Cobra Kai

[The Choc 1,615]

One thing I always try to do with shows or movies I like is to think "why do I like this" and then as long as the show keeps doing those things Im usually good. For instance Tank brought up Breaking Bad before and if something like that happened on Bad it would really hurt the show. One of the many things that made that show so so great is the tightness and the very very low suspension of disbelief. So a coincidence like that would destroy alot of that.

Thats not the case here. One of the things this show does so well that makes it great is stick to its themes, as Tank also said. So the idea of Daniel doing something good 30+ years ago, with no reason to hope for personal benefit, and then for that to save his business works thematically. Thats why the coincidence of it doesnt hurt the show.

[Lord Darth Hunter 228]

The return to Okinawa episodes brought back the same feelings I had when originally watching the KK movies back in the 80's. In KK2 Daniel had a fight to the death. After something like that, you figure he'd have a sense of perspective, which is why I thought it was dumb for him to come back home and be deathly afraid of the Johnny Lawrence clone wanting to fight him for points in a California tournament in KK3. Dude, seriously? Chozen was going to literally kill you.

If not for the Okinawa episodes, this show almost plays like the sequels never happened. 

[Darth Krawlie 5,859]

I never saw any of the movies besides the first, so I’m glad they did the flashbacks. Only just got to the Okinawa episodes last night.

[Metropolis 723]

1 hour ago, Lord Darth Hunter said:

The return to Okinawa episodes brought back the same feelings I had when originally watching the KK movies back in the 80's. In KK2 Daniel had a fight to the death. After something like that, you figure he'd have a sense of perspective, which is why I thought it was dumb for him to come back home and be deathly afraid of the Johnny Lawrence clone wanting to fight him for points in a California tournament in KK3. Dude, seriously? Chozen was going to literally kill you.

If not for the Okinawa episodes, this show almost plays like the sequels never happened. 

The scenario we'll never have answered. Could Johnny have beaten Mike Barnes? Probably not. Barnes was in the cover of national magazines. The actor that played Barnes before the beginning of last season said he'd love to do Cobra Kai, but he didn't see where he would fit into the story.

The thing that I was relieved about with the Okinawa scenes was that they didn't play up a Daniel-Kumiko relationship. His marriage was really strained near the end of season 2. They thankfully never went there. Amanda was a standing by her man this season. 

[Metropolis 723]

1 hour ago, Darth Krawlie said:

I never saw any of the movies besides the first, so I’m glad they did the flashbacks. Only just got to the Okinawa episodes last night.

It would be hyperbole to call KK2 the ESB of the series. Especially since KK3 isn't in ROTJ's level. Though it does hold up over time. 

[Lord Darth Hunter 228]

1 hour ago, Metropolis said:

The scenario we'll never have answered. Could Johnny have beaten Mike Barnes? Probably not. Barnes was in the cover of national magazines. The actor that played Barnes before the beginning of last season said he'd love to do Cobra Kai, but he didn't see where he would fit into the story.

The thing that I was relieved about with the Okinawa scenes was that they didn't play up a Daniel-Kumiko relationship. His marriage was really strained near the end of season 2. They thankfully never went there. Amanda was a standing by her man this season. 

Or could Johnny have beaten Chozen back then?

[Metropolis 723]

No. Daniel was fighting for a woman and future Tomi Village KFC's.

[Hobbes 211]

I was looking up the cast and discovered Ralph Macchio (now 59) is older than Pat Morita was (then 52) when Karate Kid came out. 

 

 

[Darth Krawlie 5,859]

Yeah when he crossed that threshold several years back, I was really angry that was allowed to happen.

[Metropolis 723]

1 hour ago, Hobbes said:

I was looking up the cast and discovered Ralph Macchio (now 59) is older than Pat Morita was (then 52) when Karate Kid came out. 

 

 

Daniel brings up the exact sentiment to Kumiko.

[Hobbes 211]

1 hour ago, Metropolis said:

Daniel brings up the exact sentiment to Kumiko.

I haven't got that far....just finishing season 2.  

 

 

[Metropolis 723]

Spoiler!

