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Game of Thrones Producers Making Star Wars Films


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#26
Filthy Jawa

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As far as it goes, I don't think Johnson was particularly messing with the audience in a trollish way.  He was just left with all these silly mystery boxes that were empty and worked with them as best he could.


Okay, that's one way to looks at it. Are you really saying Rian Johnson isn't talented enough to come up with better follow-through on JJ's (allegedly-poor) set-ups? I find that a little hard to believe. I'm sure if someone had made that my full-time job, I could have come up with a few ideas better than those. Unless I made a conscious decision to f with people's expectations in the name of 'art'.

#27
The Choc

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I'm not crazy about how much of a buffoon Hux is shown to be in the first sequence of the movie but I do think showing him as a weak leader works going back to a plot thread from TFA.

 

Han near the end of TFA tells Kylo that Snoke doesn't care about him, is only using him for his power and will throw him away when hes done with him. Now this doesn't turn Kylo back to good but I think he does sense the truth of the statement. Now go to TLJ, we see Hux as a weak leader in the first sequence. Then the first thing Snoke says to Kylo is basically how weakness properly sharpened is a powerful took, referring to Hux. I think Kylo takes this and pairs this with what his father told him. "Am I weakness sharpened too? Am I just a sharpened tool like Hux?" He realizes that yeah, thats basically it. Now he doesn't use this conclusion to do what you'd hope and turn back to the good side but he does use this conclusion later in the movie when he decides to kill Snoke.

 

So really atlhough I don't love just how much of a buffoon Hux is made to be early in TLJ I do think showing him to be weak works back and with one of the most important and best scenes in TFA. 

Interesting thought and I won't dispute it.

 

It is still a concern, though, that it means that both Hux and Kylo Ren are tools for a greater power.  As mentioned earlier, neither are particularly threatening as the top level boss and it damages them as threats going forward.  It almost feels as though you don't need the Resistance as these two are going to bring down the New Order as the lone power in the galaxy via their own set of flaws.

 

 

We are still seeing Kylo's rise to ultimate power though. You said in this thread you think they will do an Episode X, as do I. I still think Kylo is in ascension. He is still working towards becoming sort of an ultimate bad guy yet. 



#28
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As far as it goes, I don't think Johnson was particularly messing with the audience in a trollish way.  He was just left with all these silly mystery boxes that were empty and worked with them as best he could.


Okay, that's one way to looks at it. Are you really saying Rian Johnson isn't talented enough to come up with better follow-through on JJ's (allegedly-poor) set-ups? I find that a little hard to believe. I'm sure if someone had made that my full-time job, I could have come up with a few ideas better than those. Unless I made a conscious decision to f with people's expectations in the name of 'art'.

 

He is trying to subvert expectations but not in some trollish way. Just in a "hey it's not exactly what you all think" kind of way. I mean its the same for the characters  themselves. Look at Poe. Movie starts and he is flying his ship around, blowing crap up, joking with Hux, talking to his droid, finding Finn in a leaking body suit, taking down a Dreadnaught. He is having fun! This is Star Wars! It's awesome! Yee Haw!!! Then he literally gets slapped back to reality in his next sequence. 

 

That's basically what Johnson is trying to do throughout the movie. But really by the end most of the important characters are pretty much where I expected them to be at the start of the movie. 



#29
Filthy Jawa

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Yeah, I mean would you rather a movie go exactly the way you figure it will?


 But really by the end most of the important characters are pretty much where I expected them to be at the start of the movie. 



#30
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That's a little rough of an assessment. Season 6 was also past Martin's work and has a few of the best episodes of the series, including probably the #1 best episode "The Winds of Winter." And even season 7 which isn't one of my favorite seasons I wouldn't go anywhere near calling a face plant. 

Yeah I agree - if anything I think the series has gotten stronger and more focused since they've gone past the books. An argument can be made about whether or not the quality is that great (even though I personally think it is, aside from some hiccups) but since the start of season 6 at least they've had an end goal in mind and they've been working towards wrapping something up. I don't doubt they'd have some roadmap in place for a series of Star Wars films. 

