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The basic thing that got guys over


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I think Henry got over enough on his own. We should all take a moment and give him a hand.

You'd better extend that moment to a pregnant pause.

Sounds good to me   El Gigante/ Giant Gonzales: clothing

I dont think the fact that there was "no one else to give the belt to" is what got him over. He was already over. He had stolen WM X against Razor and he was in the title match at 11. By the time he won the title at 12 he was already more than over.

 

Well wrestling is littered with guys who were good workers but not good draws. Shawn Michaels was one of those guys.

 

There's a reason why he wasn't champ during the Hogan era or the Austin era. He simply wasn't a draw. An excellent worker for sure, but not the kind of guy that would get casual wrestling fans to buy a PPV or buy a ticket.

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I dont think the fact that there was "no one else to give the belt to" is what got him over. He was already over. He had stolen WM X against Razor and he was in the title match at 11. By the time he won the title at 12 he was already more than over.

Well wrestling is littered with guys who were good workers but not good draws. Shawn Michaels was one of those guys.

 

There's a reason why he wasn't champ during the Hogan era or the Austin era. He simply wasn't a draw. An excellent worker for sure, but not the kind of guy that would get casual wrestling fans to buy a PPV or buy a ticket.

 

I agree but there are only a few guys who fit the definition of what you are saying. Like 3 or 4 in the last 40 years.

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Mr Perfect

Rick Rude

Jake Roberts

Ted Dibiase

Arn Anderson

Bobby Eaton

Ricky Steamboat

Shawn Michaels

Bret Hart

Brad Armstrong

Ricky Morton

 

And that's just the 80s and 90s. Great workers, but not good draws. Michaels only got a push because he was in the right place at the right time.

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Questionable unintended over:

 

Booker T calling Hulk Hogan the n-word on live TV.

 

Was over at first, but quickly backfired--

 

HHH doesn't lose

Eugene is retarded

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Over: William Regal - "British Gentleman villain"

 

Failed: William Regal - "A Real Man's Man"

Over: William Regal - "British Gentleman villain"

 

Failed: William Regal - "A Real Man's Man"

Heel turn over for Regal: “the power of the punch”

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There's a reason why he wasn't champ during the Hogan era or the Austin era.

 

The reasons for that are simple:

 

1. He was on the Rockers (where he was a big draw) during the Hogan era until nearly the end. And he was given a decent push straight into the IC mix during the brief overlap.

 

2. He was champ during the Austin era and did the honors of handing Stone Cold the strap for the first time before immediately retiring.

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Nobody ever paid good money to see the Rockers. Again, no disrespect to Shawm Miichaels, but he just wasn't a draw. He was a tag team guy.

 

Funny thing about Austin is that he wasn't a draw either before the Stone Cold thing. He was a great worker for years but it was the Stone Cold thing that got him over. I vividly remember him working a match live as Stunning Steve in WCW and doing the job to Sting at a house show and nobody gave a shit about him except for me. Austin said something that made Sting crack up up, which was probably along the lines of "man can you believe we're in shithole Columbia South Carolina. This Sucks". 1 2 3.

 

Michaels kinda worked himself into a corner, because he was a great worker but never had the star power to be the top guy. That's why he was so difficult behind the curtain. He knew that if he lost to the wrong guy he'd become e a mid card act like so many before him.

 

I actually give him a ton of credit for realizing that. In real life he was a tiny little pipsqueak that half of nightly could beat up in a real fight, but somehow he managed to keep some modicum of credibility.

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Nobody ever paid good money to see the Rockers. Again, no disrespect to Shawm Miichaels, but he just wasn't a draw. He was a tag team guy.

 

Funny thing about Austin is that he wasn't a draw either before the Stone Cold thing. He was a great worker for years but it was the Stone Cold thing that got him over. I vividly remember him working a match live as Stunning Steve in WCW and doing the job to Sting at a house show and nobody gave a **** about him except for me. Austin said something that made Sting crack up up, which was probably along the lines of "man can you believe we're in ****hole Columbia South Carolina. This Sucks". 1 2 3.

 

Michaels kinda worked himself into a corner, because he was a great worker but never had the star power to be the top guy. That's why he was so difficult behind the curtain. He knew that if he lost to the wrong guy he'd become e a mid card act like so many before him.

 

I actually give him a ton of credit for realizing that. In real life he was a tiny little pipsqueak that half of nightly could beat up in a real fight, but somehow he managed to keep some modicum of credibility.

You are missing the point, no one is saying Shawn was Hogan, Austin or Rock as a draw but that's because no one was. Those three stand alone. Shawn though was a great, great performer. To me the best I ever saw as overall wrestler. That's what the show should be built on, guys like that. Guys like the big 3 I mentioned earlier are rare and really can't be predicted. I think part of WWEs problem is even trying to create that rather than just putting on a great show and hoping that a mega star develops.

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Michaels kinda worked himself into a corner, because he was a great worker but never had the star power to be the top guy. That's why he was so difficult behind the curtain. He knew that if he lost to the wrong guy he'd become e a mid card act like so many before him.

 

Then how'd he come back four years later and ascend to the point where he'd never hold the belt again, but would close the show in three more Wrestlemania main events (doing the job in all three) and be as popular as ever? How is he a legend with a 6-11 record at Wrestlemania if he was dependent on winning to not fall to the midcard?

