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The I've Seen The Last Jedi Thread (spoilers OBV)


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It's the first unpredictable one since Empire and topped even that one in that area.

True. Snoke dying came out of left field, and Luke could have gone either way throughout. Where Kylo would fall was also in doubt and his eventual path one I didn't consider.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not but either way ... What I meant was:

 

1) I was genuinely shocked at the plan to sneak aboard the Dreadnought and turn off the Tracer utterly failed. It EVERY other movie that plan works. Star Wars never invests that kind of time with all that kind of build up and then the plan fails. That never happens. My jaw was on the floor.

 

2) Same thing with Finn at the end. He was totally set up for the heroic sacrifice to save the Resistance. Even if he doesn't die, he destroys the BIG WEAPON to save the day. That always happens. For it not to was shocking.

 

3) Luke not actually being there to face off with Kylo. What a swerve. It was all set up for them to fight for a while and then Luke allows Kylo to kill him.

 

None of the other movies had this level of unpredictability and it was glorious. What a step up.

 

PS. This is why the casino stuff was NOT pointless. It set up the shocking swerve that the rebels don't always win just because they try. Now in the third movie we can't automatically assume everything is going to work out just because they try hard or are willing to bravely sacrifice. That was well worth the time invested

 

I thought the plan in ROTJ to enter the bunker on Endor and blow up the shield generator failed the first time. They were captured by the Empire, and only saved by the Ewoks. I guessed the plan eventually happened, but it did fail the first time.

 

Also, we might be overlooking some unpredictability in previous movies like ESB because we have all seen them 100s of times and it has been 30-40 years since the OT came out in theaters. Wouldn't you say ESB had a fair amount of unpredictability: 1. Han being sold out by Lando? When Lando opens the door and you see Vader sitting at the table? 2. I am your father. That could easily qualify as the biggest surprise in all the movies. 3. Luke losing a hand in his duel with Vader. 4. I guess as a smaller surprise that a great Jedi master would turn out to be a fish stick stealing little runt. :D

 

I am wanting to go see TLJ again, probably one or two more times in the theater. I did enjoy it very much just not as much as the OT movies. I was surprised that Snoke went out so easily. I was thinking he would be at least in Episode IX. I was thinking that Ben would turn to the good side, and seeing him team up with Rey was awesome. I was surprised that he wound up going right back to an enemy.

 

I also wonder if Luke will return in IX as a Force ghost.

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I despised with every fiber of my being Luke igniting his lightsaber against Ben

 

When I saw that, my first thought (honestly) was "oh she is going to hate this"

 

:wave:

 

That part reminded me a lot of when Mace Windu went to arrest Palpatine. You can tell that Windu desperately wanted to end the threat but was having conflict about whether it was the right thing to do or not. The difference was that Windu chose to try and strike down Palpatine, and (from what I can remember from last night), Luke chose the other way (...and also Anakin wasn't there to stop Luke like how he stopped Windu :D).

 

They should have had Ben say, "No, no, no....you will die!!!" :D

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Guest El Chalupacabra

First off, looks like a lot of stuff I wanted to see, happened outright or more or less happened:

https://nightly.net/topic/78774-what-do-you-want-to-see-in-episode-8/page-6

 

Luke should be cynical, embittered, reluctant to get involved again. While training Rey, starts to see there's hope again. The teacher learns from the student. Sort of like an old King Arthur and Galahad. OK not quite how I thought it would go down, but essentially happened.

 

Luke should be DYING. We should see a Luke with the clock running out on his life, so that there is an urgency to pass the torch to Rey. Welp, Luke did bite the dust. Called it! With Fisher gone, Luke is sure to return as a force ghost. If Yoda can, Luke should be able to.

 

Luke kicking ass with no need of a lightsaber at all. At this point, lightsabers should be almost quaint to Luke. OK, I admit I didn't see astral projection coming, but Luke was a badass, and lightsabers were in fact quaint to him!

 

Kylo Ren kills Snoke after learning all he can. I love how everyone seems to be shocked by this....to me, it was obvious this would happen. Where do you go after killing Han Solo? You can't be redeemed. What better way to go full on bad!
No planet or solar system killing machines YAY!

