The Choc Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 She's a minor character because Rian made her one. He could have made her more. This is one critique of the movie I can second. Plasma got ****ed.She's a minor character because JJ made her one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metropolis Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 Then RJ also apes the Prequels at one point, which is okay they are Star Wars and people like what they like but everyone knows how that style was received.When did he do that? The only prequel reference I remember was the Darth Sidious mention. I'm pretty sure Maz's line about them not wanting to hear details of the union dispute was a little dig at the PT. Might have picked that up clearer if she wasn't involved in a shoot out during that transmission lol. And I thought the laser sword thing was a reference to what they were called back in the 70's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 She's a minor character because Rian made her one. He could have made her more. This is one critique of the movie I can second. Plasma got ****ed.She's a minor character because JJ made her one. Mace Windu has a smaller part in TPM than Phasma does in TFA. That had no bearing on his much larger role in AOTC. Rian could have don anything with her like have her track Finn to Canto Bight to put a better face on the danger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Choc Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 I'm afraid of sounding like "this movie (or the story) didn't go the way _I_ wanted, so I don't like it". To be clear, I don't hate it, it's just a huge step down from TFA for me. I was rooting for it all the way along, but it just felt like RJ was trying so hard to take a sharp left on everything the fans wanted/expected to see after TFA that he forgot everything else. And I didn't want him to give the fans what they wanted necessarily, but if you're not going to deliver that, deliver something better.He seems to have a deep love for the OT characters, I think he was good with Leia, Luke, Chewie, R2, Yoda and 3P0, but I felt no love for the new characters other than Kylo and maybe Rey, but I'm not sure how I feel about her story yet. He turns Hux into comic relief, see my rant about Phasma on the last page, Poe acts like a child, Snoke is a red herring (perhaps that was the plan all along, but it still came across as underwhelming - like he's more into the "gotcha" than the scene), he ditches Maz (I'm fine with that one), and Finn, I don't know.. he needed work after TFA, but he didn't really get much character development, despite A LOT of screen time. Basically, he took all the setups in another direction and it was the same direction: "Gotcha! That didn't really matter!" I'll go piece by piece I think Rey's story is great. She is looking for belonging, thats her major story here. In TFA she is dying for her family to come back. Then she meets Han and maybe he will be her surrogate dad? Nope, he's killed. Ok, how about Luke? He's not interested. So she goes back to her parents in that mirror thing, can't get any info. She even turns to Kylo Ren for a potential place to belong, don't go as she planned. She finds it at the end, when she is in the Falcon helping the Resistance she says "I like this!!" This is where she belongs, with the Resistance. As for Poe, I really disagree with you on this. To say Rian left him behind or whatever when his role is vastly larger in TLJ than TFA makes no sense. His role is one of my favorites in the movie. When the movie starts he is having fun, talking trash to Hux, blowin crap up with his ball BB8, laughing when he sees Finn in that water suit thing. During the movie he has to learn this isn't fun, its war. Its shown when he calls off the attack on that cannon. Then Leia knows he is ready and she tells everyone to follow him in the cave. I think his story is great and if anything Rian took the character to a level of importance he didn't even approach in TFA. Finn's story Im on the fence about. I do like the idea of him going from at the start still no caring abut the cause to being totally committed to it at the end to the point of being willing to die for it. I think it makes sense, just not sure about his path from getting from A to B works perfect. But I don't think Rian didn't give the charcter anything to do or didn't show him "love". As for Snoke, I can understand why people wanted/thought we'd get more from him. I just never thought we would or really wanted it. I always took him as a generic villain whose only importance was in how Kylo would eventually overthrow him. The other 2 are bit players. Phasma has a very limited role in TFA. She doesn't even have anything resembling an action scene. To me JJ is the one who messed up by not having Finn fight her at Maz's castle rather than him fighting some random storm trooper. That never made sense to. I'd call Finns fight with her pretty much on par with his fight with the "traitor!!" guy from TFA. Hux, I kinda agree. I don't love him being comic relief as much as he was. At least not to that extent in the very first sequence of the movie. I don't mind him winding up with egg on his face a bit but that was a bit much. But again, I don't think anyone should have expected some kind of huge role or story arc for the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Choc Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 She's a minor character because Rian made her one. He could have made her more. This is one critique of the movie I can second. Plasma got ****ed.She's a minor character because JJ made her one. Mace Windu has a smaller part in TPM than Phasma does in TFA. That had no bearing on his much larger role in AOTC. Rian could have don anything with her like have her track Finn to Canto Bight to put a better face on the danger. Ofcourse he could have. He could have not had her in the movie at all too. I just don't see it as some glaring hole that she wasn't. I don't think anything Phasma does in TFA suggests JJ was setting her up for some monster role and Rian ignored it. It's not like there is some scene of her at the end of TFA being like "I'll get you FV2187 no matter what!