 

RJ I can see free flowing and writing the trilogy as he goes. Not a discredit to him, I think it's one of his strengths as a writer. These two on the other hand are big on foreshadowing and the like, they'll probably have the end in mind before they start the first one. 



#31
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Okay, that's one way to looks at it. Are you really saying Rian Johnson isn't talented enough to come up with better follow-through on JJ's (allegedly-poor) set-ups? I find that a little hard to believe.

 

I'm saying that trying to make Phasma a thing or inserting Maz wasn't his primary goal.  Nor should it have been.  If you start giving plot threads to undeveloped characters just for the sake of expectations, you're going to have a lot of spinning your wheels and wasting time.  Johnson did let himself be distracted by giving Finn his own sidequest because he's one of the "Big 3" even though it didn't fit into the movie at all.  Look how that turned out.

 

If Abrams doesn't have something to do with DJ, I won't consider it playing with audience expectations either.  Although, I'd point out that the reason that no one will even notice if DJ or those children or whoever don't make it back is because Johnson gave them complete, if short, stories and the audience wasn't left wondering what the heck they were supposed to be about.

 

In the end, the problem isn't Johnson.  It's that Abrams is a hack who likes to leave shiny objects out for easily impressed people with no plan as to how they fit into the grand scheme or how to pay them off.  I thought Johnson did pretty much the best he could do with a lot of them.  I mean, how much more could he have gotten out of Rey's parents being nothing?  But he managed to turn that into a central theme of the story.



#32
Mara Jade Skywalker

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I know nothing about Game of Thrones (heh), so I really have no opinion on this, other than the lack of diversity in Star Wars writing and directing is still very, very disappointing.
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#33
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Whatever.


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#34
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I know nothing about Game of Thrones (heh), so I really have no opinion on this, other than the lack of diversity in Star Wars writing and directing is still very, very disappointing.


Diversity in ideas you mean? I'd agree.

#35
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Abrams is a hack who likes to leave shiny objects out for easily impressed people with no plan as to how they fit into the grand scheme or how to pay them off


Okay, fair point. But I still think RJ could have done better. Give Abrams some blame, but if RJ makes a clunky movie (see Finn example you gave) you can't just throw up your hands and say, "well he did the best he could with what Abrams gave him..."

I know nothing about Game of Thrones (heh), so I really have no opinion on this, other than the lack of diversity in Star Wars writing and directing is still very, very disappointing.


That's a very good point. Disappointing response.

#36
El Chalupacabra

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They've said Rian Johnson is making a trilogy-- but they didn't say that was the case for B+W-- the said a 3-picture deal. They could be handling a trio of one-offs, or making standalone films with the same characters.

Basically what we're getting now is the EU in screen form.

Well, I think if they hired B+W for 3 films, and those films are not connected, what a waste.  You hire the guys responsible for one of the most serialized cable TV shows ever, and then have them produce 3 separate films?  No I have to believe they were hired to do a trilogy.  Doesn't make sense otherwise, at least to me.



#37
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I know nothing about Game of Thrones (heh), so I really have no opinion on this, other than the lack of diversity in Star Wars writing and directing is still very, very disappointing.

Diversity in ideas you mean? I'd agree.

Lol, no. I'm not going to argue about it though because people already think I'm the SJW harpy around here.
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#38
El Chalupacabra

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I know nothing about Game of Thrones (heh), so I really have no opinion on this, other than the lack of diversity in Star Wars writing and directing is still very, very disappointing.

But do we know that for sure?   Just because B+W and Johnson were chosen as writers/producers doesn't mean there isn't diversity, or women writers involved.   From what I understand, at least, there are dozens of writers involved with movies, and  maybe there will be women writers will be involved,  but just haven't been hired yet due to this being the early stages of the film process.  



#39
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I know nothing about Game of Thrones (heh), so I really have no opinion on this, other than the lack of diversity in Star Wars writing and directing is still very, very disappointing.

Diversity in ideas you mean? I'd agree.

Lol, no. I'm not going to argue about it though because people already think I'm the SJW harpy around here.

 

I can see why you would take issue with the above hiring decision considering you are a writer yourself.  And it is a valid concern.   I was just trying to be optimistic for a change.  



