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The I've Seen The Last Jedi Thread (spoilers OBV)


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I totally get that Luke didnt literally leave a map to himself, but he kinda did though you know. I also totally get that it was either that puzzle piece in R2 or a vision for Rey... perhaps a vision for Rey would have been better in hindsight. Because R2 having the missing box of the map sorta makes it look like Luke was maybe someone like Tami and so he could not successfully drag and drop a file to the recycle bin.

 

Luke hiding on the Island has the other issues still however, if his goal was to let the Jedi die then it is beyond weird he left the books alone for a decade.

 

Also if Luke wasnt told by the force to hide and wait for a new hope to grow up like say Obi and Yoda did, and being that Luke is a toddler with his fingers in his ears here, then why did he hide for a decade?

 

From Ben? Why? Luke wanted the Jedi to die so...

 

Fear of turning? Luke wanted the Jedi to die so...

 

His motivations are all askew.

 

Afterthought: BTW that missing box of a map was always a chuckle for me, People were all like yeah Luke is missing, he was looking for something and well there is this missing piece of the map here... nah... he probably didnt go anywhere near there. Oh well.

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Luke is lying to himself, isn't that obvious? Even after Rey leaves and he goes to burn the tree, which he thinks still contains the books, he can't do it. He's going around saying "The Jedi must die..." to justify to himself what he is doing.

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So for ten years hes sipping blue milk and eating fish going, today the Jedi will die. Okay, maybe tomorrow. Meanwhile he knows his nephew and presumably his other student in Snoke is wreaking havoc on the galaxy. His sister is out there alone, but hes all like dem damn books.

 

Without Luke being defeated and the Force having him hide to ensure he can train another student, his self exile is just a whole bunch of wait what.

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Fair. Honestly. Speaking of that emotion.

 

At that same time however isnt this Luke Skywalker we are talking about? But then I guess it was a hard lesson for Luke, having never dealt with death or darkness before.

 

It must have been someone else whos aunt and uncle was turned into bacon, whos entire life was flipped upside down, whos dad murdered billions, whos teachers told him lies to turn him into a weapon, who somehow digested all of that then faced down the fear and rage within himself to find a way to still embody A New Hope.

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Fair. Honestly. Speaking of that emotion.

 

At that same time however isnt this Luke Skywalker were talking about? But then I guess it was a hard lesson for Luke, having never dealt with death or darkness before.

 

It must have been someone else whos aunt and uncle was turned into bacon, whos entire life was flipped upside down, whos dad murdered billions, whos teachers told him lies to turn him into a weapon, who somehow digested all of that then faced down the fear and rage within himself to find a way to still embody A New Hope.

 

The difference is he was at least partially responsible for what happened to his nephew and maybe in his own mind wholly responsible. Let's face facts though, in Star Wars emotions alot of times are just run past. In ANH Luke's Aunt and Uncle are killed, they are essentially his parents, he literally looks at the ground for 2 seconds and then is like "yeah, lets go to Alderaan". Same thing later, Ben is killed and he screams no. There is one quick shot of Leia consoling him and then he is off basically having fun shooting down Tie Fighters.

 

His reaction to what happens with his nephew is probably a far more honest and real emotion as compared to what happens in the earlier movies. I don't think it's fair to compare back to his reactions in the earlier movies because the earlier movies simply gloss over them rather than actually deal with them.

 

In story I think you can simply say that for one he feels responsible for his nephew, as opposed to the earlier terrible things that happened. Also that optimism of youth can go away as we get older.

 

But really I think the 2nd point I make is the real thing here, the earlier movies in alot of spots basically gloss over these terrible things. This movie is focusing on it.

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"Everything you just said is wrong." --Luke Skywalker

"I can't kill my own father." —Luke Skywalker

 

...my nephew however, I'll wait until he falls asleep and then...

 

But Luke didn't go there to kill him, at least not by what he tells Rey. He says he felt darkness in Ben, went into his room to look into him and see how bad it was. What he saw was far worse than he ever imagined and for the slightest instance he ignited his saber. He paid for that moment of weakness for the rest of his life, and so did the entire galaxy.

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Ofcourse, nor I am going to change your mind. But if we aren't going to discuss those things we disagree about may as well stop posting here.

 

One thing I will say is, the reason I didn't like this movie had nothing to do with how the new characters were handled. But at the same time, it's unfair to say to those people who had expectations with what TFA set up to just say to them, you just didnt like that it was not what you built up in your minds. I remember reading stuff like this in sites like Nerdist and Screenrant after TFA was released:

 

"In an interview with the Los Angeles Times about the women of Star Wars, Lucasfilm president Kathleen Kennedy confirms that Phasma will not follow the Boba Fett/Darth Maul route, and be that cool character who then gets killed off unceremoniouslylike a red shirt on Star Trek. Kennedy confirmed she has big plans for Phasma and promised shell be back. Shes an important character, a baddie in the best sense of the word."

 

If the very person in charge of these films is talking like this, can you blame people for having certain expectations?

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So Luke feels responsible for Ben, hes all emotionally torn up about it, we see it in all those scenes in the film, just so much of him each night so just torn up, his turmoil is so focused on and like so deep, you know with him spending ten years fondling aliens and sipping blue milk rather than do something about it? Oh yeah, and he does not even do the very thing he decided he had to do about it? All that depth and focus?

 

Its starting to feel like Prequels level justification up in here now.

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Side Thought:

 

Are the blue milk aliens sentient? They seem to be all like, Oh, hi there! Would you be interested in joining the Jedi? I tried to start an academy, but I didn't print enough pamphlets so hardly anyone turned up. Except for this guy, who I hate.

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So Luke feels responsible for Ben, hes all emotionally torn up about it, we see it in all those scenes in the film, just so much of him each night so just torn up, his turmoil is so focused on and like so deep, you know with him spending ten years fondling aliens and sipping blue milk rather than do something about it? Oh yeah, and he does not even do the very thing he decided he had to do about it? All that depth and focus?

 

Its starting to feel like Prequels level justification up in here now.

LOL, you are funny. He's given up. He's the last of the Jedi as far as he knows. He is doing what he said he has to do about it. If he just goes there and doesn't teach anyone then the Jedi will end.

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Afterthought: BTW that missing box of a map was always a chuckle for me, People were all like yeah Luke is missing, he was looking for something and well there is this missing piece of the map here... nah... he probably didnt go anywhere near there. Oh well.

Furthermore:

Unless people were cartographing Luke's future hidden location before he even went there, Artoo shouldn't have had that map peice inside him, because he had already checked out and started his epic snooze. Since it's established that Luke didn't create the map himself, split it in half, and stuff part of it inside Artoo (along with the world's longest alarm clock) we can assume someone else did. Artoo was already napping at that point, and hasn't awoken since according to 3PO. So...there's no reason for him to have that map piece in the first place.

 

Edit: the word "threepi o" censored?

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I believe JJ said in an interview that he had a whole thing planned where R2 downloaded the map to the first Jedi Temple when he was plugged into the Imperial network in Star Wars but Kasdan basically told him to stop worrying about explaining every little detail.

 

Not saying that's the best explanation and obviously it's not in the movie so it doesn't matter. It was part of a larger thing where JJ said he kept trying to explain every single thing in the movie and Kasdan kept telling him to not worry about it and push on with the movie.

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I actually think the whole thing about the map in the first movie was handled wrong. I think it would have worked better if they said the map was to the Temple rather than Luke and that they hoped Luke was there but wasn't sure. Would have added maybe just 1% of doubt that they'd pull the rug out from under us and Luke wouldn't be there at all.

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