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Snoke prequel


43 replies to this topic

#1
El Chalupacabra

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Take this with a grain of salt, but Andy Serkis says there may be a Snoke prequel to fill in his back story.  Damage control by Disney after realizing they screwed the pooch with TLJ and killing Snoke off too soon, or all part of the master plan?  You decide.  

 

http://www.denofgeek...el-could-happen



#2
Metropolis

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People might have been miffed that Snoke wasn't fleshed out more, but I doubt anyone wants a movie as a response.
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#3
El Chalupacabra

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Yeah, not sure that a ST prequel is the answer, either.  Not one solely centered around Snoke, anyway.  And I say that as someone who would love to see a Sith-based movie (Yeah, I know technically Snoke isn't a Sith, but he is in all but name).  

 

I would much rather see a Luke movie, and if Snoke happened to be in it and have back story , then fine.  But I doubt that would happen because of obvious reasons.  



#4
Lord Darth Hunter

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It's going to be the ending to Rebels fleshed out. Sabine and Ahsoka are searching for Ezra and they find out he's turned into Snoke.
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#5
Stallion

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I thought that myself, but he mentions he saw the empire rise, ezra wasn't born then.

#6
Lord Darth Hunter

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Well, Ezra witnessed his parents get involved in anti-Empire activities and saw them killed as the Imperials tightened their hold on Lothal. At that young age, from that perspective it could be considered seeing the Empire rise to complete power. It's like the concept of war where it is something that happens halfway around the globe. We'd have a totally different idea of it if the bombs were falling 100 miles from us.

#7
Odine

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I'd watch it. 

 

 

Just like I'll watch this Han Solo movie. 



#8
RamonAtila

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I dont think anyone needs a Snoke prequel. I think RJ really screwed the pooch by killing him off so early


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#9
Tank

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Snoke's story could have been one line in TFA or TLJ. ONE LINE.
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#10
Brett

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Yes, making a standalone film to whitewash over poor storytelling would be a huge mistake. But since they don't seem to be following any actual plan for this trilogy (if they are I sure as **** can't see it) I assume Abrams is going to just bring him back in the next one. Clones are already established in Star Wars, just do that. Or since Snoke is seemingly so powerful just say that he was messing with Rey and Kylo's heads or something. Like, he was just "force projecting" (not sure how you would explain the body, or lack thereof, but who cares at this point) Otherwise this is will just go down as a bizarre, non-starter, waste-of-time character.


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#11
Stallion

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Well, Ezra witnessed his parents get involved in anti-Empire activities and saw them killed as the Imperials tightened their hold on Lothal. At that young age, from that perspective it could be considered seeing the Empire rise to complete power. It's like the concept of war where it is something that happens halfway around the globe. We'd have a totally different idea of it if the bombs were falling 100 miles from us.


I guess if you used the certain point of view argument it could work. Only other glitch is they announced palpatine knew of snoke. So he'd have to change before jedi.

Snoke's story could have been one line in TFA or TLJ. ONE LINE.



I've said this alot, a line or two was all they missed for him.

#12
The Choc

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I don't get this idea that a line or two from or on Snoke would be a good idea. There are only a couple times when this would even really be possible.

 

First is from Snoke himself when Rey is brought before him. This would be a terrible idea though. Snoke going on some Bond villain rant explaining where he came from and why would be awful. It would be him saying it to us, the audience, not to Rey. At that point in time when Rey is before Snoke and surrounded by Kylo Ren and the Guards I doubt she gives a crap about Snokes origins or the history of the First Order, she just wants to not get killed at that point.

 

The other chance would be from Luke when he is giving the story of how Kylo turned evil. This would maybe be possible but still doesn't quite work. FIrst I don't think we want an overlong backstory or exposition. If we are going to get something longer than what we already did get I'd think it would make more sense to concentrate on how Snoke turned Kylo rather than where Snoke came from.

