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The Star Wars Episode 9 speculation and things you want to see thread (TLJ spoilers)


Guest El Chalupacabra
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Guest El Chalupacabra

Hi Nightly friends!

 

You are here if you have already seen or have been spoiled on The Last Jedi. Whether you LOVED The Last Jedi, or had issues with it (Like me! Though I still like the move), there are many questions with how Episode 9 will unfold. Probably the only think known for certain is that JJ Abrams is coming back to direct Episode 9, and it seems he has pitched a story idea (surprising to me, because I thought they already had one).

 

http://collider.com/why-jj-abrams-is-directing-star-wars-9/

 

https://screenrant.com/star-wars-9-jj-abrams-story-pitch/

 

So, I would like to open up a thread here dedicated to what you all think may happen in episode 9, as well as what you hope to see in the next, possibly last, Episode film.

 

Here is what I think will likely happen and what I would like to see:

 

 

1. Time Jump: With the resistance/rebellion literally all but destroyed except for a hand full of top brass, and with Carrie Fisher unfortunately passed away, many are left to speculate how those to issues will be resolved for the final chapter in the sequel trilogy. I think the most likely, and probably the best way to handle it is a time jump. Already, there are many a fan who have said this. I am guessing a 2 to 5 year time jump may happen, and that would give the Resistance time to build up enough people to answer the call. We may even see some force wielding stable boys and girls. Also, since Carrie Fisher passed away, and since Leia was one of the survivors, they will also have to explain what happens to her. Which leads to this second point....

 

2. Handling Leia: This is an emotional issue for many, but one thing is certain, it needs to be addressed in a respectful way to explain Carrie Fisher's absence from Episode 9. TLJ sets her up for a big part in Ep 9. This is actually one of the problems I had with TLJ, because they had a year to re-edit the movie in such a way as to write Leia out somehow (I think her and Holdo should have swapped places somehow if editing allowed for it, and had Holdo take over as the leader of the resistance). Anyway, a time jump will help, and explain Leia's demise or absence off screen. But to me, just simply writing her out, doesn't quite seem adequate.

 

As for CGI, that has already been confirmed by Kathleen Kennedy that will not be done. She also stated that Carrie Fisher would not be in Episode 9, but I think this may be a mistake, that they hopefully change their minds on. I would like to see Leia in the next film, even if for a brief scene. I could be down with a small CGI shot, if done tastefully and respectfully. I have to believe that between TFA and TLJ there must exist enough cut scenes to edit an ending for Leia somehow. Maybe have her on a ship that is destroyed in the opening, or a hologram being displayed at her funeral, with a voice over?

 

3. The Legend of Luke Skywalker grows and spreads: Luke himself hammers home he was once a legend until hubris brought his Order down, and after his self imposed exile, he returns in TLJ to save the day one more time. Leia hoped this would inspire and rally people to the Resistance. I would like to see this happen. Furthermore, I want to see Luke return as a ghost, maybe to both inspire and inform Rey, and to "haunt" Kylo.

 

4. Knights of Ren Explanation: So, we never quite got a full explanation of who the Knights of Ren are, let alone see them in action. Only hinted at in Eps 7 & 8. Apparently they were the jedi who followed Kylo, and it is assumed Kylo is the last of them. We don't know what happened to them. I would love to see this explained.

 

5. The Order of Ren: So far, though Kylo Ren sees himself more as a second coming of Darth Vader, he really is a complete inversion of Luke Skywalker. Literally the anti-Luke in every way. So, now that he is the Supreme Leader, it makes sense to me that he would form his own darkside order, with himself at the head of it. I think the name The Order of Ren is kind of catchy, if I do say so myself! :)

 

6. Lando: For two films now, I have waited to see Lando Calrissian, and two times, I have been let down. If Lando is not in episode 9, even briefly, I will be very upset! We got a Maz cameo that was useless. If they are so tied to Maz, and being a scoundrel, why not at least have Lando with Maz, somehow. They could have had Lando in Maz's castle in TFA, easily. Why not at her new digs in Episode 9?

