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The entire PT should have been ROTS


The Choc
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I think Lucas was going for something like this. That's why you have those lines sprinkled throughout, like Padme telling Anakin, "have you ever stopped to think that maybe we're fighting on the wrong side?" Which sets off Anakin accusing her of sounding like a Separatist. Or the Council worrying that they'll have to take control of the Senate for a peaceful transition once they depose the Chancellor. Lucas just didn't follow it through if that's what he wanted.

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I think Lucas was going for something like this. That's why you have those lines sprinkled throughout, like Padme telling Anakin, "have you ever stopped to think that maybe we're fighting on the wrong side?" Which sets off Anakin accusing her of sounding like a Separatist. Or the Council worrying that they'll have to take control of the Senate for a peaceful transition once they depose the Chancellor. Lucas just didn't follow it through if that's what he wanted.

I think the issue is that the storyline isn't at all introduced until ROTS. Also because Palpatine is actually behind the Seperatists too it's not like joining the other side would be joining the good guys.

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You don't mean to troll? You've been doing accidentally all these years?

 

The PT needed to be the Clone Wars. The rest of the details were sketched out in the few relevant lines of the OT. The rest of the PT needed to be "rhymed" with the OT. They did that some but not enough. I figured Anakin would be more like a Han-Luke-Lando hybrid, if I thought about it at all.

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The biggest problem with Anakin was that Lucas made him a sullen, complaining teenager. Audiences don't sympathize with that. And so where is the emotion of a main character's fall when we don't care about him?

 

Imagine a young-twenties Obi-Wan discovering a late-teenage Anakin, he's affable and fun, a little cocky because he can do things others can't but he doesn't quite know why or that there are others who can too. He uses these powers to his advantage at times, like winning space races or getting himself out of trouble, but he has a good moral compass. Obi-wan likes him immediately, his sense of fun and how he uses his power is in stark contrast to the serious-minded Jedi way.

 

There we've covered every set-up line Obi-Wan says about him in ANH.

 

Then we can follow him as he goes through learning to rein himself in and try to adhere to the strict Jedi codes. His temptations toward an easier path. His disillusionment, as despite being so talented and well-intentioned, things go wrong for him. This is an Anakin that audiences can like and relate to.

 

Was this kind of thing too "obvious" for George? Or am I just smarter than he is?

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George just isn’t a writer. Even though I don’t love the PT, if you took the exact same stories and had Kasdan, Darabount, or somebody of that ilk write them they would have turned out 100 times better.

 

I could say “in these scene Anakin and Padme pose as refugees to take a low profiel trip home and their relationship sparks on the trip.”

 

Lucas wrote them very stilted, dry, and sans any sort of chemistry. Somebody else could have made those scenes sing.

 

Also, George isn’t a great director. I’ve seen Hayden and Natalie be great in other things with the right director giving them line reads and helping them with their performances.

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George just isn’t a writer. Even though I don’t love the PT, if you took the exact same stories and had Kasdan, Darabount, or somebody of that ilk write them they would have turned out 100 times better.

 

I could say “in these scene Anakin and Padme pose as refugees to take a low profiel trip home and their relationship sparks on the trip.”

 

Lucas wrote them very stilted, dry, and sans any sort of chemistry. Somebody else could have made those scenes sing.

 

Also, George isn’t a great director. I’ve seen Hayden and Natalie be great in other things with the right director giving them line reads and helping them with their performances.

I agree with you but at the same time Ewan, Ian and Liam seemed to be able give good performances. I'll grant that the romantic scenes between Hayden and Natalie are probably the worst scenes anyone was given but neither of them was exactly great in their non romance scenes throughout the trilogy. There are scenes between Obi Wan and Anakin where they have the same material basically and Ewan is great and Hayden is poor.

 

Now Lucas cast those 2 and as director it is his job to see where the weaknesses lay and try to fix them but it does seem like the more veteran, experienced actors were able to pull it off.

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Have you seen Hayden's audition? It's actually great.

 

There's three levels of actors-- ones that suck, ones that can rise above the material, and ones that are only as good as what the director can get out of them.

 

The PT is full of all three.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

George just isn’t a writer. Even though I don’t love the PT, if you took the exact same stories and had Kasdan, Darabount, or somebody of that ilk write them they would have turned out 100 times better.

 

I could say “in these scene Anakin and Padme pose as refugees to take a low profiel trip home and their relationship sparks on the trip.”

 

Lucas wrote them very stilted, dry, and sans any sort of chemistry. Somebody else could have made those scenes sing.

 

Also, George isn’t a great director. I’ve seen Hayden and Natalie be great in other things with the right director giving them line reads and helping them with their performances.

I think it isn't so much the writing (though if Kasdan had been there to help, it WOULD have been better), but the directing and the fact Marcia Lucas wasn't there to edit the PT.

 

Thing is, Lucas took on too much, and I think he basically was overwhelmed. He even has said he wished he didn't direct the PT.

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That's what I've always found strange. Prior to the PT Lucas numerous times had admitted he didn't like directing. He liked to give the house construction analogy. He hated "collecting the materials," i.e. shooting the movie. His favorite part was putting the house together, i.e. editing and finalizing the film. Knowing that, what made him write and direct all three? Was it that the advancements in CGI made him think the collecting of the materials was going to make it so much easier and painless that now he would enjoy it? Was it Rick McCallum in his ear telling him all of this can be done, no sweat? (Whatever happened to that guy anyway?)

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Rick McCallum only ever worked for Lucas. He announced his retirement a day after George cause he knew no one would ever hire him. That guy was the real villain. A good EP would tell the writer/director they need to step it up but McCallum was a toady yes-man.