[Darth Krawlie 5,859]

Just finished the season. Man what a goofy ass show. Rolled my eyes a lot but I definitely enjoyed it—I could tell by how tense I was when Johnny and Kreese finally fought. I felt like there was a little too much of the bad guys always winning and wanted a little more pay off at the end for the good guys, but that was because I didn’t realize there’s gonna be another season. I like Hawk’s face turn a bit more than you guys but Robby turning heel is one of my least favorite bits.

[Dark Wader 230]

Just binged the whole series last couple of weeks and Krawlie sums up my feelings on all of it. Watching it one hit I actually started to think Hawk’s turn was almost overdue. Didn’t feel as much a GoT/Daenerys situation at any rate. 

Really looking forward to where it goes in S4 - is it meant to be the last season or considered ongoing? 

[Fozzie 6,861]

3 hours ago, Dark Wader said:

Just binged the whole series last couple of weeks and Krawlie sums up my feelings on all of it. Watching it one hit I actually started to think Hawk’s turn was almost overdue. Didn’t feel as much a GoT/Daenerys situation at any rate. 

Really looking forward to where it goes in S4 - is it meant to be the last season or considered ongoing? 

My biggest problem with Hawk is that they never really showed him having any doubts, and then suddenly he’s attacking the people he’s with. On the other hand, teenagers are full of big displays of change. Kinda like when he became Hawk.

And season 4 is not intended to be the final season:

https://www.thrillist.com/entertainment/nation/cobra-kai-season-4-release-date-cast-news

[Darth Krawlie 5,859]

A few times they showed it, though. It started when Kreese brought in more kids and Hawk didn't like it. He didn't like Robby joining specifically. Kreese started pushing shit a little further and he looked doubtful. He very clearly hesitated before breaking Demetri's arm and showed a lot of remorse for it. You might've missed it because there wasn't a ton of it, but I saw it at least 3-4 times this season.

[Lord Darth Hunter 228]

Agreed, those signs were there to show he was going to turn. I was glad that he did. What didn't work for me was that he turned midfight. He shows up leading the Cobra Kai invasion once again. They start kicking the crap out of the Miyagido/Eagle Fang crew. When he sees his side is winning, he decides it's time to turn against the Cobra Kai.  I would've preferred if he hadn't shown up with Cobra Kai and walked in later to help the other side. Or if he did show with Cobra Kai at least show hesitance once the fight starts. Maybe he pulls back and only defends himself when attacked instead of just going full blast into it like he did. 

[Darth Krawlie 5,859]

Agreed, that definitely would have been better. Also it was pretty dumb that as soon as he switched sides, suddenly all the no-name Cobra Kais JUST KNEW and attacked him immediately, even though they weren't in the room when it happened.

[Dark Wader 230]

19 hours ago, Darth Krawlie said:

A few times they showed it, though. It started when Kreese brought in more kids and Hawk didn't like it. He didn't like Robby joining specifically. Kreese started pushing shit a little further and he looked doubtful. He very clearly hesitated before breaking Demetri's arm and showed a lot of remorse for it. You might've missed it because there wasn't a ton of it, but I saw it at least 3-4 times this season.

Some of it blends together cause I watched all of them at once, but there were even some small bits towards the end of the second season you see the start of it, when he is chatting to Demetri about Dr. Who. But the main scene I think was when Johnny came to the school and told him he was the one who made him who he is today. There was the fake out at the end with Kreese but what Johnny said resonated with him and I think that was the push. 

19 hours ago, Fozzie said:

And season 4 is not intended to be the final season:

https://www.thrillist.com/entertainment/nation/cobra-kai-season-4-release-date-cast-news

Great to hear - fingers crossed it’s popularity saves it from a Netflix cut post S4. (If they want to continue to the story that is). 

[D-Ray Kenobi 365]

This latest season didn't jump the shark for me, but it skipped across some other fishes.

I certainly loved a lot more than I hated.  Doing a soft retcon of Karate Kid 2 was brilliant, giving Kreese a backstory was really cool, and I love how the arcs of most of the kids are progressing.  Hawk went from an annoying side character to having my favorite subplot.

But then a lot else is just getting to be too much.  Kreese sending in snakes or the kids attacking the Larusso house should call for pressed charges and lawsuits.  That bit where they went to the police office and she found out she already had a restraining order was some weak hand waving of that big plot hole.

