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The Star Wars Episode 9 speculation and things you want to see thread (TLJ spoilers)


229 replies to this topic

#51
Quetzalcoatl

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Republic confusion / First Order history. Post Starkiller attack, post TLJ resistance-killing, I'm really confused about the socio-political scene of the galaxy. I don't need PT levels of politico-senate scenes. I would just love a simple, straight-forward explanation along the lines of "The First Order formed in a corner of the galaxy where all the last remaining Empire forces stayed strong. Snoke stepped up to lead them, and rebranded them while the Republic slowly restored itself. The First Order grew, the Republic didn't want to get involved, Leia decided that was bull so she went to First Order controlled space to build a resistance. Now, with the Republic capital gone, and the First Order growing stronger, one final push has to be made to show the rest of the galaxy they need to be stopped.

 

What I never understood is, where was the Republic's army?  Why was the FO fighting a small resistance movement instead of an army?  Did the Republic, in the thirty years between trilogies, just never form one?  


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#52
El Chalupacabra

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What I never understood is, where was the Republic's army?  Why was the FO fighting a small resistance movement instead of an army?  Did the Republic, in the thirty years between trilogies, just never form one?  

 

Thank you!

 

There is a quick line in TFA that explains it...sort of.  Apparently the entire Republic army and fleet war just hanging out in the Hosnian System, which also happens to be the capital system, waiting to get blown to bits.  So, i guess that also means that there were no other military bases anywhere else within the republic.  Just doesn't make sense to me.


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#53
Quetzalcoatl

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Ah! Thanks for clearing that up. I didn't catch that when seeing TFA. But then why was there a resistance movement at all if the republic had an army?  If Poe, for example, wanted to fight the FO, why not enlist in the army?  I get the need for a resistance after the destruction of the Republic's capital, but why did it exist in the first place?



#54
Poe Dameron

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I didn't catch that when seeing TFA.

 

That's because it wasn't actually stated TFA.  We saw some ships explode, but nothing to tell us that it was the whole fleet.

 

The new trilogy doesn't like to explain stuff.  Who's Snoke?  How did Snoke corrupt Ben while training with Luke?  What's with the Resistance and where's the Republic's armed forces?  Why isn't Anakin/Luke's lightsaber being crushed at the center Bespin?  Where did the map to find Luke come from and how did Max von Sydow get a hold of it?  Why did R2-D2 wake up?

 

Heck if I know, and at this point I doubt we learn any of it from the movies.



#55
Tank

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It's probably talked about in a book, but I would assume that if the Republic was restored they might go back to the old ways of every planet/organization having their own military. It was a unified army/navy that let the Empire come into power. They might not be so hot to try that again, especially without the Jedi.

That said, the Alliance had a military structure that could have moved into place.
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#56
El Chalupacabra

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Ah! Thanks for clearing that up. I didn't catch that when seeing TFA. But then why was there a resistance movement at all if the republic had an army?  If Poe, for example, wanted to fight the FO, why not enlist in the army?  I get the need for a resistance after the destruction of the Republic's capital, but why did it exist in the first place?

I am vague on these details, as I have not read the new EU novels, but I have read summaries.  As I understand it (take it with a grain of salt), here's the deal with the Resistance, at least.  There are EU novels that talk about what went on with Leia in between ROTJ and TFA.  After the war between the Rebels and Empire was over, the two sides claimed their territory, and entered into a tenuous peace treaty.  What was left of the Empire was reformed as the First Order.  The Republic and the First Order entered into a cold war, with the Republic war weary and capitulating to the First Order with a series of acts that amount to appeasement.  Leia attempts to warn the Republic that the First Order is up to something and will eventually fight another war to reconquer the galaxy.  No one listens (I think because it became public knowledge she was Vader's daughter).  Frustrated, Leia, along with political and military allies form the Resistance, to take on and oppose the First Order, with the intent to expose them and convince the Republic to do something.  Officially, the Republic did not sanction the Resistance, but I believe there were some in the Republic that gave unofficial support.  This didn't exactly sit well with the First Order, and is what caused them to create Starkiller Base. 


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#57
Quetzalcoatl

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Why did R2-D2 wake up?

 

When watching TFA, I assumed that Luke somehow put R2 to sleep (presumably with the force), with instructions not to wake up until so much time had passed.  I based this on Rey's vision of a hooded Luke touching R2. I also figured that this had something to do with R2 having a piece of the map of Luke's whereabouts.  But now, none of it makes any sense.  I'm now guessing that Luke didn't create the map given that he obviously didn't want to be found.  So where did the map come from?



#58
Lord Darth Hunter

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Does anyone think they're doing this on purpose? Making it so that you have to read the books to keep up with the plot of the films? I say this because a friend of mine does like to read all the books and she said in the Leia book Holdo knows the Force and secretly trained Leia some stuff, which explains her space walk.



#59
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No.

That's absurd. Hollywood doesn't give a **** about spinoff books. The amount of money they make off the books is enough to warrant doing it, but they know only hardcore Star Wars fans would bother. The profit from one book is covered by about two movie tickets.