#40
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If I'm wrong, then I'll be happy about it, trust me! I try to be optimistic, too. But it's frustrating to constantly hear "it'll happen, wait for it!" or "they're just hiring the right people for the job," like talented minority filmmakers don't exist. (Especially when people like Taika Waititi, Ryan Coogler, Patty Jenkins, Ava Duverney, and Jordan Peele have been garnering so much acclaim lately.) And ESPECIALLY when Kathleen Kennedy is helming the franchise and talks about the importance of diversity in all aspects of filmmaking. I understood and defended the ideas behind hiring JJ Abrams for Episode IX (he started the trilogy), and Rian Johnson for developing a new trilogy (they liked what he did for TLJ), and Ron Howard to step in for Solo (they wanted someone with a proven history to get the movie back on track). But now, to continue to pitch entirely new Star Wars concepts and ideas? Star Wars is a license to print money. They can hire anyone they want. I respect the hell out of Kennedy, but she needs to start putting her money where her mouth is.

 

All that all said, I don't think this is the end of the world and I still love Star Wars. 


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#41
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Well look at it like this:  the Johnson trilogy and B+W "trilogy" or 3 films is a ways off.  Things could change, like episode 9 did, for example.  Also, I am sure there will be more films besides those 6, the Obi Wan film, and Episode 9.  



#42
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I know nothing about Game of Thrones (heh), so I really have no opinion on this, other than the lack of diversity in Star Wars writing and directing is still very, very disappointing.

But do we know that for sure?   Just because B+W and Johnson were chosen as writers/producers doesn't mean there isn't diversity, or women writers involved.   From what I understand, at least, there are dozens of writers involved with movies, and  maybe there will be women writers will be involved,  but just haven't been hired yet due to this being the early stages of the film process.  

Theres no other writers involved when your writer/directors are at this level, unless somebody is needed for rewrites later.
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#43
Poe Dameron

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Disappointing response.

 

Whatever.



#44
Tank

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If I'm wrong, then I'll be happy about it, trust me! I try to be optimistic, too. But it's frustrating to constantly hear "it'll happen, wait for it!" or "they're just hiring the right people for the job," like talented minority filmmakers don't exist. (Especially when people like Taika Waititi, Ryan Coogler, Patty Jenkins, Ava Duverney, and Jordan Peele have been garnering so much acclaim lately.) And ESPECIALLY when Kathleen Kennedy is helming the franchise and talks about the importance of diversity in all aspects of filmmaking. I understood and defended the ideas behind hiring JJ Abrams for Episode IX (he started the trilogy), and Rian Johnson for developing a new trilogy (they liked what he did for TLJ), and Ron Howard to step in for Solo (they wanted someone with a proven history to get the movie back on track). But now, to continue to pitch entirely new Star Wars concepts and ideas? Star Wars is a license to print money. They can hire anyone they want. I respect the hell out of Kennedy, but she needs to start putting her money where her mouth is.
 
All that all said, I don't think this is the end of the world and I still love Star Wars.


I would imagine the OMG SHE'S AN SJW WITH A FEMINIST AGENDA crowd might have head explosions when you point out she's only hired white men.

I'd love to see Katherine Bigelow do a Star Wars movie. She seems to have the right pedigree and sensibility.
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#45
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Plus, it's not like Rian Johnson and Gareth Edwards had a ton of movies under their belts before being hired to make Star Wars movies. 



#46
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Like Saturn, the Revolution devours its children.



#47
Filthy Jawa

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Make America Great Again!
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#48
Poe Dameron

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Fine, whatever.  Kennedy hates women and the blacks.  She should be fired for her lack of purity.

 

I just don't care anymore.



#49
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If I'm wrong, then I'll be happy about it, trust me! I try to be optimistic, too. But it's frustrating to constantly hear "it'll happen, wait for it!" or "they're just hiring the right people for the job," like talented minority filmmakers don't exist. (Especially when people like Taika Waititi, Ryan Coogler, Patty Jenkins, Ava Duverney, and Jordan Peele have been garnering so much acclaim lately.) And ESPECIALLY when Kathleen Kennedy is helming the franchise and talks about the importance of diversity in all aspects of filmmaking. I understood and defended the ideas behind hiring JJ Abrams for Episode IX (he started the trilogy), and Rian Johnson for developing a new trilogy (they liked what he did for TLJ), and Ron Howard to step in for Solo (they wanted someone with a proven history to get the movie back on track). But now, to continue to pitch entirely new Star Wars concepts and ideas? Star Wars is a license to print money. They can hire anyone they want. I respect the hell out of Kennedy, but she needs to start putting her money where her mouth is.
 