That dumb stuff is still forgivable though.   This show walks a fine line of being cheap and cheezy but still being fun enough to get away with it.  But if it pushes that stuff more in the next season, it might be a little too far.

[The Choc 1,615]

You have to suspend your disbelief a little bit with that kind of stuff. I mean Dimitri gets his arm broken and evidently there are zero consequences. 

[Hobbes 211]

19 hours ago, The Choc said:

You have to suspend your disbelief a little bit with that kind of stuff. I mean Dimitri gets his arm broken and evidently there are zero consequences. 

I had a huge problem with that.  There is a line that Samantha told her mom, "If you had been paying attention you would know Karate is not the problem" (or something like that).  Well, it kinda is.  When Demetri got has arm broke, it was Sam and Demetri and others that went to jump a member by himself at work.  They were the aggressors.  Eli came to help his friend.  

[Fozzie 6,861]

On 1/20/2021 at 2:53 PM, Hobbes said:

When Demetri got has arm broke, it was Sam and Demetri and others that went to jump a member by himself at work.

Did you actually watch the show? Because that isn't what happened at all. The Cobra Kais attacked Chris (the black kid in Miyagi-Do) at work and stole stuff. Sam and co. then come to help. Yes, the fight was over by that point, but the attackers were still at Chris's work. The Miyagi-Do students didn't jump anyone. They walked in to a fair fight and announced it. 

[Hobbes 211]

On 1/24/2021 at 12:21 PM, Fozzie said:

Did you actually watch the show? Because that isn't what happened at all. The Cobra Kais attacked Chris (the black kid in Miyagi-Do) at work and stole stuff. Sam and co. then come to help. Yes, the fight was over by that point, but the attackers were still at Chris's work. The Miyagi-Do students didn't jump anyone. They walked in to a fair fight and announced it. 

You are right.  I get confused about which kid is on what team.  But they went there to fight.  Not call the cops or even security.  Yeah, Cobra Kai stole stuff...and it wasn't even personal stuff...it was stuff that belonged to the booth.   Miyagi-Do is not law enforcement...defense only.  Someone you don't like stealing a teddy bear or whatever from your place of employment is not defense.  

I think I am just frustrated that the show continually has Miyagi Do as the instigators and the acceptability of non-stop revenge.  

[Fozzie 6,861]

22 hours ago, Hobbes said:

You are right.  I get confused about which kid is on what team.  But they went there to fight.  Not call the cops or even security.  Yeah, Cobra Kai stole stuff...and it wasn't even personal stuff...it was stuff that belonged to the booth.   Miyagi-Do is not law enforcement...defense only.  Someone you don't like stealing a teddy bear or whatever from your place of employment is not defense.  

I think I am just frustrated that the show continually has Miyagi Do as the instigators and the acceptability of non-stop revenge.  

I hear you on the aggression. I’ve rewatched the original films recently and Daniel is never the aggressor after the beach fight in the original. And even then, he’s coming to Alli’s defense. Other than that, he only fights when forced, and even then he tries to avoid it. 

But, at the same time, there are plenty of opportunities for the police to be involved but they aren’t. In Part 3, the police laugh at Daniel when he reports the damage to the business. They also almost kill Daniel and Non-Love Interest, and threaten to rape her. All that happens is Daniel wins the tournament by confusing Barnes. The authorities don’t care in this universe.

And the other part is, teenagers are stupid. If the same thing had happened to one of my friends with a group of our high school enemies, there would’ve been a big fight instead of calling the police. Because teenagers are stupid and don’t think of consequences. But Mr. Miyagi wouldn’t have accepted it from Daniel and Daniel shouldn’t be accepting it. Nor should any other parents.

But another major theme in the show and movies is that a bad teacher creates a bad student. It happened with Johnny and Chozen (Chozen is really a pretty sympathetic character for a psychopath, when you consider his uncle:mentor). It happened with Cobra Kai before Johnny started to soften up. And it’s also happening with Miyagi-Do. Daniel isn’t focused, and has had his head stuck in revenge fantasies between himself and Johnny. I really hope that them teaming up will increase the level of discipline and decency.