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The entire PT should have been ROTS


122 replies to this topic

#1
The Choc

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My basic theory is this, all the important phases of Anakin's fall are in ROTS. Lucas said the PT was the story of the rise and fall of Anakin. But we don't really see his rise anyway. He never becomes what he could have or should have been as a Jedi. Lucas should have started the story much later in Anakin's life and focus on his fall and just ignore his "rise". Start it with Anakin as a 25 year old Jedi, the best Jedi in the Galaxy. 

 

This is kinda where ROTS is. Think about it. The first part of ROTS is Anakin and Obi Wan on a mission, the mission is to save the Chancellor. The mission is successful. The 2 of them are out there having fun, joking with each other, R2 is destroying battle droids. It's just a fun adventure. Kinda like ANH and TFA. Obviously you'd have to flesh is out more but in reality you could make a whole movie about the 2 of them having to rescue Papatine, they made a whole movie about Luke having to rescue Leia afterall.

 

The 2nd part of ROTS then is the main characters separated. With one going on more of an action type story and one staying back and learning.  Basically like ESB and TLJ. The movie could easily culmin ate with some form of the Palpatine, Anakin, Mace scene as the climax or maybe even Anakin's attack on the Temple. 

 

Then the last part of ROTS is a last ditch effort to save what's left of the Republic and maybe bring Anakin back. 

 

Basically everything fans wanted or expected to see in the PT is in ROTS. It just mostly isn't given enough time to be done right because its all compressed into one movie. 


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#2
Tex

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Lucas admitted years ago that ROTS was the only story he really wanted to tell and that the other two were just filler.

Can't blame him, though. He made a ton of money off of a two horrible movies.

#3
Tank

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#4
RamonAtila

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I think scenes like Anakin finding his mother dying are worth the PT that we went through

#5
Ryn

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Like R1 being inspired from a single sentence, the PT should have been born from "He was the best star pilot in the galaxy, and a cunning warrior." (Additionally, "When I first met him, your father was already a great pilot. But I was amazed how strongly the Force was with him. I took it upon myself to train him as a Jedi. I thought that I could instruct him just as well as Yoda. I was wrong.")

It's tenuous that any of that dialogue refers to Anakin's antics in TPM.
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#6
The Choc

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Like R1 being inspired from a single sentence, the PT should have been born from "He was the best star pilot in the galaxy, and a cunning warrior." (Additionally, "When I first met him, your father was already a great pilot. But I was amazed how strongly the Force was with him. I took it upon myself to train him as a Jedi. I thought that I could instruct him just as well as Yoda. I was wrong.")

It's tenuous that any of that dialogue refers to Anakin's antics in TPM.

I agree with you, I just kinda think that Anakin's story is almost a 4 part story rather than a trilogy

 

1-His discovery, already talented pilot. Finds out he is strong with Force, goes with Obi Wan to train

2-Some time has passed and Anakin is top of his game, supremely talented. Off with Obi Wan kicking ass and taking names.

3-The two are seperated, Anakin falls to darkside, aligns with Palpatine.

4-Anakin as Vader, not in suit. His friends still have hope he can be brought back. Ends with him in his own personal hell in the suit.

 

I kinda think each of those is it's own story. If I was going to jettison one so that it could be a trilogy it would be the first one though. 



#7
El Chalupacabra

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I somewhat agree.  I think episode 1 could have combined the good elements of TPM and AOTC.  Episode 2 should have actually been the middle of the clone wars with Anakin being displayed as an emerging hero, with Palpatine subtly tempting him with power, etc, setting the stage for his fall, and ending with him getting pwned by Dooku, and while Anakin is recovering, Palpy tempts him with more power.  Then Episode 3, with some minor editing, and/or scene reshoots.  And a better explanation of Padme's death...like Anakin straight up murders her in a rage (instead of dying of a broken heart BS), but he immediately regrets it, then takes his anger out on Obi Wan, who defeats him.  Just my 2 cents.



#8
The Choc

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Yeah within the framework of what we have I agree with you. Episode I could have been plotted nearly the same just have the final battle on Naboo be the battle that sets off the Clone Wars, rather than 10 years earlier. I mean Palpy basically does the exact same thing twice. Plays both sides of a conflict to start a war and advance himself. He does exactly the same thing twice. 