 

I wish I didn't read the reviews of, "best SW movie ever" because that really got my hopes up. It is the worst movie since Disney took over. In fact, I would put it only above AotC and TPM.

 

That being said, I enjoyed myself. To me, this was a tale of two movies. The parts I enjoyed I LOVED...Rey, Luke, Snoke, Kyle, Leia, Chewie...were all awesome and I enjoyed every scene they were in. Johnson made Snoke out to be super powerful so I would like to know a bit more about him. I will likely read the book. The new force powers are pretty cool. I was sure Kenobi was going to pop his head into the Yoda scene (I loved the scene...but he looked like a cartoon) since Disney announced his movie the other day.

 

However, Finn, Poe, Rose, DJ, are awesome characters and Canto Bight is a cool location, but all are wasted on a meaningless side plot which only purpose is to give those characters something to do. It slowed the movie so much, I am sure I would enjoy the film much more if it was removed. I wish Rey would have received more than one day of training.

 

I say 7/10, but probably would have been 8/10 had it been edited a bit better.

I agree 1000%! I enjoyed the movie. But far far from "OMGTHEBESTSTARWARZMOVIEEVARRRRR!!!!"

 

I personally rank this movie above TMP, AOTC, felt about the same quality as ROTS. DEFINITELY NOT TESB or ANH level for sure!

 

 

The Good:

The good parts were GREAT.

 

I seriously believe that Mark Hamill single-handedly saved this movie from being a COMPLETE AND UTTER TURD. I don't completely like how Luke was written (pulling a saber on Kylo....WTF!!???), but how Hamill portrayed Luke..Wow. He really ought to receive an award for that.

 

This move redeems Rey a bit for me because after multiple viewings of TFA (as stated in another thread, I originally loved her character in the theater for TFA, additional viewings diminished her for me). I was finding her to be one of the least interesting characters of TFA.

 

Loved CHEWIE! Actually liked the porgs (AKA Grumpy cat crossed with a penguin)

 

Loved Kylo, again. Adam Driver is the Ewan MacGegor of the Sequel Trilogy.

 

I was OK with Yoda showing up, and a birt of a different take on force ghosts. Interesting.

 

Astral projection...great idea.

 

Leia using the force was pretty cool

 

The Bad

 

Skywalker Legacy: Probably for the best that Rey isn't a Skywalker, but part of me is let down because does this mean that the Skywalker legacy is that of EVIL, now that Luke is dead and Carrie Fisher will not return? Not sure I like that.

 

Astral projection: still scratching my head as to why it kills you though. Might have been better to CLEARLY state that if your astral self gets hurt by a force user, you get hurt...sort of like Freddy can kill you in your dreams.

 

Resistance or Rebellion? WTF is it????

 

REYLO Team Up is LAME: Am I the only one who was NOT a fan of the Kylo/Rey team up to kill the Royal Guards? Felt like utter FAN WANK. Are they bitter opponents? Frienemies? ISince Rey ISN'T a Skywalker now, just WTF is her motivation to try to redeem Kylo so much, anyway? I know the temp team up is supposed to be this dramatic tease of "Will Rey go bad/will Kylo go good," but to me it had about as much impact of an old Filmation cartoon with He-Man and Skeletor teaming up to defeat a common enemy, then going back to being enemies. We should have got a Re VS Kylo, Rey lose, and THEN Astral Luke saves her ass from certain death.

 

Finn is USELESS.

Poe is USELESS.

 

Phasma is takes the title from Boba Fett as the worst alleged badass who ends up having their ass handed to them. She is 0 and 2.

 

No Lando? Yet again, we get effed over. No Billie Dee is such a glaring omission. If you can have the big 3 and Yoda, WTF no Lando?

 

No Obi Wan, but we get Yoda? WTF?

 

DId NOT like "DJ."

 

Creepy Kid at the end: moving a broom or whatever it was? So I guess Rey will start a new order. Wasn't necessary, and I am sure internet nerds world wide will debate that one for the next 2 years. Seems a poor substitute for Rey not being a Skywalker.

 

No plot reworking after Carrie Fisher's demise: This movie appears to be pretty much as conceived. I just don't get it. They had a YEAR to rework the plot, and it STILL ends as if we are going to see Leia as the BIG SAVIOR and STAR of Episode 9. Big, big mistake, IMHO.