 

George could crap on the floor and the next day McCallum would do a BTS video talking about how amazingly smooth and shiny it was.

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Good lord, Tank, that's gold. I work with enough yes men/women to know the type, and every BTS vid I've ever seen with that guy reeks of Lucas diarrhea dripping out of his mouth. I would apologize for the nasty image, but then again we've all seen the prequels so we've seen worse.

 

As for Lucas I think he wanted to do the PT to prove something to himself, and then failed miserably. He found out the hard way that he simply had a good idea for a movie, and that's pretty much his life. Even though he made a ton of money off of the whole thing I genuinely feel sorry for him.

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Rick McCallum only ever worked for Lucas. He announced his retirement a day after George cause he knew no one would ever hire him. That guy was the real villain. A good EP would tell the writer/director they need to step it up but McCallum was a toady yes-man.

 

George could crap on the floor and the next day McCallum would do a BTS video talking about how amazingly smooth and shiny it was.

But isn't the Producer essentially the directors boss? Just not the case here. The issues with the prequels lay at Lucas' feet, not anyone elses.

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Good lord, Tank, that's gold. I work with enough yes men/women to know the type, and every BTS vid I've ever seen with that guy reeks of Lucas diarrhea dripping out of his mouth. I would apologize for the nasty image, but then again we've all seen the prequels so we've seen worse.

 

As for Lucas I think he wanted to do the PT to prove something to himself, and then failed miserably. He found out the hard way that he simply had a good idea for a movie, and that's pretty much his life. Even though he made a ton of money off of the whole thing I genuinely feel sorry for him.

I don't know if this is fair. He directed American Grafitti too, which is one of the most successful and influential movies of all time. Was nominated for Best Picture and named one Both AFI Top 100 lists, plus AFIs top 100 comedies list. If George Lucas had only made American Graffiti and that was his biggest hit ever, it would still be a remarkable achievement.

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George Cosmatos directed Tombstone. Or did he......

 

Point being that directors are such a small part or the process. For every Sergio Leone you have a thousand Brett Ratners. Even Kubrick and Copalla lost their respective ways as they got older.

 

Don't even get me started on Carpenter.

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I just don't think it's fair to dismissively bring Lucas' career down to "simply having a good idea for a movie".

 

The man was:

 

Nominated for Best Directed twice

Nominated for Best Writen twice

Both of those movies were nominated for best picture

Wrote and Directed 2 movies that were on AFIs Top 100 list

Bears some credit for 8 of the top 50 movies all time box office when adjusted for inflation

 

You wanna say he stalled out in the early to mid 1980s? That's fine and probably true. But he had about a decade where you really probably couldn't be more prolific and successful as a movie maker than he was.

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I just want to remind you that Kid Rock is in the WWE hall of fame.

 

I'll never understand why people need a pat on the back for their accomplishments in life, Good actor? I'll give you 1 million dollars. Great actor? I'll give you a ten dollar trophy. Here's your Oscar.

 

None if those accolades mean shit in the long run. For every person that loves thae Godfather, I can easily show you 1000 that say it's the most boring movie of all time.

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So your theory is that it's good to criticize someone but not praise them for some reason? All I did was give my opinion that you were overly dismissive of Lucas' accomplishments.

 

Also, you are saying that 99.9 percent of people who have seen the Godfather don't like it?

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Those awards are recognition by industry peers. Nothing more, nothing less. Some people think it's nice to be honoured by their peers for doing good work. Others think there's no best in acting.

However you feel doesn't nullify the point Choc was making.

 

Edit: Also, yes, your Godfather statement is nonsense.

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Im pretty sure Lucas wrote and directed American Graffiti.

 

He wrote a very messy first draft, which was then given shape by Gloria Katz and Willard Huyuk... who did the same thing for ANH and got no credit for it. If you read the early SW drafts they are a hokey mess. Fun, but terrible. In fact, they read like the PT. ANH became what it is after they did a pass.

 

Lucas cannot write. Period. He has great ideas and concepts, but he struggles with finding a narrative structure, and his dialog reads as if he’s only ever spoken to robots.

 

American Graffitti was lauded more for it’s real-time all-in-one-night setting, and the fact that it was the first film to tap into 50s nostalgia. Directorially it’s decent, but not mind blowing. Lucas deserves credit no doubt, but not as a writer and more for his ideas than anything else.

 

Again— great idea man, a born EP, smart with business, and his pushing of ILM to break new ground as all worth lauding. But he was never a writer, and a decent director who lost his skills because he stopped directing. It’s a muscle he stopped flexing and 20 years later he tried to powerlift.

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I agree with you, my main point is that you can't say his career was simply having one good idea and that's it. It's just not fair. I started this thread basically saying he messed up the PT, so it's not like Im just blindly praising the guy. But you also can't just dismiss his accomplishments to hammer home that point.

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I agree with you, my main point is that you can't say his career was simply having one good idea and that's it. It's just not fair. I started this thread basically saying he messed up the PT, so it's not like Im just blindly praising the guy. But you also can't just dismiss his accomplishments to hammer home that point.

I know Tex was trolling (somewhat) for effect, but he is right to an extent. George Lucas will be remembered (by the public) for Star Wars alone. American Graffiti will (and already is, to an extent) be a footnote in his career.. which is totally eclipsed by his one truly great idea that was Star Wars.

He's lucky that he had that great idea and captured lightening in a bottle. That never happens to most people. Having one great idea like that is a rarity, it's even rarer for it to happen again. Lucas consciously tried to recapture that (or thought he could do something AS good again) when he made the PT but he was wrong.

 

As far as the world at large is concerned, Lucas is the original Star Wars. No one gives a crap about American Graffiti.

 

I think that is what Tex was getting at.

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