#9
Ms. Spam

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I see what you did there.

#10
Tex

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I don't think there was any way to make the prequels interesting. The only narrative reason to even go there was Darth Vader's history with Obi Wan. Not only was it not worth three movies, it was really only worth a half hour or so of screen time. There was nothing else about the prequels worth watching, and even the meat of it fell flat because we all knew the ending anyway.

#11
Lord Darth Hunter

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Well that's actually a different take. Does the fact that we know how the PT is supposed to end make it so there's no way to actually make a great trilogy?

#12
Tank

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Hot take: the PT should have been Obi-Wan's story and he doesn't meet Anakin until halfway through episode 2.

#13
Tex

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Perhaps, but I think too much Obi Wan could get old quick. He's too much of a straight arrow to be interesting. He's like a priest with an unwavering faith, as opposed to the priest who has doubts. You can do much story wise with the latter.

#14
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Well that's actually a different take. Does the fact that we know how the PT is supposed to end make it so there's no way to actually make a great trilogy?


Obviously I think so. If the PT didn't exist it would've been cool to do a movie that focused on an older Luke with flashback scenes of the Anakin-Obi Wan story, Godfather 2 style. If that movie had focused too much on young Vito it would'nt have worked because the audience knew what that character was going to become.

#15
El Chalupacabra

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Hot take: the PT should have been Obi-Wan's story and he doesn't meet Anakin until halfway through episode 2.

I agree Obi Wan should have been more prominent,  but still think it should have been Anakin's story.  

 

Had they cast a better Anakin, and basically paired Anakin (as a teen or young adult...around 17 or 18?) and Obi Wan up from the beginning or some point in Episode 1, I think it would have worked better.   Maybe Anakin was already a padawan to Qui Gon (and bypassed all the born from the force, podracer, and 10 year old slave story), who dies half way through Episode 1, with Obi Wan taking over as his master, it could have worked better.

 

I am still of the opinion that you can make a REALY good episode 1, if you just spliced the good parts of TMP and AOTC together, and cut out all the ridiculous stuff.  Maybe have half of the movie made up of the good parts of TMP, do a time jump, and the other half of the movie from the good parts of AOTC, with a few scene reshoots or new scenes.  



#16
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Perhaps, but I think too much Obi Wan could get old quick. He's too much of a straight arrow to be interesting. He's like a priest with an unwavering faith, as opposed to the priest who has doubts. You can do much story wise with the latter.


Assuming you play it as we got him. But what if Episode One is a reckless, hot-headed, ladies loving, Obi-Wan?

"So was I, if you remember."

Turning him into a warrior priest, then a general mentor, then a veteran wizard? I'd take that. Anakin's story was already known. It's always been Luke's story, but with failure when it came to the dark side.
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#17
Tex

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Ok, I can see where you're going. Have him be the reckless one in Ep 1 with a disapproving mentor who dies at the end, then grow up in Ep 2 and see a bit of himself in this here Anakin guy (still the best part of the PT, thank you Weird Al) and take him under his wing, then have no choice but to take him out in Ep 3.

The story there would that his mentor was right about everything and that Obi Wan's arrogance led to the whole Anakin debacle. It's so much better than Qui Gon being the one who made the call to train him. If it all comes down to Obi Wan's call, one he was advised against by someone wiser, you've got a much better story.

Edit: I know we got a degree of that in the PT, but Obi Wan was absolved from full responsibility because of Qui Gon. In order to make Obi Wan a truly tragic figure you need to make Anakin his failed project, and his alone.
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#18
Tex

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And no offense to you Tank, but pretty much everything that anyone here has suggested about what the PT should have been is better than what we got.

Reboot!
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#19
Tank

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Like you said, we knew what was going to happen from the start, so they already had that against them. I say, if you do a prequel, you go deep left field and be unexpected and have an interesting story. The mystery is how it;'s going to get to what you know. TPM sorta claimed to be doing that, but making Anakin a kid and adding Qui-Gon to the mix wasn't the right kind of unexpected.

Then again, as somebody who wrote a franchise prequel that went somewhere unexpected I can tell you that a lot of people, aka MOST people, hate change and want the same thing over and over and over. I have the hatemail to prove it. Also, see: Transformers part 324.