 

Basically it's bad writing and storytelling to give information to the audience that isn't pertinent to the characters. In this case that character is Rey. There is really no point in this story thus far where Snoke's origin or how he rose to power would matter all that much to Rey. It's just not important to her. Just like if in ROTJ the Emperor would have stopped in the Throne Room scene and been like "now Young Skywalker I will explain to you how I tricked the Senate into giving me emergency powers!!". 

 

There is just no point in this story where Snoke's backstory is relevant to the story being told. You guys want the information just to have the information, not because it matters or is relevant to this story. The movies are not encyclopedias that just give us all the information on every character or event. 



#13
Brett

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The movies are there to tell a story. Snoke was clearly being set up as an important piece only to be killed off. The fact that there isn't/wasn't a point in the narrative where he was fleshed out in any way shape or form is a failure in the structure of the writing of the first two films as a whole.

The Emperor didn't show up in any meaningful capacity until the third film. He's mentioned in Star Wars, a hologram in Empire, and a greater evil who acts as a means for Vader's redemption in Jedi. He serves a clear purpose, you understood his basic function. Snoke is nothing more than a generic foil whose death does nothing to advance the plot. Kylo Ren kills him and remains evil. Rey wasn't even tempted to give in. If his death had served as a means of providing a sudden twist for Rey's temptation; the end of TLJ being a cliffhanger with her morals in doubt, that would have been excusable... or perhaps if his actual plan had been revealed to Kylo who then chooses to appropriate it for his own twisted ends.
So, no, it's not an encyclopedia, that was one of the prequel trilogy's problems, but there does need to be enough information conveyed in order for the audience to become invested. Most of the first two films (up until he bites it) lead audiences to the basic assumption that he had an end game, which was to either absorb other's force power in order to reincarnate/advance his own; or play Ben and Rey off each other as pawns (for some purpose, of which we would eventually see) His "plan" is an irrelevant moot point now (unless of course they find a clever way to say he isn't really dead) He's a one dimensional antagonist who served no purpose in TLJ or in the trilogy as a whole (as it is currently) He's a narrative cul-de-sac. And giving us a prequel-esque story about his rise to power won't remedy the fact that he went out like a chump. It may make us go "hmm, ok, sure" but it won't change the end result. 


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#14
The Choc

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His role is the same as the Emperor. Is it that different that Snoke appears in a couple more holograms than the Emperor? To say his  doesn't advance the plot is just wrong.

 

Watch TFA, look at Kylo's story. He wants to surpass Vader. He says it to Vaders helmet "I will finish what you started". Look at when he is holding Rey prisoner and she gets into his mind "You are afraid you will never be as strong as Vader". Watch the beginning of TLJ, Snoke taunts him about how he's not living up to Vader. Kylos story is all about him surpassing his grandfather. What's one thing Vader more than once said he wanted to do but he never did? Destroy the Emperor and rule on his own. He says it to Padme in ROTS, he says it to Luke in ESB.

 

By killing Snoke Kylo surpasses Vader. He does the one thing Vader never did and becomes the ruler on his own. That was Snoke's role, he was there for Kylo to kill and take his place. I thought that after the very first time I saw TFA. 

 

You thought from watching TFA that it was somehow hinted that he wanted to absorb Force power to sustain himself? You didn't think that right? Where in the world does that idea come from?


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#15
Tank

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I don't get this idea that a line or two from or on Snoke would be a good idea. There are only a couple times when this would even really be possible.
 
First is from Snoke himself when Rey is brought before him. This wouwould be awful. It would be him saying it to us, the adience, not to Rey. At that point in time when Rey is before Snoke and surrounded by Kylo Ren and the Guards I doubt she gives a crap about Snokes origins or the history of the First Order, she just wants to not get killed at that point.
 
The other chance would be from Luke when he is giving the story of how Kylo turned evil. This would maybe be possible but still doesn't quite work. FIrst I don't think we want an overlong backstory or exposition. If we are going to get something longer than what we already did get I'd think it would make more sense to concentrate on how Snoke turned Kylo rather than where Snoke came from.
 