 

Truth be told, Michaels was a pain backstage before his retirement for the simple reason that he was an insecure ass with a drug habit back then. He's confirmed that interpretation plenty of times.

 

 

 

Nobody ever paid good money to see the Rockers.

 

All I know is that the Rockers were the most popular tag-team in my neighborhood until the day he tossed Marty Jannetty through the window.

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Nobody ever paid good money to see the Rockers. Again, no disrespect to Shawm Miichaels, but he just wasn't a draw. He was a tag team guy.

Funny thing about Austin is that he wasn't a draw either before the Stone Cold thing. He was a great worker for years but it was the Stone Cold thing that got him over. I vividly remember him working a match live as Stunning Steve in WCW and doing the job to Sting at a house show and nobody gave a **** about him except for me. Austin said something that made Sting crack up up, which was probably along the lines of "man can you believe we're in ****hole Columbia South Carolina. This Sucks". 1 2 3.

Michaels kinda worked himself into a corner, because he was a great worker but never had the star power to be the top guy. That's why he was so difficult behind the curtain. He knew that if he lost to the wrong guy he'd become e a mid card act like so many before him.

I actually give him a ton of credit for realizing that. In real life he was a tiny little pipsqueak that half of nightly could beat up in a real fight, but somehow he managed to keep some modicum of credibility.

 

You are missing the point, no one is saying Shawn was Hogan, Austin or Rock as a draw but that's because no one was. Those three stand alone. Shawn though was a great, great performer. To me the best I ever saw as overall wrestler. That's what the show should be built on, guys like that. Guys like the big 3 I mentioned earlier are rare and really can't be predicted. I think part of WWEs problem is even trying to create that rather than just putting on a great show and hoping that a mega star develops.

Perhaps the focus should be on wrestling rather than wrestlers. I know that Vince would rather keep the focus on the brand rather than the talent, and I think the result is a lack of talent. Guys like Michaels are consistently called upon to get the new guy over, when in fact it should be the Michaelseseses that should be the top guy.

 

Problem with that approach, though, is that people are still hard wired to only care about the big guys. Doesn't matter if they can work or not. That's what the audience expects. As Vince has reportedly said numerous times "Hogan must pose!!!!!"

 

Look I would love nothing more to see a wrestling fed with only Michaels, Hart, Flair, Dibiase, Henning, Rude, Steamboat, Roberts, Windham, and so forth, but the fact is that they still think they need a white meat baby face for the whole thing to work.

 

Hopefully the crowd will let Reigns know it tonight and they'll finally change their ways a bit.

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Perhaps the focus should be on wrestling rather than wrestlers. I know that Vince would rather keep the focus on the brand rather than the talent, and I think the result is a lack of talent. Guys like Michaels are consistently called upon to get the new guy over, when in fact it should be the Michaelseseses that should be the top guy.

 

I think you're missing something important. Michaels wasn't the top guy for the latter part of career because he didn't need it anymore in the same way Andre the Giant or the Undertaker didn't need it. At a certain point, it wasn't a priority to to protect himself. His drawing power, place on the card, and company pecking order was independent of whether he held a title or won his last feud. He could job all day long and he would still get premium matches against top talent at the next PPV.

 

For a random year, let's look at what he was doing in 2007:

  • New Years Revolution: HBK and HHH in a DX revival vs. Randy Orton and Edge (tag-team championship match). Ended in a draw. Longest match of the night.
  • Royal Rumble: Last man eliminated in the Royal Rumble by The Undertaker
  • No Way Out: John Cena and Shawn Michaels defeated Batista and The Undertaker. The main event. Longest match of the night.
  • Wrestlemania 23: John Cena defeated Shawn Michaels (championship match). The main event. Longest match of the night.
  • Backlash: John Cena defeated Randy Orton, Edge and Shawn Michaels in a Fatal 4-Way (championship match). The main event.
  • Judgement Day: Randy Orton defeated Shawn Michaels.
  • Next 6 PPV: Out with injury.
  • Cyber Sunday: Shawn Michaels defeated Randy Orton (championship match)
  • Survivor Series: Randy Orton defeated Shawn Michaels (championship match)
  • Armageddon: Shawn Michaels defeated Mr. Kennedy. Longest match of the night

Okay, so let's tally that up. Despite missing 5 months with an injury, Michaels was in 9 PPVs. He was in was in the main event of 3 of them including Wrestlemania. In two others he was in a championship match and he also was also the last man eliminated at the Royal Rumble. I would mark that as his being in a prime match in 2/3 of the PPV that he participated in. He also had the longest match of the night in 4 of the 9.

 

His record that year in PPV: 3-5 (1 draw)

In championship matches: 0-4 (1 draw)

 

This is not the resume of a guy who needed a belt to draw or pins to keep up his reputation. Outside of Mr. Kennedy, he wrestled with none but the cream of the WWE crop each and every month. The only conclusion is that the WWE had total confidence to send him out and be draw and linchpin on the card.

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They had total confidence that he could do a good match with anyone, which he did all the time. They never had confidence that he would be a good draw because he never was.

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