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4. Knights of Ren Explanation: So, we never quite got a full explanation of who the Knights of Ren are, let alone see them in action. Only hinted at in Eps 7 & 8. Apparently they were the jedi who followed Kylo, and it is assumed Kylo is the last of them.

Who assumed that Kylo is the last of the Knights of Ren?

 

I've seen that there are some people who have misheard the line "...the master of the Knights of Ren" (from Snoke to Kylo in TFA) as "...last of the Knights...".

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Luke's totally returning as a force ghost. "nobody's ever really gone," and "see you around kid" hint at that big time.

 

I'm surprised Lando wasn't in that TLJ casino! That's totally the place Lando would hang out. I'm kind of glad he wasn't actually. That whole story thread is the part everyone's going to fast forward through. Since were now fresh running out of OT characters, I think the odds of him appearing go up. Lando's probably loaded, and the resistance needs resources!

 

For carrie fisher, they might repurpose footage from TLJ for critical-only scenes, preferably unused footage without dialogue, then exposition her a bit, and give her character a proper send off. Maybe give her an Admiral Laura Dern kind of moment of self sacrifice, although I'm kind of all done with that. There was a ton of sacrifice in TLJ already. Maybe her internal injuries were too great from her Skywalking scene, but she ignores medical advice and keeps fighting until they get the better of her. Maybe she can somehow tie into Lando? A last-ditch effort to reach out to him for help, she doesn't make it, but it drives Lando to get off his old butt, pick up the football and run the last few yards for her and Han.

 

I thought the Knights of Ren were the Red Guards in Snoke's throne room at first, because they looked like the dudes from Rey's vision from TFA, but they definitely were not using the force. Well trained but clearly not Jedi. I'm not convinced we'll ever see them considering how TLJ treated Snoke, Phasma, etc. This trilogy is big on red herrings and one-offs.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

 

 

4. Knights of Ren Explanation: So, we never quite got a full explanation of who the Knights of Ren are, let alone see them in action. Only hinted at in Eps 7 & 8. Apparently they were the jedi who followed Kylo, and it is assumed Kylo is the last of them.

Who assumed that Kylo is the last of the Knights of Ren?

 

I've seen that there are some people who have misheard the line "...the master of the Knights of Ren" (from Snoke to Kylo in TFA) as "...last of the Knights...".

 

Obviously, based on my statement, that is my assumption. And a lot of other fans have assumed this, as well. You may remember there was speculation a while back even on nightly as to whether we would see a flashback where Luke dispatches the other Knights of Ren in TLJ (which didn't happen). Maybe it is true they are gone, maybe not. One thing is for sure, though, we don't know what happened to them, which is what I want to know. if they are still around, I want to know that, too. See my point below that, on the Order of Ren. That might be a good way to introduce the Knights of Ren, if any still exist besides Kylo.

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I thought TLJ totally set it up for Leia to not have a big role. She even says, "What are you looking at me for? Follow him!" about Poe.

 

And if they're no longer trying to redeem Kylo Ren, it's fine that she doesn't have a big role.

 

Personally I want them to put Leia on a bus somewhere. I want her to still be alive in universe when all this is over with.

 

I also want Luke to haunt Kylo the entire movie, muahahaha.

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I thought TLJ totally set it up for Leia to not have a big role. She even says, "What are you looking at me for? Follow him!" about Poe.

 

And if they're no longer trying to redeem Kylo Ren, it's fine that she doesn't have a big role.

 

Personally I want them to put Leia on a bus somewhere. I want her to still be alive in universe when all this is over with.

 

I also want Luke to haunt Kylo the entire movie, muahahaha.

Yeah, she was grooming him for leadership the entire movie.
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I would like to hear more about Rey's backstory. I don't care if she is not related to anyone important, but I still don't know why I have trouble with accepting that she was sold and left on Jakku because her parents ran out of money for a beer run. I would also like to know if she was created by the Force like Anakin. The scene in the cave made me wonder because she asked who her parents were and the cave showed her reflection. I don't know if that meant anything or the cave was trying to trick her, but I am hoping there is more to Rey's past than what we have been told so far.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

Luke's totally returning as a force ghost. "nobody's ever really gone," and "see you around kid" hint at that big time.

