at first but eventually was at least somewhat won over. But I think on a personal level Mark has expressed an affinity to Johnson and seems to genuinely like him. 



#16
Metropolis

Metropolis

    Member

  • Members
  • 13,755 posts
There is a huge difference between sacrificing oneself and commiting suicide. He's hiding because he feels in some part that the Jedi were the problem in the galaxy. He thinks that going into exile will prevent future generations from getting trained. Now that people know what planet he is on he is going to burn the books just in case Kylo Ten or anyone else comes looking.

#17
Robin

Robin

    zambingo

  • Members
  • 481 posts
I think its possible Mark became a bit dismayed over some of the response to the film. Perhaps because some of that response is similar to his own initial reaction in regards to who Luke is. However even if that lines up, that does not require that he dislikes Johnson as a creative or a person.

As for Luke on Waterworld, he appeared to be trapped in a vicious circular thought. Look what I did. Look what Force users do. Thats not a definitive. Isnt once enough? I cant do this. The Force goes on regardless of me. Look what I did...

#18
El Chalupacabra

El Chalupacabra

    Member

  • Supporters
  • 8,004 posts

 

Yeah there is no love lost between Hamill and Johnson.


Feel like that is a take engineered angry butthurt fanboys!

 

Hamill has said publicly he wasn't a fan of Rian Johnson's direction, though.   



#19
pavonis

pavonis

    Member

  • Members
  • 6,897 posts

That's a professional disagreement, then, not a personal one. 



#20
Tank

Tank

    Driver

  • Members
  • 33,842 posts
You need to put all his comments into context.

He fully admits to hating the direction for Luke at first. The he says he realized it was his job to be the actor. He and Rian locked horns, but ultimately they came to understand each other, and Hamill delivered on the performance. There's a DOC with the TLJ release (probably a little slanted given it's made by Lucasfilm). Ultimately Hamill came to understand and respect the direction Rian wanted to go, it just wasn't his first choice.

He's talked on different points of this at different times and every other youtube fanboy loves to just cut to the part that supports their rant.
  • pavonis +1 this

#21
The Choc

The Choc

    Member

  • Members
  • 8,699 posts

"I regret voicing my doubts and insecurities in public. Creative differences are a common element of any project but usually remain private. All I wanted was to make a good movie. I got more than that, Rian Johnson made an all time great one."-Mark Hamill



#22
The Choc

The Choc

    Member

  • Members
  • 8,699 posts

When Mark was first told of the sequels he basically was like "awesome! Carrie, Harrison and I can run around the Death Star again and have fun!!" Then the TFA comes out and he is in one scene. He stated he disagreed with this at the time. He said he thought him and Leia should arrive on Starkiller Base to help save the day. But ok JJ says no, Luke is in one scene in the movie.

 

He then figures ok now VIII is my time to shine. And although he is in the movie much more he's not running around and shooting his blaster and blowing up Death Stars. He basically stays on an island and is a curmudgeon. 

 

Mark wanted to run around again, he the hero, have fun. He gets 1 scene with Carrie, none with Harrison. It was disappointing to him and hard to accept. Which is fine and what you'd expect. 

 

But if you watch that doc Tank mentioned you can see a closeness between the two of them. WHen Rian tells Mark the title of the movie Mark responds like a little kid "The Last Jedi? Thats me!!!" and Rian is like "yeah buddy it is". 

 

Also I loved on that doc the part where Mark is just hanging around the Canto Bight set. Luke isn't in those scenes, he's just there to be a part of it all. He loves making these movies so much he is just hanging out on the side when they are shooting another part of the movie. 


  • Jacen123 +1 this

#23
El Chalupacabra

El Chalupacabra

    Member

  • Supporters
  • 8,004 posts

You need to put all his comments into context.

He fully admits to hating the direction for Luke at first. The he says he realized it was his job to be the actor. He and Rian locked horns, but ultimately they came to understand each other, and Hamill delivered on the performance. There's a DOC with the TLJ release (probably a little slanted given it's made by Lucasfilm). Ultimately Hamill came to understand and respect the direction Rian wanted to go, it just wasn't his first choice.

He's talked on different points of this at different times and every other youtube fanboy loves to just cut to the part that supports their rant.

First off, I agree there are youtubers that are batch*t insane over TLJ.  I'm not one of those, and I think they are ridiculous.  

 

Second of all, when I said MH wanted to through RJ off the cliff, I was kidding. 

 

But I think personally that MH is the best consultant there ever was for assisting with deciding the direction of Luke's story.   Perhaps even more than George Lucas.  It was absolutely foolish for RJ to ignore that, and considering how much ownership MH took for the Luke character, I think he was completely justified in being frustrated and critical of RJ.  And while MH is a professional, he also has a right to his opinions.

 

As to walking back his statements of dissatisfaction, there is no way for us outsiders to know for sure, but it is a reasonable assumption to believe that he walked back his statements because LFL\Disney had a sit down with him, and told him to cool it and be more positive.  Since the BR release, MH has walked back the walk back somewhat, and has even stated he doesn't have any interest in any more Star Wars films.  That is very unfortunate, and to me, at least, indicates he is disillusioned with the current direction of Star Wars.  


  • Tank +1 this

#24
The Choc

The Choc

    Member

  • Members
  • 8,699 posts

He just tweeted recently teasing a possible return in IX. 



#25
Tank

Tank

    Driver

  • Members
  • 33,842 posts
That last statement IS pretty damning...



Reply to this topic