#20
El Chalupacabra

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Edit: I know we got a degree of that in the PT, but Obi Wan was absolved from full responsibility because of Qui Gon. In order to make Obi Wan a truly tragic figure you need to make Anakin his failed project, and his alone.

Qui Gon, who only knew Anakin for days aside, I think Obi Wan was tragic (ultimately having to put Anakin down) and Anakin WAS his failed project (EG:  "I have failed you Anakin.").    Obi wan was ultimately responsible because he literally raised Anakin.  

 

What I would have liked to see more of is more interaction between Anakin and Palpatine, with Palpatine subtly manipulating and tempting Anakin to the dark side.  We got a little of that in ROTS, but we should have seen more of it in episode 2 (EG somehow fit in Anakin consulting Palpatine after not being able to contact Obi Wan, and telling him about how he slaughtered Sand People, etc).

 

 

Then again, as somebody who wrote a franchise prequel that went somewhere unexpected I can tell you that a lot of people, aka MOST people, hate change and want the same thing over and over and over. I have the hatemail to prove it. Also, see: Transformers part 324.

Depends on how old and how prominent the franchise is, I suppose.  Star Wars is hard to do that with.  People want to see new characters and events, but I think the audience has been "trained" to a degree to see Star Wars rhyme with what came before.  This happens a lot in Star Wars books, comics, games, and even the PT and ST.  Even though TLJ tried to take things in different directions, it still tries hard to rhyme with the OT.  Cinematography from both TFA and TLJ literally rips scenes from the OT, and re-enacts them, just in a different context sometimes.  



#21
Odine

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Maybe if we get a Vader standalone film there will be flashbacks and enough of them to flesh out the Anakin story in a way that is befitting to the character.
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#22
Tex

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I just had a great idea for a 30 second trailer for the PT we should have gotten. Obi Wan and Anakin sparring. Obi schools him, lecturing him the whole time, then Anakin gets mad and schools Obi Wan, ultimately disarming him. Anakin never says a word, but you get a close up on his intense face and it ends with Obi Wan saying " that's enough for today."
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#23
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Maybe if we get a Vader standalone film there will be flashbacks and enough of them to flesh out the Anakin story in a way that is befitting to the character.


Problem is, Lucas made 1-6 into a Vader story. I'm pulling for an Obi-Wan movie for the same reasons.

#24
Lord Darth Hunter

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I had wanted an Obi Wan / Vader film where we see Kenobi's exploits after ROTS while Vader is trying to find him. But that probably wouldn't work because a film with the hero and villain juxtaposed like that would create the need for a payoff. But we can never have them meet between ROTS and ANH. So nix that idea.

#25
The Choc

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You wanna do something unexpected, do this: Don't make it about Anakin falling to the darksde, make it about Obi Wan becoming a good guy. Think about it, Anakin and Obi Wan are on the bad guys side throughout most of the trilogy. They are on Palpatine's side. Ofcourse Lucas mitigates this by having Palaptine essentially be on both sides so there is no good side.

 

But how about this: Anakin and Obi Wan are on the Republic's side. There is a group that realizes what Palpatine is and although he isn't Emperor yet they can see where this is going. They set up a Rebellion or whatever you want to call it. Obi Wan and Anakin are the "bad guy" sent to stop this Rebellion from accomplishing their mission. Now in Episode I Kenobi and Skywalker aren't bad guys. They are just on the wrong side, they aren't cruel or brutal or anything. Now the "rebels" complete their misison at the end of the movie, blow up whatever they wanted to blow up. Its a pretty straight up 1st part of a SW trilogy. We establish new good guys, just Kenobi and Skywalker are on the bad side.

 

Now Episode II picks up a bit later. Anakin has been radicalized against these rebels due to them blowing up whatever they blew up in Episode I. He's become brutal and cruel. Obi Wan is the opposite, hes starting to realize that he is on the wrong side. At the end of the movie he defects and joins the Rebels. This infuriates Anakin.

 

Episode III then focuses on Obi Wan becoming a leader of this rebellion and desperately trying to stop Anakin and Palpatine from taking complete control of the Galaxy. On the flip side Anakin feels betrayed and is hunting his former friend. 





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