 

It's all Luke's fault?: So, with him pulling a saber, are we to believe that this is ALL LUKE'S Fault? Not just the loss of Kylo to the Dark Side. Not just the destruction of the NEW Jedi ORDER. THe ENTIRE WAR!!! I DO NOT LIKE THIS AT ALL!

 

Man did they bet on the wrong horse when they killed Laura Dern. They could have set it up as her filling the intended role for Leia. Leia should have been killed off in this movie. Also, Kylo chickening out at the last second and NOT pulling the trigger, and having some random TIEs do his job for him? LAME! Come on. Kylo should have gone completely evil, starting with killing Leia (or at least failing the first time, then later doing it).

 

I am afraid Disney is now boxed in and will not be able to adequately explain what happened to Leia in Ep 9 with the edict of no CHI, no use of cut scenes from The Last Jedi, and Carrie FIsher passed away and not able to return. The ONLY way they can do this now is a Time Jump and just state in the Crawl she was killed and Poe has assumed leadership of the remnants of the resistance/rebelllion.

 

Finally, I am VERY CONCERNED for the next Rian Johnson Trilogy. He was handed a trilogy BASED ON THIS FILM? Granted, this is NOT a bad movie by any means. Just felt LET DOWN. And with JJ ABrams slated to do Episode 9, I am LET DOWN EVEN MORE. This will not END THE WAY I WANT!

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I am afraid Disney is now boxed in and will not be able to adequately explain what happened to Leia in Ep 9 with the edict of no CHI, no use of cut scenes from The Last Jedi, and Carrie FIsher passed away and not able to return. The ONLY way they can do this now is a Time Jump and just state in the Crawl she was killed and Poe has assumed leadership of the remnants of the resistance/rebelllion.

Agreed - can see it maybe starting with her funeral as I think they would offer the respect to the character of Leia to give her a proper exit - well as much as they could. Did like Holdo being the hero at the end - the scene of the ship jumping to hyperspace was amazing - total silence in the cinema - epic. But on review would have been a superb exit for Leia with what has happened like you guys have said.

 

I was ok at the time with the Luke issue of raising his lightsaber as I knew Kylo would not be telling the full truth (even if he believed it to be that way), and was happy enough with the real version of events that Luke described, putting it down to a vision of seeing a glimpse of Ben's future and with that knowledge had a brief moment of doubt on what to do. But could do with a second watch as I totally understand your comments above Mara!

 

Something I read but didn't notice at the time of watching (over excited I reckon!), was that Luke's footsteps did not impact the salt plains to make them red like any thing else that touched it. My feeling that something wasn't right was simply because he was using that lightsaber model - just didn't sit right. Great to see him in that sequence looking more younger and less hermit like. So sad they felt they needed to bump him off. I can see why, but still a childhood hero of mine. Sad times.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

See I AM completely OK with Luke dying. He had to die to pass the torch to Rey as the new savior of the galaxy. I think he WILL be back in Ep 9 as a ghost (he SHOULD be anyway: they better NOT LANDO us on that!), especially now that Carrie Fisher is gone.

 

BUT, the way he died seemed unnecessary and anti-climatic. And not as meaningful as it could have been.

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It didn't feel anti-climatic for me, and I think I like the idea / risk of becoming one with the Force if you do something that would normally only be done by someone who is already one with the Force. So rather than waiting for it to die, Luke brought forward the death of his body by choosing to do something (awesome) that would kill it.

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Luke's "death" was always going to be anti-climactic. How could any death be meaningful enough for this character? Better that he went out more like Obi-wan Kenobi, distracting the bad guys and giving the next generation a chance to escape and regroup.

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Hi, everyone. I'm sure everyone knows how I feel about these films, but I just wanted to offer a gesture of good will in saying that I am truly sorry many of you either did not like this film or had major problems with it. My friends have been hitting me up all day saying how bad it was, and as I said in the other thread, I am not rooting for these films to fail. Here's hoping you'll enjoy the next film better.

Peace.