I've literally been saying this for almost 20 years-- no director, writer, or producer that functions at the level Lucasfilm does in Hollywood would ever, EVER, decide to base a plot point for the sheer purpose of selling a book. THEY DO NOT CARE. It is bad filmmaking to do so.

Say what you will about JJ, Rian, or Kathleen-- but they are professionals who have been making movies well before they got to Star Wars.

There's never a situation in which a profession filmmaker looks at their edit and sees a plot hole and says "this will be covered in a book, don't worry." They either don't recognize there's a plot hole, or they plan to address it down the road.

Even Lucas attempted to cover himself-- he just wasn't good at it. Sifo Dyas was meant to be Sidious, then he was meant to be followed up on in ROTS, but by then a book had covered it to save his ass.

The books will ALWAYS follow and play clean up. They will never inform the movies.
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#60
Lord Darth Hunter

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Good to know. I guess I was thinking of trying to give them an out for the mess they made with TLJ.

#61
Mara Jade Skywalker

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Admiral Antilles, please.
 

The only problem I know of with Wedge is that I believe Lawson wants nothing to do with the movies.

He attended the last Star Wars Celebration (his first time at one) and was flabbergasted by how much everyone loved Wedge. I would not be surprised if he changed his mind about wanting to be in a new movie.

#62
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I want to know why Kylo reveres Vader so much, or the story behind that. They touched on it a little with Snoke wanting Kylo to be the new Vader but the impression I got was Snoke had used that before as a way to lure him in, knowing Kylo already had an obsession. I'm hoping there is more to it than just wanting to be a bad ass like Grandpa but at this point I doubt they will explore it any further.



#63
Odine

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Said it in the "Ive seen TLJ thread"  but I'll say it here too. 

 

Kylo needs to step it up and become the Dark Lord he needs to be so this franchise has an awe-inspiring terrifying villain. 

 

This can happen through a time-jump but also through his new found resolve and actions. But I also think he needs a look update. 

 

Vader's mask in the OT was scary as ****. And we never saw his face. He was designed to intimidate (but was later revealed the mask was for his survival). 

 

We already saw Kylo's face in TFA and as such the mask became little more than something for Ben to hide behind. It didn't inspire fear. At least not with me. So I think they were right to ditch the mask in TLJ.. however moody Kylo with floppy hair is far from awe inspiring or terrifying. He needs to look more ravaged. Like his quest for power and strength has taken its toll on him physically...at least externally.. give him a completely bald head (either shaved or maybe he accidentaly force-lightening'd it off while testing abilities) and some ****ed up arcane dark side tatoos on his cranium or something... I'm not bound to these ideas I must add.. they are just ideas to make him look more scary...

 

because this: 

malgus.jpg.jpg2729409-2699536_darthmalgus_super.jpg?w=

 

 

Is a **** load more scary than this

 

e34807202be5c3ab65954b0984d3f8bf.jpg


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#64
Mara Jade Skywalker

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Kylo is scary because of what's in his head. He's not Vader. He's a child in a mask. That's the whole point. 


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#65
D-Ray Kenobi

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I'm no Rian or JJ, but if I was tasked with an outline, here's the main points I'd hit on.
 

  • Time Jump - This would allow for some natural plot progression, but would also be a sensible and respectful way to explain why Leia isn't around anymore.  Perhaps the Rebellion has built up a little more strength and Rey has started to train a padawan or two.
     
  • Rey - I think her story from here is the most interesting plotline that could be explored.  Now she really is the last Jedi and is the last student of Luke who hasn't turned. That's pretty heavy for a twenty year old kid to deal with, she'll have to fight with herself over not making the same mistakes Luke did.  Does she start training young Jedi like Luke did?  Does she want to re-establish the Jedi Order of old or start her own new thing? 
     
  • Force Ghosts - Luke's arc is more or less resolved, but he obviously can't leave Rey on her own.  She only has a few days worth of training and some old books.  Even if she's going to define what Jedi are for a new generation, she's going to need some pointers and advice every now and then.  She will only have heard of Yoda's name in passing, so I don't see much point in having him come around for her, especially since he got such a great curtain call in VIII.  But I do see a lot of value in bringing Anakin in to speak with her.  Luke's dad and Ben's grandpa is someone who could do a lot to help and give insight.  Plus, it would be a huge way to give him further resolution and atone for his mistakes in what will most likely be the last Skywalker saga film.
     
  • War Resolution - The Resistance / Rebellion can't ever be at OT levels of strength again.  Not when all that was left was a dozen or so people on board the Falcon.  If this is the last saga film, the whole evil empire / space nazi organization has to be completely wiped out to not allow for loose ends.  I think the best way to deal with this is not through all out war, but through things like guerrilla ops and double agents.  That would allow for something way different than just another attack on a superweapon or capital ship.
     
  • Skywalker Family - I am personally still not 100% convinced that Rey isn't a Skywalker of some sort.  I think it's still entirely possible that Kylo and Snoke were lying to her.  I get that there's a lot of suggestion that Rey and Kylo have a thing going on there, but it's no more suggestive than things were for Luke and Leia in Empire.  I still think it's entirely possible that they're siblings or cousins.  Even if they aren't related, I still think there's a lot of room for Rey to take the last name of Skywalker either by ending up with a redeemed Ben, or just adopting the name in general to carry it on in honor of her adopted family.