 

I'm surprised Lando wasn't in that TLJ casino! That's totally the place Lando would hang out. I'm kind of glad he wasn't actually. That whole story thread is the part everyone's going to fast forward through. Since were now fresh running out of OT characters, I think the odds of him appearing go up. Lando's probably loaded, and the resistance needs resources!

 

For carrie fisher, they might repurpose footage from TLJ for critical-only scenes, preferably unused footage without dialogue, then exposition her a bit, and give her character a proper send off. Maybe give her an Admiral Laura Dern kind of moment of self sacrifice, although I'm kind of all done with that. There was a ton of sacrifice in TLJ already. Maybe her internal injuries were too great from her Skywalking scene, but she ignores medical advice and keeps fighting until they get the better of her. Maybe she can somehow tie into Lando? A last-ditch effort to reach out to him for help, she doesn't make it, but it drives Lando to get off his old butt, pick up the football and run the last few yards for her and Han.

 

I thought the Knights of Ren were the Red Guards in Snoke's throne room at first, because they looked like the dudes from Rey's vision from TFA, but they definitely were not using the force. Well trained but clearly not Jedi. I'm not convinced we'll ever see them considering how TLJ treated Snoke, Phasma, etc. This trilogy is big on red herrings and one-offs.

I agree Luke will be back as a ghost. At least that is my hope.

 

When they had that shot on Canto Bright, the river ship that flies off the water fall looked almost EXACTLY LIKE Lando's Lady Luck as depicted in the video game Jedi Knight II. For a split second, I was thinking we might get a Lando Cameo. I should have known better.

 

At first, I thought the Red Guards were going to be the Knights of Ren, too, but when they were called Praetorian Guards I think back in October, I gave up that hope.

 

As for Leia's send off, I would be OK with a self sacrifice moment. I think it really depends on what kind of footage they have on the cutting room floor, as to whether that can work. The more I think about it, the more I think the time jump in conjunction with opening at her funeral, may be the best way to go.

 

But I would like to see a hologram with whatever footage they have, or maybe even a force ghost alongside Luke?

 

I don't thing they will circle back two movies to explain the Knights of Ren. But then again, maybe episode 9 takes place far enough in the future for Rey to train a few Jedi, and have her and these handful square off against Kylo and the rest of the knights of Ren.

Well, you may be right. They may just leave the Knights of Ren for a novel, maybe even CGI cartoon series. But I would like to see an Order of Ren or Knights of Ren V2, which could also provide an opportunity to explain what happened to the first crop.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

 

I thought TLJ totally set it up for Leia to not have a big role. She even says, "What are you looking at me for? Follow him!" about Poe.

 

And if they're no longer trying to redeem Kylo Ren, it's fine that she doesn't have a big role.

 

Personally I want them to put Leia on a bus somewhere. I want her to still be alive in universe when all this is over with.

 

I also want Luke to haunt Kylo the entire movie, muahahaha.

Yeah, she was grooming him for leadership the entire movie.

 

Yeah, I think Poe will be a big power player, maybe even the leader of the Resistance in Episode 9.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

Continuing on things I would like to see....

 

7. First Order defectors: While Kylo, Snoke, and Hux are unquestionably evil (though maybe Hux could possibly be redeemed...he unwillingly accepted Kylo as Supreme leader), how do we know that most of the First Order is? it must be remembered that the Empire was originally the Old Republic reorganized, and that essentially, the First Order was what was left of the Empire after the defeats at Endor and Jakku. While oppressive and brutal, there were many people who were loyal to the governments of the Empire and First order that could be argued as good people that were just indoctrinated. Much like say the average non-SS soldier was for Germany, or the average Japanese soldier was in WW2. Or the average Russian soldier under Stalin's USSR. They were people who were basically good, but indoctrinated into their government's propaganda.

 

So, it makes sense to me that maybe there are good First Order soldiers, as well. What if Kylo Ren goes so dark and evil, that entire legions defect to the Resistance? Like what if Kylo start obliterating entire solar systems on a mass scale? Right now, the First Order is so huge, that I don't see how the Resistance can hope to stand against something like that. How many survived TLJ? A hand full? Yeah, the good guys are going to need some help, and why not from some good guys, currently on the bad guy side.