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Lots of people have thoroughly enjoyed it, too. I imagine some hardcore fans will not love it, and some may actually hate it, but isn't that typical for Star Wars? Lots of "fans" haven't liked anything SW since 1977 or 1980. Like the prequels, many people had expectations of how the story needed to unfold, and aren't going to be happy with the choices made.

 

And it's "gesture" not jester. Appreciate the thought though!

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I agree about Luke pulling the lightsaber on Ben.

 

I want to preface this by saying I am glad Disney is making this trilogy. TFA was really, really good. TLJ, although it had some of the weakest spots of any SW movie, was overall pretty good. I thought R1 was a lot of fun and added some much needed depth and lore to the SW universe. It is fun to revisit old friends and meet new ones.

 

HOWEVER...this Luke scene confirmed to me that THIS trilogy should not have been made.

 

As bad/mediocre as the prequels are, E1-E6 is one story. As good as TFA and TLJ are, E7-E9 is a sequel. In RotJ, the Rebellion won. The Sith and Empire were destroyed. The story is over with the future tales of our adventurers left to the imaginations of the audience. Most importantly, Luke rejected the dark side even if it meant the Rebellion would lose and he would die. He put all of his faith in Darth Vader would overcome his conflict. It makes absolutely zero sense he would not do this with Ben, a young boy.

 

tht edit: spelling

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Guest El Chalupacabra

It didn't feel anti-climatic for me, and I think I like the idea / risk of becoming one with the Force if you do something that would normally only be done by someone who is already one with the Force. So rather than waiting for it to die, Luke brought forward the death of his body by choosing to do something (awesome) that would kill it.

 

Luke's "death" was always going to be anti-climactic. How could any death be meaningful enough for this character? Better that he went out more like Obi-wan Kenobi, distracting the bad guys and giving the next generation a chance to escape and regroup.

Well, it is anticlimatic for me because, again, I think it should have specifically established that a force user can harm an astral projection. It is heavily implied that Luke becomes one with the force due to the strain of astral projection, sure. But from my point of view, he just sort of drops dead for not good enough of a reason (heroics notwithstanding). It works, and it is what we got, so I accept it, and yeah, I am not a writer so I don't have an answer how to have done it better. But answering as an audience member, it doesn't sit right with me.

 

 

Hi, everyone. I'm sure everyone knows how I feel about these films, but I just wanted to offer a gesture of good will in saying that I am truly sorry many of you either did not like this film or had major problems with it. My friends have been hitting me up all day saying how bad it was, and as I said in the other thread, I am not rooting for these films to fail. Here's hoping you'll enjoy the next film better.

 

Peace.

Well, I may sound overly critical, but by no means am I saying it is a terrible movie. It is definitely worth seeing, IMHO, and I did like it. All I am saying is it did not match the hype it received, or my own expectations. Perhaps I had too high a standard for myself.

 

After further contemplation, I would say it is probably equal to TFA, overall. It gets higher marks for being more original (though I saw a lot of ROTJ parallels, some TESB callbacks), but lower marks for some aspects of how luke was written, the "let's find this code breaker and get betrayed" subplot, and the slow motion hyperspace chase, which all I thought of was this...

 

 

 

 

 

 

HOWEVER...this Luke scene confirmed to me that THIS trilogy should not have been made.

 

Eh, I agree we didn't "need" the sequel trilogy, but I wouldn't go as far to say it shouldn't have been made. So far, I think they are good enough, I enjoy them, and am glad they are being made. I just hope Episode 9 has the pay off I am hoping for and doesn't let us down. I like the PT as well, but from a technical and storyboard standpoint , I have to say the ST are more polished than the PT, but there is just something about TFA and TLJ that has been lost in the modern interpretation of Star Wars (can't put my finger on it, or articulate it, but I sense it). I definitely can say they do NOT have the magic of the OT for me.

 

One other thing I will say is at this point, I sort of wish the ST was set further into the future of Star Wars, and did not have the big 3 in them (unless it had Luke as a long-dead ghost), and were just their own story. I did not feel satisfied with Han Solo in the last one (Ford pretty much just phoned it in), and I do not feel fully satisfied with how Luke was written (though Mark Hamill was AWESOME in it...he totally polished the turd he was handed).

