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Jedi sitting on their asses


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This isn't a thread to bitch about the writing. What happened, happened.

 

How do you feel about Luke repeating what Yoda and OB1 did decades before in which he created a big mess but then sat on his ass for years while millions of people died his mistakes and other people had to suffer and die to clean up HIS mess?

 

Yoda and OB1 did it. Now Luke did it. Do you blame one but not the other? Blame both? Blame neither? Just curious where people land on this.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

Well, I never really blamed Yoda.

 

Luke is another matter. The thing is, I grew up with heroes or people I looked up to (sports, actors/entertainers, even people in my life) and one by one, all let me down or were to be shown to be scum bags in some way. One thing that never let me dow was Star Wars and especially Luke Skywalker. He was the infallible Gallahad-like hero in my life. Sad commentary on life really is that heroes always seem to let you down.

 

And now, it seems even Luke Skywalker has let me down. I think that is what upset me the most about the portrayal. That's not intended as a complain. Just answering your question as to how it made me feel, and it wasn't very good. But again, I would like to say Mark Hamill's portrayal was excellent.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

I think that Luke makes more sense. He basically went into major depression and thought the galaxy was better offf without him.

I am going to place my response in spoiler tags, just to be safe.

I am talking more about the incident with Kylo specifically. The depression and self exile, I am more okay with, though I was disappointed to see that in TFA, we are lead to believe he was trying to find answers as to what made Kylo go evil, in TLJ, we find out Luke just retired from life and the rest of the Galaxy, and Luke was the reason Kylo went (fully) evil. And he didn't even bother to read those page turners. WTF?

 

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in TFA, we are lead to believe he was trying to find answers as to what made Kylo go evil

 

The only person who guesses at Luke's whereabouts is Han, and he says that Luke felt responsible for Kylo and walked away. Han was correct about Luke searching for the Jedi Temple, but there's no indication that Luke went there to find out about Kylo Ren's fall.

 

BTW, that whole map plot device makes like zero sense now. It was always odd that Luke provided a cryptic map for his hidey hole that somehow ended up in a random ally of Leia's possession, but now even Luke doesn't seem to have a clue how anyone found him.

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In fairness, Yoda and Obi-Wan did make the attempt. Yoda failed and, presumably, decided that Palpatine was too powerful to take on by them. So they played the waiting game.

I get what you're saying but imagine how much good Yoda and OB1 could have done as major rebel leaders. Even if just in a command role. How many lives they could have saved. It's always bothered me.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

 

In fairness, Yoda and Obi-Wan did make the attempt. Yoda failed and, presumably, decided that Palpatine was too powerful to take on by them. So they played the waiting game.

I get what you're saying but imagine how much good Yoda and OB1 could have done as major rebel leaders. Even if just in a command role. How many lives they could have saved. It's always bothered me.

 

In ROTJ, Luke states he is endangering the mission because Vader could sense him. Perhaps Obi Wan and Yoda believed they would do the same.

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In fairness, Yoda and Obi-Wan did make the attempt. Yoda failed and, presumably, decided that Palpatine was too powerful to take on by them. So they played the waiting game.

I get what you're saying but imagine how much good Yoda and OB1 could have done as major rebel leaders. Even if just in a command role. How many lives they could have saved. It's always bothered me.

 

I always thought it was so there would be someone left to train the Skywalker twins when they got older. Why else go into hiding and watch over one of them?

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It never bothered me that Obi Wan and Yoda went into exhile because, as CoLA said, they had a purpose to hide. They wanted to ensure they'd be around for when the time came to train the twins to defeat the Sith. Putting themselves in full Rebel Command risked this higher calling. Besides, as we've seen in R1 and Rebels, the Alliance wasn't even much of a force yet to be a real threat to the Empire anyway. How much of a difference they could've made at that point is debatable. By the time the Rebels finally are up to the task, it's reached the point the Jedi had been waiting for all along anyway-putting Luke and Leia front and center.

Now Luke on the other hand...he had no reason to hide. It bugs me to no end that he caused Kylo to snap, whether it was his fault or not, and then just sits back as Kylo joins the FO and helps it grow (unlike Yoda and Kenobi having to hide from an Empire that was already fully in control of the galaxy) and run roughshod through the galaxy, leaving Leia to deal with the mess he helped cause.

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It never bothered me that Obi Wan and Yoda went into exhile because, as CoLA said, they had a purpose to hide. They wanted to ensure theyd be around for when the time came to train the twins to defeat the Sith. Putting themselves in full Rebel Command risked this higher calling.

It made sense to me why Obi Wan hid to watch over Luke, but it did not make sense for me why Yoda went in exile to Dagobah. Would he be able to leave Dagobah in that spaceship he arrived in if necessary? Also, Yoda seemed pretty hesitant to train Luke initially. He only agreed after Obi Wan and Luke convinced him.

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Obi-Wan went to tatooine with a purpose: watch over Luke. In addition, this mission also served as a sort of penance for his failures, but at least there was a purpose. Watch over the boy. He will be a threat to Vader, and he knows this as said in ROTJ. He didn't train him however, not at first. He waited for Luke to make his own decisions, as per ANH. Perhaps his guilt prevented him from training Luke as a young age; due to his failures with Anakin he didn't have complete confidence in himself, or Luke for that matter. After all he's the dark lord's son, maybe training him isn't the wisest choice; so he adopted a wait-and-see approach.

 

Yoda, on the other hand...he just peaced out. He wasn't protecting anything. He could have watched over Leia, he didn't. He just kind of watched young Luke from his slimy mud hole, but never decided it was worth training anybody. Force Obi-Wan had to convince Yoda to train Luke. It probably took years of convincing too, and not just one on-screen arguement in ESB.

 

Luke, like Yoda, peaced out, but he did even less to make amends. He also cut himself off from the force. This probably means he couldn't see force ghosts anymore. Luke was far more directly responsible for the failure as he pushed a Kylo over the edge by almost doing something terrible.

 

Obi-Wan was indirectly responsible, Yoda even less so (although he felt far more responsible for it, because he was the big cheese, amd he has a huge heart). Obi-Wan's exile never bothered me, but always struck me as odd. Whatever, it's a movie. Yoda on the other hand may have bothered me a tiny bit, because he was basically did nothing and was unreachable. The rebellion called out to Obi-Wan, not Yoda.

 

Luke's exile does bother me a bit, because he's turning his back on the galaxy after he screwed it up.

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By the way, I wrote about this exact subject months ago when we were all in the midst of discussing the trailer and...

 

I am going to really hate this movie if it turns out Luke was hiding just to hide. He better have a purpose for disappearing. Searching for some truth in the old temple, protecting something that can't fall into the wrong hands, I don't care what it is. But if he went into hiding just to live out his final years so that with his death the Jedi can end, that's going to be crap. TFA already made Han into a deadbeat dad. Now TLJ is going to make Luke into the effed up uncle? He failed in training his nephew and sees him become the new Darth Vader, and his solution to make this right is to go off and die? Kenobi and Yoda went into hiding with a purpose. They had to bide their time and wait for the right moment to spring Luke on Vader and the Emperor to fix their mistakes from years past. Luke better have a similar reason for all this.

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