 

Think of it this way: it would actually give Finn something to do, finally! I mean we have Poe, who some (like myself) feel is set up to be the leader/or one of the main leaders of the Resistance. You have Rey who is set up to establish the new Jedi way, and possibly a jedi Order. What about Finn? He is a former Stormtrooper, and I think it would be fitting if he were to be the one to bring First Order defectors to the side of the Resistance.

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And if they're no longer trying to redeem Kylo Ren, it's fine that she doesn't have a big role.

 

That's a big assumption and one that I don't think the movie really warrants. I saw nothing in the movie that made me think that this guy is just beyond redemption. I heard words stated that he is, but that doesn't mean anything. Yoda and Ben said the same about Vader. Best that can be said is that Ben's internal conflict has dissipated with his taking command. But, warped as it may be, his heart is still in the right place. His desire isn't power, it's an end to the cycle.

 

Most importantly, Rey and Ben are connected now. They fought side-by-side and it felt right to each. Like Vader for Luke, Ben wishes for Rey to join him. There was even a "Ben, you're breaking my heart" moment when he chose to continue with the New Order.

 

They'll come to blows, but I don't think either will ever be happy about it. And the outcome is far from certain.

 

What I would like to see is for their bond to continue and for them to periodically talk even as they prepare their sides for war. With Ben using their bond to lure Rey and the Resistance into a trap, while Rey anticipates and reverses the trap. From there, Rey using Ben's statements about burying the past in a more personal way. For her to somehow get him to buy into that if he strikes her down, the Force will just send another to take her place. The only way to break the cycle as he wishes is for both of them to simply walk away. Leave Poe and Hux to their battles, where it's implied that Hux will be on the losing end.

 

And that's the end of the trilogy. The two of them leave the galaxy to itself, removing the Light and Dark's eternal conflict on the sidelines (for now) as the Star Wars continue.

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I would also like to know if she was created by the Force like Anakin.

 

I like to think so. Personally, I'm happy enough with this just being hinted at, and I think the cave scene could definitely be taken as an allusion to Rey being a force creation. No need to explicitly talk about it.

 

Snoke/Kylo pretty much confirm it. As soon as she saw herself I thought she was either a clone (if it were on the nose) or she was sort of made by the Force. This time, it totally worked for me.

 

It's the same idea as Anakin, but instead of getting hung up on midichlorians, miracle conception, and prophecies, a simply, mystical explanation was given and I bought it fine. It explains her quick to come power and everything else.

 

 

She'll be dead before the movie starts. It'll be in the crawl. Maybe the movie starts with her funeral.

I have been assuming exactly this ever since she died.

 

Her death is like the theft of the Death Star plans in ANH-- we don't see it, but it sets the stage for the movie. I think IX will go the same way, Leia's death will kick off the action and plot...

 

... and 30 years later we'll get an awesome prequel based on it.

 

I would also like an explanation of how Maz got the Luke Skywalker lightsaber. She told Han Solo it was a story for another time, but I don't know if we will get that story in Episode IX. Maybe she meant it was going to be in a Star Wars novel. :shrug:

That's so far down on the totem pole. I don't think it really matters. At best it could get a throwaway line, but I wouldn't count on it.

 

I think their connection is over. She literally closed the door on him. Trying to redeem him after the choices he made in this movie would be cheap, IMO.

She closed the door on HIM-- but I bet he isn't done with trying to convince her. It's more of that reversal of the OT that I like.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

 

 

I also want Luke to haunt Kylo the entire movie, muahahaha.

Missed this part earlier.

 

One of my other all-time favorites is the film Excalibur. And one of my favorite scenes is the "ghost" (or astral projection?) of Merlin, taking on Morgana.

 

I'd like Luke handled in a similar way...a pleasant dream to Rey, and a NIGHTMARE to Kylo!

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I think their connection is over. She literally closed the door on him. Trying to redeem him after the choices he made in this movie would be cheap, IMO.

