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Favreau to write and exec produce TV series


75 replies to this topic

#26
Odine

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Me, looking at Tank, trying to have a rational conversation with people who only want to pretend to have a rational conversation:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEblfSKCXM0 


Classic! But I don't see anyone in here who can't have a rational conversation about this matter. It's just a tired conversation so people can't be bothered engaging in it. Particularly when it's only Star Wars people want to talk about. I did the same thing in a thread a couple weeks ago with Mara. Politicised it and people got exasperated.

#27
Filthy Jawa

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To me it's all about opportunity. I find it hard to believe that Kennedy is sitting in her office refusing to give minority or female candidates a chance at this based on some kind of prejudice.

You're absolutely right, I'm sure she's not thinking that sort of thing at all. And I don't think anyone here is accusing her of any kind of specific prejudice like that. I believe what people are talking about is the SYSTEMIC prejudice that exists in Hollywood and, apparently, at Lucasfilm.

I think YOU said perfectly in your comparison of NFL head coaches. If white male directors are the only ones who keep getting certain jobs, nothing ever changes.

I think the difference is some people think we should just wait for changes to happen slowly over generations and some people want change to happen now.

#28
Filthy Jawa

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But yeah, Favreau. If it has to be another white man in charge, he's a good choice. 😉

#29
Metropolis

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But that's it right there isn't it? The right choice? While it remains to be seen if he is, most of us only really care about the finished product. Doesn't mean we don't care about diversity in Hollywood or anywhere else for that matter. It just means that for this discussion some of us don't see that it's relevant.
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#30
Poe Dameron

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Back in my day, I recall people saying that Hollywood was already run by minorities.  But, I suppose being Jewish, like about half the Star Wars directors and writers are, is no longer sufficient to make you a member of the club.

 

Progress?  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯



#31
Tank

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I suspect you're being flip-- if not, that's a very problematic statement.

#32
El Chalupacabra

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He is also a known swinger.

I see what you did there!



#33
Lord Darth Hunter

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To piggyback on the sports analogy, I heard on a recent sports show where this same issue was being discussed, the commentator said, it's time young black men stop trying to be the next Lebron, the next Durant, and start thinking about being the next Dan Gilbert (Cleveland Cavs owner) or the next Adam Silver (NBA Commissioner). Apply that to Hollywood.

#34
Metropolis

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Well to be an owner you have to have Billions. As of last year there were only 10 black billionaires in the world. Two of them are American. One is Oprah and the other Michael Jordan. Jordan is a part owner of the Hornets.

In Hollywood there are situations where a woman or someone of color are in charge. Not a lot but some. The critique is that they aren't putting their money where their mouths are. Padme went off on the SAGs about the all male director nominees. Yet her own production company hasn't hired a female director.
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#35
Odine

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Dr Dre is a billionaire now too thanks to his Beats sale to apple

#36
Poe Dameron

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I suspect you're being flip-- if not, that's a very problematic statement.

Well, yeah, I was being flip.  Not sure what's problematic though.  To say that Jews have had their own struggles is putting it mildly.  I was reminded about it by Lawrence Bacow's problems over at Harvard despite being the son of a Holocaust survivor.



#37
Tank

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Here’s my point—

I could go on to any SW message board, this one included, and say— “Man, I think Speilberg (or Nolan, or Scorsese) should direct a SW movie.” People might agree, disagree, argue, tell me I’m stupid— whatever.

Nine times out of ten, if I went to the same places and said ”Man, I think Jordon Peele (or Katherine Bigalow, or Patty Jenkins) should direct a SW movie” the reaction would be UGH— WHY DO YOU HAVE TO MAKE POLITICAL WE JUST NEED THE RIGHT DIRECTOR FOR THE RIGHT JOB!

Same statement, and yet a completely different reponse. That’s why I’ll continue to say what I say.
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#38
Metropolis

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Dr Dre is a billionaire now too thanks to his Beats sale to apple

Nope. Sitting at $860 mil net worth.

Remember when Vince McMahon hit the billion dollar mark, then when the WWE Network floundered(at first) and the stock hit put him back under the mark?