Luke telling his story to Rey: ...and after he burned the temple to the ground, Ben went off in search of the dark voice that he'd been hearing since he was a child... Snoke-- trapped in a carbonite prison where the Jedi had imprisoned him centuries ago. Ben released him, and with the Knights of Ren they assumed control of the remnants of the Empirecand formed the first order."

Fini
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#16
Jacen123

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Sounds like E(SB)xar Kun to me


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#17
Odine

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I don't get this idea that a line or two from or on Snoke would be a good idea. There are only a couple times when this would even really be possible.
 
First is from Snoke himself when Rey is brought before him. This wouwould be awful. It would be him saying it to us, the adience, not to Rey. At that point in time when Rey is before Snoke and surrounded by Kylo Ren and the Guards I doubt she gives a crap about Snokes origins or the history of the First Order, she just wants to not get killed at that point.
 
The other chance would be from Luke when he is giving the story of how Kylo turned evil. This would maybe be possible but still doesn't quite work. FIrst I don't think we want an overlong backstory or exposition. If we are going to get something longer than what we already did get I'd think it would make more sense to concentrate on how Snoke turned Kylo rather than where Snoke came from.
 

Luke telling his story to Rey: ...and after he burned the temple to the ground, Ben went off in search of the dark voice that he'd been hearing since he was a child... Snoke-- trapped in a carbonite prison where the Jedi had imprisoned him centuries ago. Ben released him, and with the Knights of Ren they assumed control of the remnants of the Empirecand formed the first order."

Fini

boom!

That's why you get paid the big bucks.
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#18
El Chalupacabra

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Snoke's story could have been one line in TFA or TLJ. ONE LINE.

 

 

I don't get this idea that a line or two from or on Snoke would be a good idea. There are only a couple times when this would even really be possible.
 
First is from Snoke himself when Rey is brought before him. This wouwould be awful. It would be him saying it to us, the adience, not to Rey. At that point in time when Rey is before Snoke and surrounded by Kylo Ren and the Guards I doubt she gives a crap about Snokes origins or the history of the First Order, she just wants to not get killed at that point.
 
The other chance would be from Luke when he is giving the story of how Kylo turned evil. This would maybe be possible but still doesn't quite work. FIrst I don't think we want an overlong backstory or exposition. If we are going to get something longer than what we already did get I'd think it would make more sense to concentrate on how Snoke turned Kylo rather than where Snoke came from.
 


Luke telling his story to Rey: ...and after he burned the temple to the ground, Ben went off in search of the dark voice that he'd been hearing since he was a child... Snoke-- trapped in a carbonite prison where the Jedi had imprisoned him centuries ago. Ben released him, and with the Knights of Ren they assumed control of the remnants of the Empirecand formed the first order."

Fini

 

 

I don't get this idea that a line or two from or on Snoke would be a good idea. There are only a couple times when this would even really be possible.

 

First is from Snoke himself when Rey is brought before him. This would be a terrible idea though. Snoke going on some Bond villain rant explaining where he came from and why would be awful. It would be him saying it to us, the audience, not to Rey. At that point in time when Rey is before Snoke and surrounded by Kylo Ren and the Guards I doubt she gives a crap about Snokes origins or the history of the First Order, she just wants to not get killed at that point.

 

The other chance would be from Luke when he is giving the story of how Kylo turned evil. This would maybe be possible but still doesn't quite work. FIrst I don't think we want an overlong backstory or exposition. If we are going to get something longer than what we already did get I'd think it would make more sense to concentrate on how Snoke turned Kylo rather than where Snoke came from.

 

Basically it's bad writing and storytelling to give information to the audience that isn't pertinent to the characters. In this case that character is Rey. There is really no point in this story thus far where Snoke's origin or how he rose to power would matter all that much to Rey. It's just not important to her. Just like if in ROTJ the Emperor would have stopped in the Throne Room scene and been like "now Young Skywalker I will explain to you how I tricked the Senate into giving me emergency powers!!". 