 

You said the same after he killed Han. Yet the movie started with Snoke berating him for being so conflicted after doing so. And then he out and out hesitated to pull the trigger a few minutes later. And by saving Rey and killing Snoke, he was about 9/10 the way there. The resolve might be there, but the conflict isn't done.

 

Rey feels betrayed at the moment, but give her some time. I don't believe it will be that easy to sever their bond. They may not talk directly anymore, but it will be there. After all, it only took, what? Less than a day for her to go from shooting him on sight to being distracted by his pecks and championing his redemption?

 

Besides, I really have trouble believing that the whole Skywalker line will disappear from Star Wars. I mean, the Skywalkers ARE Star Wars.

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In true Star Wars fashion, I would like to see Rey turn Ben back to the light side. Then, they go on to defeat the First Order and restore peace and justice to the galaxy. At the very end of the movie, they embrace and kiss. Suddenly, the force ghost of Luke appears.

 

Luke: *clears throat to interrupt the kissing* "Uhhh...we have a lot to talk about. You see, I wasn't quite honest. Rey, you are actually the daugher of Han and Leia."

Ben (looking incredibly shocked): "Then, that would mean we are..."

*Star Wars theme plays and credits roll*

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Guest El Chalupacabra

Well, I have a problem with Rey being portrayed as wanting to redeem Kylo as much as she did in TLJ, anyway, so I am OK if the redemption door is slammed shut and for good.

 

Now that it seems that Rey is NOT a Skywalker, after all, why would she waste her time and effort on trying to redeem Kylo at this point? Doesn't narratively make a whole lot of sense to me when in TFA, Kylo murders Han, almost kills Finn, and then later figuratively stabs Rey in the back and tricks her in TLJ.

 

And you know what? I DON'T want Kylo redeemed, anyway. Like I said earlier, he isn't Darth Vader. He is the INVERSION of LUKE. Which is to say he should remain evil. Most of the Star Wars films are the hero's journey...even Vader, if you count his redemption in ROTJ. I think it is a good change to see the villain's journey with Kylo Ren.

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So thinking on what I want for IX... man...

 

I’ve spent the last few years defending TFA. While fully acknowledging it was ripping off ANH, and that Starkiller Base was kinda a weak idea, I felt in the grand scheme of things, these things served the greater good of re-establishing the Star Wars feel of the OT that the PT never reclaimed.

 

JJ has always been a mixed bag for me. While I hate his “mystery box” (or rather his desire to never solve said mysteries) if there’s one thing he rules at, it’s capturing a feel. After he nailed that 80s Amblin feel with Super 8, I felt like TFA was in good hands. To me, those feels were the most important thing. I was willing to look past the plot danglers because it felt right, and I thought Rian would be able to weave those danglers into a new and interesting story.

 

Instead, Rian/TLJ seemed more interested in either obliterating, ignoring, or simply doing away with those plot danglers. It seems like they were a chore to him, in the way of a story he wanted to tell. He had this Rey/Luke/Kylo story, that I quite liked, but literally everything else was treated as if it were filler or a chore. I’d also argue that TLJ doesn’t have the same feels that TFA did. It’s not a PT style vacuous hole, but it’s not as magical.

 

That’s 100% made TFA less impactful in terms of the larger story. And now, where I wasn’t before, I’m legit worried about JJ coming back for the next one. This is how I felt with his Star Trek films. The first one recaptured the fun and adventure that Trek had lost, and for the next trip out he had a blank slate— so what does he do? Try and remake TWOK. So now with Rian having crushed his mystery box, and no follow up film to shake things out, I worry that IX is going to be any good. I have no doubt it will feel right, but I have no idea which way the story could go.

 

To that-- here's what I need/would like to see:

 

1. Luke as a force ghost-- seems to be a given and heavily implied. Though now that we see these new Jedi powers, astral projection, and Yoda interacting with the physical plain, I worry that it could get out of hand. Obi-Wan said (as a ghost) he could no longer interfere. The idea isn't new though-- in early ROTJ drafts Ben and Yoda materialized whole to help Luke fight Vader. I'd love to see Luke be a Force ghost in the traditional sense-- but instead of him offering advice to Rey, I love the idea of him haunting Kylo.