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#66
D-Ray Kenobi

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6. Jedi Finn. I'm sure people would HATE this. But what made him defy his programming/indoctrination? What led him to help on Jakku and brought him to Rey. What lets him pick up skills like gunning and piloting with relative ease. The Force is strong with Finn, so I say double down on it and make him Rey's first student... not that Rey is a master by any means-- just that they are figuring it out together.
 

I would love this.  Whether it be through the Force or not, Finn has already proven himself to be a capable badass.  His Vegas side quest in TLJ was fun, but mostly expendable.  I want to see him really play into things in a more major way.



#67
Jacen123

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Admiral Antilles, please.
 

The only problem I know of with Wedge is that I believe Lawson wants nothing to do with the movies.

He attended the last Star Wars Celebration (his first time at one) and was flabbergasted by how much everyone loved Wedge. I would not be surprised if he changed his mind about wanting to be in a new movie.

 

That's good to hear.  The possibility of him showing up in the movies aside, it's great to hear that he was so touched by fans.



#68
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Kylo is scary because of what's in his head. He's not Vader. He's a child in a mask. That's the whole point. 


But he's NOT scary. He has moments... But he's not scary.

#69
El Chalupacabra

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Said it in the "Ive seen TLJ thread"  but I'll say it here too. 

 

Kylo needs to step it up and become the Dark Lord he needs to be so this franchise has an awe-inspiring terrifying villain. 

 

This can happen through a time-jump but also through his new found resolve and actions. But I also think he needs a look update. 

 

Vader's mask in the OT was scary as ****. And we never saw his face. He was designed to intimidate (but was later revealed the mask was for his survival). 

 

We already saw Kylo's face in TFA and as such the mask became little more than something for Ben to hide behind. It didn't inspire fear. At least not with me. So I think they were right to ditch the mask in TLJ.. however moody Kylo with floppy hair is far from awe inspiring or terrifying. He needs to look more ravaged. Like his quest for power and strength has taken its toll on him physically...at least externally.. give him a completely bald head (either shaved or maybe he accidentaly force-lightening'd it off while testing abilities) and some ****ed up arcane dark side tatoos on his cranium or something... I'm not bound to these ideas I must add.. they are just ideas to make him look more scary...

 

because this: 

 

 

 

Is a **** load more scary than this

 

 

Absolutely right, Odine!  I kind of touched on this in the other thread, but Kylo needs to graduate from being the mini-boss to the monster Rey describes him as.   I like to think that as Rey closed the Falcon's door, that was symbolism that Kylo is now, officially beyond redemption.  I want to see Kylo twisted and evil.  Committing atrocities that horrify even Hux.  I want to see him committing or ordering genocide, torturing "traitors," founding a new "Order of Ren" (AKA Knights of Ren Ver 2.0) acting like Kylo's personal SS hit squad, have a cult of personality everywhere like Mao or Stalin with his face plastered everywhere (something even the Emperor didn't do), secret police following citizens everywhere, and going King Herod and killing any force sensitive children or people who refuse to join him.   I want to see his face withered and decrepit and glowing eyes of evil, as a consequence of giving himself utterly to the dark side.  I want to see Kylo just be an absolute terror.



#70
Mara Jade Skywalker

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I dunno. Kylo is pretty terrifying to me, maybe because he's basically a Gamer Gater. :p 


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#71
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I think the point is that he WANTS to be scary, he wants to be Vader-- but he's not, and he knows it. That's why he wore a mask. The only people that fear him are his subordinates.

That's where they need to go in IX-- push him into scary. And that doesn't have to be his face.
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#72
Odine

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No it doesn't have to be his face... Ultimately his actions need to do the talking. But in the visual format that is film, a terrifying visage is going to add to the impact. Just my 2 cents
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#73
El Chalupacabra

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I dunno. Kylo is pretty terrifying to me, maybe because he's basically a Gamer Gater. :p

Kylo is terrifying in that abusive boyfriend/domestic violence way for sure, but I want a true war criminal and monster. I would like to see him be as evil as a PG-13 rating can take it.  

 

 

I think the point is that he WANTS to be scary, he wants to be Vader-- but he's not, and he knows it. That's why he wore a mask. The only people that fear him are his subordinates.

That's where they need to go in IX-- push him into scary. And that doesn't have to be his face.

Agreed that he is a wannabe at this point, which is what I mean by mini-boss. 

 

But, I think seeing the dark side corrupt his face definitely should be shown.  They don't need to give him the Freddy Krueger treatment, or even as extreme as the Emperor, but I want to see the effects of the dark side on his face somehow.  



#74
Lord Darth Hunter

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In Phil Szostak's The Art of Star Wars: The Last Jedi there is concept art for a Kylo Ren look that they decided against for TLJ. Maybe they go with this for Episode IX?

Attached Thumbnails

  • Kylo Ren concept.jpg


#75
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Ummmmmm wow.



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