All that all said, I don't think this is the end of the world and I still love Star Wars. 

It's really nice Taika Waititi (Cohen) gets referenced like this for his skill as a director. I don't know of the others you bring up, but perhaps I've seen their work.
 
I grew up in New Zealand (the same country as Taika), and in fact he used to come into my shop quite a bit for coffee and food. Both in Auckland a few times and the shop I worked in London. 
 
In NZ we don't have half the racial tension/problems the US and Europe has. I mean there will always be imbalances but nothing to the extent of the civil rights and upheaval of feeling in the US right now. I think that is for many reasons, all of which I won't get into, but one of those is the NZ government has spent the best part of the last 20-30 years atoning for European treatment of Maori in the form of reparations and  the preservation of Maori culture under NZ law and education. The government has done quite a lot (some would probably still say not enough, and fair play), to make Maori culture a national treasure and something to be protected. (when compared to many other countries and their treatment of their indigenous population). 
All that said.. Taika Waititi (and I dont want to speak for him here) is pretty much a middle class white guy. YES his dad is Maori. YES he's got brown skin. But he's also pretty well off financially (and I know nothing about his childhood so can't speak to that) and for all intents and purposes has the life of an upper middle class NZ citizen. That he has brown skin is just what it is. Circumstantial. If he should be hired as a director it should be because he is a good director. Not because he is a good "minority" director. Handing people work because they fit that criteria is kind of disrespectful in that it seems like throwing a person a bone, as if they need special help from the white establishment, when in fact his merit as a director and writer is enough to get him work. Irrespective of the pigmentation of his skin. Which is what this comes down to. People consider him a minority because of his skin colour not because of his heritage.  Im 1/2 Norwegien, 1/4 Dutch and the rest 2nd generation New Zealand/British (a cultural "minority").  My cultural heritage is as varied as Taika Waititi's but because it is not reflected in the pigmentation of my skin (other than the fact I am more pale than most) I for all intents and purposes am generic white dude. And that's fine, no problem here with that.. I don't particularly care my life isn't effected either way and I don't want any recognition or special treatment or understanding.  But the only reason you (people) recognize Mr Waititi as having a "minority" heritage is because he is brown. And he's got an "ethnic" name ( and so do I and many other Europeans living in countries that are not their ethnic origin) . Never mind that Maori culture and heritage goes much deeper than the pigmentation of skin. Not to mention the fact many Maori have pale skin now, as centuries of ethnic mixing and genetics will provide. That makes them no less Maori than Mr Waititi, yet it makes them less distinguishable particularly to the perception of an outsider.
 
So what is my point?
 
My point is (and I don't want to speak for him but I'm going out on a limb) I don't think Mr Waititi would wish to be viewed or be given worked based on being a "minority" director.  To do so implies that his heritage has been a burden on his life and that he would require special help and treatment. I suspect many Maori and Pacific islanders might find that insulting.
Going out on another limb here... I suspect many people of ethnic minorities working in film and various media would prefer to not have their ethnic heritage taken into consideration at all. That they get the job based on merit, not because it makes a politically savvy move for the white establishment to throw "them" a bone. Especially since our (white establishment) perception of what constitutes "them" is as superficial as skin pigmentation and a "funny" name, not the deep and rich cultural practices and heritage that are invisible to the eye, but are the core aspects of ethnic heritage and identity. 
 
Apologies to Taika Waititi to be used as my reference to make this point. If I spoke out of turn I apologise. But I felt it needed to be said, because I kind of feel strongly about this.
 
And once again I've derailed a thread. I didn't mean to! Honest. Its all relevant and part of the natural flow of conversation and all that. 
 

Edited by Odine, 08 February 2018 - 04:08 AM.

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#50
El Chalupacabra

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Well, this thread got Lyceumed pretty quickly...


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