 

There is just no point in this story where Snoke's backstory is relevant to the story being told. You guys want the information just to have the information, not because it matters or is relevant to this story. The movies are not encyclopedias that just give us all the information on every character or event. 

This ALL goes back to Rian Johnson.  You know, the more time that goes by after having seen TLJ, the more and more I am starting to NOT like it.  I was fine with Snoke dying.  But I was NOT fine with getting zero back story.  Tank is half right...there should have at least been a line or two to give us some idea about Snoke.   Was that ALL that was needed?  I disagree.  

 

Now don't get me wrong, making a movie to correct Rian Johnson's ill-advised idea of ripping up the proverbial notes that JJ Abrams handed him to follow for TLJ and build on TFA probably is not something I want.  But like I said before, I would not object to a film or two about something else (IE about Luke in exile), that happens to also touch on some of Snoke's back story.  

 

If that were done, then I think Snoke should be handled like the Emperor was in the PT...a supporting but important character who basically is in the background and is a "b" story.  



#19
El Chalupacabra

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I don't get this idea that a line or two from or on Snoke would be a good idea. There are only a couple times when this would even really be possible.
 
First is from Snoke himself when Rey is brought before him. This wouwould be awful. It would be him saying it to us, the adience, not to Rey. At that point in time when Rey is before Snoke and surrounded by Kylo Ren and the Guards I doubt she gives a crap about Snokes origins or the history of the First Order, she just wants to not get killed at that point.
 
The other chance would be from Luke when he is giving the story of how Kylo turned evil. This would maybe be possible but still doesn't quite work. FIrst I don't think we want an overlong backstory or exposition. If we are going to get something longer than what we already did get I'd think it would make more sense to concentrate on how Snoke turned Kylo rather than where Snoke came from.
 


Luke telling his story to Rey: ...and after he burned the temple to the ground, Ben went off in search of the dark voice that he'd been hearing since he was a child... Snoke-- trapped in a carbonite prison where the Jedi had imprisoned him centuries ago. Ben released him, and with the Knights of Ren they assumed control of the remnants of the Empirecand formed the first order."

Fini

 

First, can we NOT call Kylo Ren, Ben?

 

Second, an intriguing premise I can ALMOST buy in to, but I have always had the sense that Snoke becoming Supreme Leader preceded Kylo Ren's fall.  But I do like the idea of Snoke having been carbon frozen...possibly by the Emperor.  Maybe Palpy couldn't beat Snoke outright, so he set a trap and had him frozen instead, thus removing Snoke as a rival and allowed Palpy to then go on to become the emperor.  Better that than Snoke=Darth Plagueis!



#20
Jacen123

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I really wish that Disney wasn't trying to push out the Episode films every two years.  I get why they are, but I have to imagine that they could have tightened up so many of the problems with TLJ with more time.


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#21
Tank

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I don't get this idea that a line or two from or on Snoke would be a good idea. There are only a couple times when this would even really be possible.
 
First is from Snoke himself when Rey is brought before him. This wouwould be awful. It would be him saying it to us, the adience, not to Rey. At that point in time when Rey is before Snoke and surrounded by Kylo Ren and the Guards I doubt she gives a crap about Snokes origins or the history of the First Order, she just wants to not get killed at that point.
 
The other chance would be from Luke when he is giving the story of how Kylo turned evil. This would maybe be possible but still doesn't quite work. FIrst I don't think we want an overlong backstory or exposition. If we are going to get something longer than what we already did get I'd think it would make more sense to concentrate on how Snoke turned Kylo rather than where Snoke came from.
 

Luke telling his story to Rey: ...and after he burned the temple to the ground, Ben went off in search of the dark voice that he'd been hearing since he was a child... Snoke-- trapped in a carbonite prison where the Jedi had imprisoned him centuries ago. Ben released him, and with the Knights of Ren they assumed control of the remnants of the Empirecand formed the first order."