 

2. Knights of Ren / Snoke-- Not only do I want them to comeback, but I'd really like an explanation. It could be as simple as a couple lines. Now that Kylo is in charge, he calls up his old friends to come and join him. Hux hates these ruffian cut-throats in there midst and asks about them. Kylo says "They followed me when we left the Jedi. We were lost, angry, directionless-- for years I'd been hearing a voice, guiding me on a different path than my uncle. We followed that voice and found Snoke, imprisoned in carbonite for centuries, where the Jedi left him. He showed us the true nature of the Force."

 

So I guess the other Knights have been off chasing their own fortunes, but now that Luke is gone and Kylo is in power, they come back. Sort of like how Vader was the SS to Palpatine's Hitler, to the chagrin of Imperial Officers. Give us some personalities for our villains to face. Which brings me to--

 

3. Rey's TFA vision of the Knights of Ren. It doesn't add up with either Luke or Kylo's version of what happened. In TFA, we see Kylo Ren and the knights kill somebody, and it's raining. It's implied this is when he burned it all down. But in TLJ, in both versions of the story, Kylo was still Ben when he turned and left and set fire to everything... and it wasn't raining. I think it would be awesome if what we saw in TFA was actually Rey seeing her face them in the future.

 

4. General Poe. Seems obvious enough. If the resistance is still relatively small, he could be in charge without being a dude stuck standing on a bridghe for an entire movie... (like he was more or less in TLJ). I like the idea of them being a really small group, like not much bigger than we left them. A dozen people, living on the Falcon, fighting this impossible fight.

 

5. Jedi Rey. Also seems obvious. Everyone is saying she has the Jedi books from the tree-- I didn't catch that in the movie. Is it implied? Either way, it would make the most sense since she needs to somehow complete here training on her own. WHICH, is an idea I like. The stuff Luke said about the Jedi wasn't wrong-- the Jedi of the PT were bold and arrogant and Palpatine came to power under their nose. They were literally sitting high on their castle and were easily toppled. Rey restarting the order on her own terms is always what I thought Luke would do. Part of me even wants her to have other initiates with her, (to fight the Ren) but it's also kind of late to be introducing new characters. So that means...

 

6. Jedi Finn. I'm sure people would HATE this. But what made him defy his programming/indoctrination? What led him to help on Jakku and brought him to Rey. What lets him pick up skills like gunning and piloting with relative ease. The Force is strong with Finn, so I say double down on it and make him Rey's first student... not that Rey is a master by any means-- just that they are figuring it out together.

 

6. Kylo lives. I don't think Kylo should be redeemed ala Vader. No last minute switch-- especially not when he is now functionally the Emperor, there's no one for him to betray but Hux or the Knights of Ren, neither of which have any impact. Instead, I'd love for him to be defeated, but Rey spares his life. The movie ends with him imprisoned, or stranded on some planet. He's been beaten, bested by Rey, and his power has maybe taken a hit. But he lives because Rey refuses to give up on him. Leave him on Dagobah... with ghost Luke to try and make him good again. Again-- at the VERY end.

 

7. Republic confusion / First Order history. Post Starkiller attack, post TLJ resistance-killing, I'm really confused about the socio-political scene of the galaxy. I don't need PT levels of politico-senate scenes. I would just love a simple, straight-forward explanation along the lines of "The First Order formed in a corner of the galaxy where all the last remaining Empire forces stayed strong. Snoke stepped up to lead them, and rebranded them while the Republic slowly restored itself. The First Order grew, the Republic didn't want to get involved, Leia decided that was bull so she went to First Order controlled space to build a resistance. Now, with the Republic capital gone, and the First Order growing stronger, one final push has to be made to show the rest of the galaxy they need to be stopped.

 

8. Phasma. I'm just going to recycle my hope for TLJ. She lives. She leaves the First Order on a mission to hunt and kill Finn as a shiny chrome bounty hunter. And FFS let Gwendolyn Christie show her face.

 

9. The "big three" together. With the resistance so small now, I'd love for them to not do what every SW movie sans ANH does-- split everyone up. I'd love for them to stick together on the same mission.

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