#39
Odine

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Dr Dre is a billionaire now too thanks to his Beats sale to apple

Nope. Sitting at $860 mil net worth.

Remember when Vince McMahon hit the billion dollar mark, then when the WWE Network floundered(at first) and the stock hit put him back under the mark?
Ha! I didn't know that. I bet that kind of irks Dre too haha

Edited by Odine, 11 March 2018 - 03:59 AM.


#40
Odine

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Heres my point

I could go on to any SW message board, this one included, and say Man, I think Speilberg (or Nolan, or Scorsese) should direct a SW movie. People might agree, disagree, argue, tell me Im stupid whatever.

Nine times out of ten, if I went to the same places and said Man, I think Jordon Peele (or Katherine Bigalow, or Patty Jenkins) should direct a SW movie the reaction would be UGH WHY DO YOU HAVE TO MAKE POLITICAL WE JUST NEED THE RIGHT DIRECTOR FOR THE RIGHT JOB!

Same statement, and yet a completely different reponse. Thats why Ill continue to say what I say.

I reckon people are less likely to react that way than you think. If you name a specific minority director you reckon would be good for the job then I suspect people would be like, "huh... Dunno that person will check them out". But if you go into the same place and say "*groan* not another white guy, we need someone of ethnic minority origin or a woman" of course people are going to react like you say. With a "**** all that, we just need need the right person" attitude. Nobody likes being told what to think or feel.

But it's not about not wanting diversity. I don't think anyone (here) would argue against diversity. But what is bothersome is how people crusade for diversity and bring it up every chance they get as if they have to be the champion of the underdog. In every discussion. (and I'm not specifically talking about you Tank, you're legit). I get it, the sentiment is very nice and the intention is good, but there is a massive swathe of the population who only champion these causes because it reflects well on them. As if holding up a sign that signifies political alignment, or a signifier of a perceived higher ethical caliber. And that ethical smugness is repulsive as it is hypocritical. 


Edited by Odine, 11 March 2018 - 01:09 PM.


#41
Odine

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double post


Edited by Odine, 11 March 2018 - 01:09 PM.


#42
Poe Dameron

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Nine times out of ten, if I went to the same places and said ”Man, I think Jordon Peele (or Katherine Bigalow, or Patty Jenkins) should direct a SW movie” the reaction would be UGH— WHY DO YOU HAVE TO MAKE POLITICAL WE JUST NEED THE RIGHT DIRECTOR FOR THE RIGHT JOB!

 

You did suggest Peele as a Star Wars director, and no one said anything like that.

 

Anyway, I think there's a substantial difference between "this person might make a good Star Wars movie" and complaining that each one doesn't fall into a certain category.  There may have been some grumblings, but I doubt it would have been controversial if Patty Jenkins had been enticed over to direct Episode IX last fall on the back of pulling off the miracle of a successful DC movie.  Would have been seen as an upgrade from Treverrow at least.

 

Same thing with Kathryn Bigelow.  Though last I checked, her liberal Hollywood cred got shredded because she was supposedly pro-torture.  Hence why the first woman Best Director didn't become a hot commodity like Jenkins has.

 

Myself, I'd kinda like to see what Robert Rodriguez would do with a Star Wars film, but that might just be me.  I don't know if it would have been a disaster or awesome, but him directing the Solo movie would have immediately made it a more interesting prospect.  Though, oddly enough, Mexican directors have been somewhat immune to this whole issue.  They've sorta just been organically accepted by Hollywood and audiences in the past 20 years or so with big box office and awards in a slew of genres with little fanfare either way (just the way I like).  If Rodriguez, or especially Del Torro or Cuaron were attached to Star Wars, it might well come across as a non-story.

 

Also, I've gotta mention since it seems to have been forgotten that Star Wars does have a woman with a writing credit.  Even if much of her first draft was discarded and it was a bit of an honorary credit, Leigh Brackett did happen.  Plus Gloria Katz, Carrie Fisher, and Marcia Lucas all made some unknown, uncredited level of contributions to the writing duties each.


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#43
Tank

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Heres my point

I could go on to any SW message board, this one included, and say Man, I think Speilberg (or Nolan, or Scorsese) should direct a SW movie. People might agree, disagree, argue, tell me Im stupid whatever.