Fini
 
First, can we NOT call Kylo Ren, Ben?
 
Second, an intriguing premise I can ALMOST buy in to, but I have always had the sense that Snoke becoming Supreme Leader preceded Kylo Ren's fall.  But I do like the idea of Snoke having been carbon frozen...possibly by the Emperor.  Maybe Palpy couldn't beat Snoke outright, so he set a trap and had him frozen instead, thus removing Snoke as a rival and allowed Palpy to then go on to become the emperor.  Better that than Snoke=Darth Plagueis!

I wasn't saying it HAD to be that-- but just showing that an extra 10 seconds of exposition can clear up a lot of mystery.

...and when he left Luke he was still Ben... So PFFT!
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#22
El Chalupacabra

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I really wish that Disney wasn't trying to push out the Episode films every two years.  I get why they are, but I have to imagine that they could have tightened up so many of the problems with TLJ with more time.

The other mistake I think they made with the Episodes is not just having JJ (or someone else) do all 3 films for consistencies sake.  Why they didn't just have JJ handle directing and producing the Episodes and have Kasden write them is beyond me.  

 

I wonder if Disney would still have given TLJ to Rian Johnson, if they knew beforehand he would trash everything that the OT and JJ Abrams set up in TFA.  Hopefully, Disney has learned something, here. 



#23
Tank

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I really wish that Disney wasn't trying to push out the Episode films every two years.  I get why they are, but I have to imagine that they could have tightened up so many of the problems with TLJ with more time.

The other mistake I think they made with the Episodes is not just having JJ (or someone else) do all 3 films for consistencies sake.  Why they didn't just have JJ handle directing and producing the Episodes and have Kasden write them is beyond me.  
 
I wonder if Disney would still have given TLJ to Rian Johnson, if they knew beforehand he would trash everything that the OT and JJ Abrams set up in TFA.  Hopefully, Disney has learned something, here.

Again Disney has nothing to do with it. They write checks to Lucasfilm, and make their profit. All hiring, firing, and creative direction ultimately lands on Kath;een Kennedy.

Nothing in TLJ was a suprise to anyone in Lucasfilm. While these movies are being pumped out, there is constant communication between everyone involved. No one involved in making a movie is surprised by anything in it, not even when they read the script. Rian would have pitched his ideas in his first meeting, and everyone involved would have been part of the development of the script and seen drafts. JJ had read TLJ before TFA had even come out he commented on how much he liked it.

I do agree that they should have planned all three movies for consistancy, but if KK had any true issues with TLJ she had plenty of time to change it. Even with a tight schedule. Fords injury on the TFA set stalled them out enough that a pretty heavy rewrite was done. R1 had extensive reshoots, Solo swapped directors if at any time Lucasfilm or Disney took issue with what TLJ was shaping up to be they could have changed it.

#24
The Choc

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Tank, would that one line have made the movie better? Would you have left the theater more entertained somehow? I doubt it. 

 

As for planning it out all at once, I don't agree with that either. If the OT had been planned out all at once then Vader isn't Luke's father. Would that have been better? I certainly don't think so.

 

I still just don't get this whole idea that TLJ somehow didn't build on what TFA did. I almost feel like I watched a different TFA than you guys or at least understood it in a totally different way. TLJ did most things in very much the exact way I though it should building on TFA. 

 

And listen I'm not saying I would disliked a line or two on Snoke. I just don't think it would have added anything really. Would have just been neutral. I just think overall people want too much explained. People wanted how the saber got to Maz explained, they wanted the map explained. I get Snoke's backstory is potentially more important than those things but we don't need it. Is there a story behind Snoke? Ofcourse there has to be. That's not the story being told here though.



#25
Jacen123

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they had better do this prequel soon so that we can get Cheech in Chong into the movie since I have to imagine it will be called Up in Snoke: A Star Wars Story.





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