 

I also can say I now understood what MH meant when he was upset wit how Luke was written. I wish Rian Johnson had listened more to MH's ideas. I think MH was probably the best person to get input on the Luke character, and I think if it was done more how Hamill wanted, I might have been a lot happier.

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Most importantly, Luke rejected the dark side even if it meant the Rebellion would lose and he would die. He put all of his faith in Darth Vader would overcome his conflict. It makes absolutely zero since he would not do this with Ben, a young boy.

 

I was totally fine with it.

 

Luke rejected the Dark Side in the end with the Emperor. But before that he took a swing at the Emperor and fought Vader in a rage over his threatening to turn Leia. It wasn't until he had Vader sprawled out in front of him, helpless and missing the same hand that Vader had cut from Luke, that he reset the emotions that put him in danger. From there he put his faith in Vader. But not before touching the Dark Side himself.

 

Luke is not perfect. He had a moment of weakness and it's totally in character for him to make a rash decision. Yoda pointed out that Luke still has the same flaws that he complained about to Obi-Wan at their first meeting. The important thing is that he held back and had no intention of hurting Ben. He was suitably ashamed of his action and blamed himself.

 

It's okay for the heroes to fail to I believe. That was the bit of wisdom Luke really needed from his old master. And I personally thought it would have been wise to include a failure on Obi-Wan's part as a key component of Anakin's fall.

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Most importantly, Luke rejected the dark side even if it meant the Rebellion would lose and he would die. He put all of his faith in Darth Vader would overcome his conflict. It makes absolutely zero since he would not do this with Ben, a young boy.

 

I was totally fine with it.

 

Luke rejected the Dark Side in the end with the Emperor. But before that he took a swing at the Emperor and fought Vader in a rage over his threatening to turn Leia. It wasn't until he had Vader sprawled out in front of him, helpless and missing the same hand that Vader had cut from Luke, that he reset the emotions that put him in danger. From there he put his faith in Vader. But not before touching the Dark Side himself.

 

Luke is not perfect. He had a moment of weakness and it's totally in character for him to make a rash decision. Yoda pointed out that Luke still has the same flaws that he complained about to Obi-Wan at their first meeting. The important thing is that he held back and had no intention of hurting Ben. He was suitably ashamed of his action and blamed himself.

 

It's okay for the heroes to fail to I believe. That was the bit of wisdom Luke really needed from his old master. And I personally thought it would have been wise to include a failure on Obi-Wan's part as a key component of Anakin's fall.

 

I can see what you are saying regarding Luke not being perfect. Nobody is perfect. However, that is a far cry from trying to kill a young boy. It just occurred to me that is a similar line of thinking that Anakin had when he killed the younglings. He was scared of what they would become. I don't know if that was an intentional parallel or not. If you think that is in line with Luke's character from RotJ, then we just have to disagree.

 

Regardless, my main point is that the E1-E6 story is done. I would have liked to seen a new trilogy...like the one that was announced and use the Star Wars stories to slowly connect the two trilogies.

 

Just to be clear...I am not complaining about the movies being made. I just think they are erasing the RotJ ending. I think had the Empire won the Battle of Endor sending Luke and the Rebellion into deep hiding, this trilogy would have made more sense.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

 

 

I have to say I agree with you on that. EVERYTHING was undone between TFA and TLJ.

 

 

As for pulling the saber....Now it may have been the "fleeting shadow" Luke described, and yeah, no one is perfect. But pulling a saber with intent to murder, no matter how brief, is NOT Luke's character, at all. It LITERALLY caused the destruction of the Jedi Order AND the war, and Luke really is at fault for the entire war and the fall of the order. If there were going to be a turning point for Kylo, and Luke was going to oppose him, it should have been on equal footing, more like Obi Wan VS Vader in ROTS. Or maybe Kylo already was leading a civil war between the Jedi Order, and Luke tried but failed to stop him. What we got was Luke sneaking up on Kylo while he was sleeping, was about to murder him, and changed his mind too late. GOOD GUYS DON'T DO THAT!

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Nobody is perfect. However, that is a far cry from trying to kill a young boy. It just occurred to me that is a similar line of thinking that Anakin had when he killed the younglings. He was scared of what they would become.