Nine times out of ten, if I went to the same places and said Man, I think Jordon Peele (or Katherine Bigalow, or Patty Jenkins) should direct a SW movie the reaction would be UGH WHY DO YOU HAVE TO MAKE POLITICAL WE JUST NEED THE RIGHT DIRECTOR FOR THE RIGHT JOB!

Same statement, and yet a completely different reponse. Thats why Ill continue to say what I say.

I reckon people are less likely to react that way than you think. If you name a specific minority director you reckon would be good for the job then I suspect people would be like, "huh... Dunno that person will check them out". But if you go into the same place and say "*groan* not another white guy, we need someone of ethnic minority origin or a woman" of course people are going to react like you say. With a "**** all that, we just need need the right person" attitude. Nobody likes being told what to think or feel.

But it's not about not wanting diversity. I don't think anyone (here) would argue against diversity. But what is bothersome is how people crusade for diversity and bring it up every chance they get as if they have to be the champion of the underdog. In every discussion. (and I'm not specifically talking about you Tank, you're legit). I get it, the sentiment is very nice and the intention is good, but there is a massive swathe of the population who only champion these causes because it reflects well on them. As if holding up a sign that signifies political alignment, or a signifier of a perceived higher ethical calibre. And that ethical smugness is repulsive as it is hypocritical. (like vegans who reject meat on ethical grounds but consume **** tonnes of soy based proteins and other vegetable crops which destroy vast environments and natural animal habitats all over the world. Due to the production to meet demand of smug western vegans)

I hear you, but changes don't happen if people don't have the conversation.

#44
Odine

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People could also watch more "foreign" films or "world" cinema so the profile of other directors, writers etc would raise thereby giving more chance at Hollywood opportunities. Instead of say, not doing that.

Or support local minority filmmakers by like.. Going to their films. Support through direct action rather than by being vocal.

Edited by Odine, 11 March 2018 - 01:28 PM.


#45
Tank

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At the end of the day-- that is the problem with everything in Hollywood-- the unwashed masses who want the same, safe thing, and like the same safe talent.

#46
Odine

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I agree with that statement 100%. 

 

Which is why people who say they want a change need to actually do something about it. Support the industry, and watch films made by female and minority directors, writers, producers etc. Raise the profile of young writers and directors. 

 

At the end of the day Kathleen Kennedy is only a person and has someone in Disney to answer to. Sure she hires people but she is only responsible for so much. Disney is a ridiculously large and powerful corporation. And we all know corporations as entities don't actually have souls or morals to speak of BUT  the individuals working in those corporations do. 

 

At the end of the day the hiring and firing of staff and artists is gonna be based on money. On safe bets and people with profiles. (I totally don't need to explain this to you or anyone here I don't think) But if the audience doesn't demonstrate that they want more minorities and female writers/directors/producers by spending money on their current work then its a tall order to expect Kathleen Kennedy to go out on a limb and hire someone with a really low profile, who happens to be a sick writer and a female minority. Regardless of if she really wants to!

 

I can't believe I'm actually defending a corporation, I never thought I'd do that, but as an entity at the end of the day they don't give a ****. They care about the bottom financial line, and doing enough to appear to care and appease the audience. But if consumers spoke with their wallets, instead of their rage on social media...all this might be a nicer, better story. 

 

 

The sad part is I bet for every 10 people who bang on about wanting more women and minorities in positions of power in the film industry, or cast in main roles there is probably only 2 or 3 at best who actually try do anything about it. 



#47
El Chalupacabra

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Here’s my point—

I could go on to any SW message board, this one included, and say— “Man, I think Speilberg (or Nolan, or Scorsese) should direct a SW movie.” People might agree, disagree, argue, tell me I’m stupid— whatever.

Nine times out of ten, if I went to the same places and said ”Man, I think Jordon Peele (or Katherine Bigalow, or Patty Jenkins) should direct a SW movie” the reaction would be UGH— WHY DO YOU HAVE TO MAKE POLITICAL WE JUST NEED THE RIGHT DIRECTOR FOR THE RIGHT JOB!

Same statement, and yet a completely different reponse. That’s why I’ll continue to say what I say.