 

That's kinda what I mean. Luke was faced with the old question of whether you'd kill Hitler as a child if you could go back in time. Luke had lived through this once before and had his own fears to work through. His own mentor, Obi-Wan, failed Anakin. Could Luke succeed where Obi-Wan failed? Would he sit around one day lamenting that he thought he could instruct a Jedi as well as Yoda and find himself proven deadly wrong? Luke has his own set of experiences and traumas. He'd seen more of the Empire than has ever been shown in the movies. Luke is always looking to the future instead of the present. Instead of seeing what he could do for Ben then and there, he recoiled at what could be.

 

 

 

What we got was Luke sneaking up on Kylo while he was sleeping, was about to murder him, and changed his mind too late. GOOD GUYS DON'T DO THAT!

 

If I recall, Luke didn't go there to kill Ben. He touched him in with the Force, and what he saw scared him so much that his instincts were to kill it. He instantly regained control, but Ben saw him in that horrible moment and that was the turning point.

 

Fear is the path to the Dark Side? Well there you go.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

What you say makes sense Poe. On a certain level, I agree. I don't have issue with Luke having that internal struggle. When it was externalized by igniting the saber, that is where it lost me. Semantics here, but for me, that is a BIG step for Luke to take. They could have accomplished the same thing by Luke reading Kylo's mind, waking Kylo, he probing Luke's mind in turn and discovering that internal struggle, without Luke pulling his saber out. That is the same as putting a gun to someone's head while they are sleeping, to me.

 

I don't know, maybe not a big deal to you. But that is a very big deal to me.

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I'm not saying it's not a big deal. Obviously it is, and it's safe to say that moment was the greatest failure of Luke's life. We're meant to be repulsed by his action and had the appropriate emotional reaction to Luke considering the murder of a scared kid. I'm saying that I didn't have a problem with it from a story or character perspective.

 

I'm judging it on the merits as follows:

 

1. Is it in bounds of the character as previously portrayed?

2. Does the motivation and plotting make sense as to how we got there?

3. Does it improve the narrative and isn't just there for shock value?

 

All three receive a check from me.

 

One thing I've learned over the past few years from helping a few other authors in their editing and talking to them post-release as criticism comes back is that people don't like it when characters they've come to like do bad things. It's like watching someone you love walk off a cliff. Usually, the complaint is that the character would never do such a thing, but that is often not the case. If the author is any good, they had long ago supplied the flaws that would eventually lead to the mistake. In this case, I believe they spent a good part of the film justifying Luke's reaction based on well-established character traits.

 

It's just its difficult for fans to accept that the heroes are human. Luke himself touched on this in regards to his dismissal of himself as a legend. He's just a man, and a flawed one at that, even if he's also great. One that carries the Skywalker traits every bit as much as Anakin and Ben, only he overcame it.

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Wow. Saw this a few hours ago. I'm still processing it but, I'm impressed. I wasn't too happy with TFA, or with the idea of a ST as a whole (I actually just saw this movie today on a whim. Wasn't even planning on it), and until now, I just haven't been able to get emotionally invested in a post-ROTJ SW story, but I actually left the theatre caring about what's going to happen with these characters and how its all going to play out.

Likes

  • I like how these movies aren't afraid to acknowledge the PT. They're not just trying to sweep it under the rug like it never happened. Having Luke address his father's redemption and how it, for a while at least, "brought balance" to the force was a nice and unexpected touch that helped me to put these movies in proper context with the overall story. An effort is being made to respect and preserve what's come before. This went a long way toward redeeming the ST in my eyes.
  • There was a remarkable display of force abilities that we haven't seen before, like Leia's space walk, and Luke projecting an image of himself on another planet. Vader said in a ANH that "the ability to destroy a planet is insignificant compared to the power of the force." I personally never thought that any force display shown in the movies lived up this statement...until now.
  • I'm not one of those who hate the prequels, but I have to admit that these movies have done a much better job of character development. I can relate to and empathize with these characters in a way that I couldn't with the PT characters. In the scene when Rey's past is revealed, I actually thought she was going to accept Kylo's offer and turn. If she had, I would have gotten why she did it, as opposed to someone turning because of a bad dream! I get that too, but only in a more abstract way. These characters come across as more "real" to me. I see a lot of missed opportunities that the prequels could have done concerning Anakin's turn.
  • Yoda

Dislikes

  • Everything in the ST still feels too familiar, with things from previous movies just being rehashed. It seems very "retro." Palpatine is called Snoke now. The Empire is called the First Order. The rebellion is called the resistance. All they did was change a bunch names, but beyond the name changes, much of the setup is exactly what it was in OT. We have a character who is conflicted inside, and another character thinking she can save him. We practically had another thrown room scene, and did anyone else think of Padme and Anakin on Mustafar when Kylo suggested to Rey that they screw everything and rule the galaxy together? I feel like we've seen all this before. I get that SW is supposed to have recurrent themes, but couldn't these movies be less blatant about it?
  • I still want to know what the Knights of Ryn are! They weren't even mentioned in this film (I don't think).

 

 

When Rey asked Luke what the force is, I think it would have been funny if he had said "midichlorians."

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I still want to know what the Knights of Ryn are! They weren't even mentioned in this film (I don't think).

 

Luke mentioned that Ben killed several students and took others with him. I assumed the ones that left with him were the Knights of Ren. Only makes sense given that Ben's turn happened on a moment's notice.

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I'm sure other thoughts will come to me, but overall, I'm pleased for now.

Outside of how you feel about Kylo Ren, I actually agree with you on most all fronts. This makes me uncomfortable.

 

I Despised with every fiber of my being Luke igniting his lightsaber against Ben.

THIS is exactly why I have always disliked the EU, and why it doesn't work for me. Star Wars is a cinematic narrative. To slow it down and expand upon it in prose takes away the basic building blocks of mythic storytelling, and adds nuances that aren't meant to be there.

 

As I said to Zerimar in the rating thread, of COURSE he's going to hate Luke for not being the happy, infallible, love and hope wizard of the EU. I didn't want him to have gone dark, or "gray" or anything like that-- but I also didn;t want him to be somebody free of any real conflict or tragedy in his life. Cause that's boring and not the stuff heroes are made of.

 

That sort of thing just doesn't work post ROTJ-- unless you have him more like Yoda-- where he's just somebody out of the picture that Rey checks in with. But you can't have Luke as a na active character with him being better than he is the last time we saw him, otherwise there's no arc.

 

The EU has built these version of the characters that are set in stone for so many, and in my head, from the first Zahn book, they've always felt wrong. I'm back-programming a bit of course, and a good writer could make anything work if they really got into it, but the TLJ Luke to me is infinitely more interesting to me than where he was in the EU.

 

..that said, I respect your anger. :)

 

 

 

It's the first unpredictable one since Empire and topped even that one in that area.

True. Snoke dying came out of left field, and Luke could have gone either way throughout. Where Kylo would fall was also in doubt and his eventual path one I didn't consider.

 

I was genuinely shocked at the plan to sneak aboard the Dreadnought and turn off the Tracer utterly failed. It EVERY other movie that plan works. Star Wars never invests that kind of time with all that kind of build up and then the plan fails. That never happens. My jaw was on the floor.

 

In spirit I agree with you, but that entire storyline was so drawn out and pointless the failure didn't really have any impact.

 

 

Dislikes

  • Everything in the ST still feels too familiar, with things from previous movies just being rehashed. It seems very "retro." Palpatine is called Snoke now. The Empire is called the First Order. The rebellion is called the resistance. All they did was change a bunch names, but beyond the name changes, much of the setup is exactly what it was in OT. We have a character who is conflicted inside, and another character thinking she can save him. We practically had another thrown room scene, and did anyone else think of Padme and Anakin on Mustafar when Kylo suggested to Rey that they screw everything and rule the galaxy together? I feel like we've seen all this before. I get that SW is supposed to have recurrent themes, but couldn't these movies be less blatant about it?
  • I still want to know what the Knights of Ryn are! They weren't even mentioned in this film (I don't think).

I agree with all these points. Filmicly, I get why JJ decided to have the First Order carry a visual continuity with the Empire, but especially now I think it made things more unclear than it needed too. All original designs for the First Order would have been cool.

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