Actually, I think those suggestions (Patty Jenkins especially) doing a Star Wars movie would be awesome.

 

But my point was like football players kneeling during the national anthem, mixing political discussions like who's an SJW, or the opposing side of not enough women writing or directing a Star Wars film as if that is the ONLY qualifier that should be considered,  in a forum dedicated to Star Wars story and character related debates, is not the best place to do it.  Also, I am just personally weary of EVERYTHING being a political discussion all the time, every time.  Star Wars, at least for me, is one of those forums where I can escape that.  And I don't just mean nightly.  I am sick and tired of seeing every other supposed Star Wars or sci fi youtuber taking the talking points from either Fox News or MSNBC and injecting them into Star Wars discussions.  If one wanted to have a similar discussion on the overall topic of Hollywood being inaccessible to women or minority writers, that is fine, and actually I come down on the side of those proposing more diversity in Hollywood.  But just not in a star Wars forum is all.  Maybe I am spitting hairs or whatever, I don't know.  But I just am tired of this 24 hour news cycle seeping into something that is supposed to be entertaining.



#48
Filthy Jawa

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I agree it is kind of too bad that this thread never got around to actually discussing its own topic, but here we are.

I get the arguments on both sides. But if I have to pick a point to stand behind, it's that in this new Disney-era of Lucasfim, that puts diversity on camera, including many strong female leads, this is the list of creative forces hired:

JJ Abrams
Gareth Edwards
Rian Johnson
Lord and Miller
Ron Howard
Colin Trevorrow
Benoit and Weiss
Jon Favreau

That's nine white guys in a row (or seven, if you'd rather count that way). Sure, it's about picking safe (the Ron Howard choice underlines that), and that's what corporations do, but there is a certain hypocracy at work, or a deceit, when a film company professes to be about diversity and only hires white men to direct.

#49
El Chalupacabra

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Well,  there certainly is a case to be made to question why someone like Patty Jenkins (ok, maybe she was busy making Wonder Woman at the time) or Katherine Bigalow didn't get a Star Wars movie, when someone as relatively unknown and inexperienced like Rian Johnson did.  But I prefer to look at it as who would be the best for the job, not whether they have a vagina or a penis.  I really don't care either way. I just want a good movie.   That said, no one is going to convince me that  Jenkins or Bigalow could NOT have done better than Johnson.  Just comparing movies like WW or Hurt Locker, which are damn good, to TLJ, which is solidly mediocre and slightly disappointing as a Star Wars Fan, prove to me that they probably would have done better than Johnson!  Clearly Rian Johnson, in my mind, wasn't ready to handle something as big as Star Wars, yet.  At least an Episode film (he could clearly handle a spin off movie).  Or, if the rumors were true that Kennedy foisted some of the unpopular elements on him, maybe that is exactly WHY he got the job, and more experienced film makers would have resisted.  Hard to say.  

 

But when it comes to a 40 year old IP like Star Wars, I can understand wanting to play it safe, too.  Which was surprising to me that Kennedy made the decision to (originally) have different directors, writers and producers do each of the episodes. And without a mapped outline from beginning to end, to boot.  In fact, I would say that was kind of short sighted.  Since JJ Abrams at the time he was tapped (and I suppose he still is) for Star Wars was one of the hottest picks with the most buzz around him, and since the Kasdens were involved with TFA already, that LFL and Disney didn't just have that team do all three episode films.  



#50
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Well,  there certainly is a case to be made to question why someone like Patty Jenkins (ok, maybe she was busy making Wonder Woman at the time) or Katherine Bigalow didn't get a Star Wars movie

 

It's easy to say Patty Jenkins now.  But, until last summer, she'd only made one film in her life and that was 15 years ago and nowhere near on the (production) level of a Star Wars film.  Even still, Disney tried getting her in the family, but she quit the Thor movie before the ink was dry.

 

As I mentioned, I think Bigelow's problem isn't that she's a woman but that she failed a Hollywood purity test because she was accused of being pro-torture.  It's not even like Zero Dark Thirty was a fluke.  She's been in the game a long time and you'd think she'd have her pick of projects after two straight critically acclaimed movies.  She should have been seen as both hot and safe.





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