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 Im just saying how JJ set her up has no bearing on her future appearances either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Choc Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 I'm not saying Phasma couldn't have had a bigger role and that it wouldn't have been good. Im talking about it in the context of the complaint that Rian ignored things JJ "set up". I don't see how he set up Phasma as anything other than a minor character. Like I said, JJ himself didn't even use Phasma in TFA in a scene where using her would have been painfully easy and obvious when Finn gets into the fight with a stormtropper at Maz's castle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Robin Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 Aping the Prequels = Everything Casino World That entire thing could have been Anakin and Obi, or Parmesan. Edit: Padme was auto-corrected to Parmesan. That should be a thing now, LOL. Love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DANA-kin Skywalker Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 Parmesan describes it perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filthy Jawa Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 I don't want to repeat myself, but I will: JJ didn't set up Phasma as a major character, I'm not arguing that. But he set her up as a character. She's not the Bossk-on-roids guy from Maz's cantina, she has an identity and a role in TFA. If RJ had totally left her out of TLJ, I'd be more okay with it in a way. It would be weird though and he didn't, BECAUSE JJ SET HER UP AS A CHARACTER. He had to deal with her. So he brought her in 4/5ths of the way through and killed her off. It was disrespectful to the story that had been started. I'm not saying she's essential to the plot of the trilogy, but she was established in the opening act (TFA) and then tossed aside like garbage by the writer of act two. I don't care about Phasma, but I care as a member of the audience who saw another element of TFA tossed aside for jokes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Choc Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 I just completely disagree, I mean her role in TFA is so limited. Like I said JJ doesn't even use her in TFA when it's an obvious chance to use her for Finn's fight against a trooper at Maz's. Not every character who appears in one part of the story has to have any kind of significant role in the next part. Finn is captured in TLJ. Then Johnson uses Phasma because she at least has some recognition, rather than use a new generic trooper. Which is what JJ actually did when presented with the chance to use Phasma in an action sequence. I mean in TFA Phasma is basically presented as the leader of the storm troopers, then when the storm troopers attack Maz's castle AND Finn has a 1 on 1 fight with a trooper JJ chose to not even use Phasma in the sequence. Was he somehow being disrespectful to the 1st act of his own movie by not using her? Ofcourse not. What you are saying is almost like "geez, they did nothing with Wedge in ESB. He is set up as surviving Yavin and then he is used just for one action sequence in the next movie!!" That;s exactly what Phasma is, she is a minor character from the 1st movie who was dusted off for one sequence in the 2nd movie. No difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good God a Bear Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 Things to add... 1. Choc has a major hard on for this movie...not that there's anything wrong with that. 2. I think the Phasma delimma could be traced back to Disney and marketing, not necessarily either director. Disney was the one that ran with the 'Ooh look a shiny, female Stormtrooper! Diversity!' They promoted the shit out of her when she was nothing more than a minor character. Not the fault of the directors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Wicket Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 Just got back from a second viewing, and I must say that I liked it better the second time around. I still didn't like a few things, such as Yoda seeming too cartoonish and Snoke being defeated too easily, but those things bothered me less the second time. I guess the problem I had with Snoke going out was not just it was difficult for me to believe that he was duped that easily, but he seemed like an interesting character. We got just glimpses of him in TFA, and before you know it, in TLJ, he's gone when we were just getting to know him. But, it's ok. One major point that I like now is Rey's backstory. I'm cool with Rey's parents being scum and villainy that sold her for money to go to the Mos Eisley Cantina. I watched TFA last night, and it seems like in that movie as well as TLJ that Rey and Finn are almost like family (brother and sister). Finn seems like a protective older brother for Rey, and now one of my favorite moments in TFA is when Rey is at Starkiller Base and the look on her face when she realizes that she wasn't abandoned (plus when she realized when it was Finn's idea to go back for her). I can't believe I'm asking this (since I just watched TFA last night ... and my memory is not what it once was), but did Finn and Rey ever learn of each other's backstory (i.e. Rey being abandoned by her parents and Finn being taken from his)? It seems like they have that in common, and that is maybe why they are close (if they know each other's situation). Other things I noticed the second time:1. I didn't see last time that the stable boy at the end uses the Force.2. I caught the Hardware Wars reference this time (someone earlier in this thread pointed it out, so I was kind of looking for it this time).3. I read Mark Hamill played one of the people in the casino. I think I read it was the alien who put coins into BB-8. If that is true, that character had a laugh at the end of that scene that sounded somewhat like the Joker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metropolis Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 Aping the Prequels = Everything Casino World That wasn't aping the prequels. That was an excuse to not only give Finn something to do, but to shove a weak SJW agenda down our throats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Robin Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 I don't know about that. Maybe both is happening at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 Aping the Prequels = Everything Casino WorldThat wasn't aping the prequels. That was an excuse to not only give Finn something to do, but to shove a weak SJW agenda down our throats. Oh here we go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Darth Hunter Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 Question (that may have been answered already). If Kylo didn't know about Rey until the events of TFA, and TLJ takes place immediately after, how did he have time to track her down and find out her backstory?Good question. In the TFA novel when Rey takes the lighstaber after Kylo nearly killed Finn: Rey appeared equally shocked that her reach for the device had exceeded his. She gazed down at the weapon now resting in her grip. "It is you," Ren murmured. His words unsettled her: Not for the first time, he seemed to know more about her than she did about herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Wader Posted December 20, 2017 Author Share Posted December 20, 2017 I thought he might have discovered it when he was reading her mind in TFA getting info about the map - that's why he knows that she has repressed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Darth Hunter Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 That would be the simplest explanation. He dug it up himself from her mind. Though I remember in the film he also dug up visions of Ahch-To. He describes seeing an island. Rey had only seen part of the map and had never left Jakku before then. She didn't know what the actual location was or looked like. The "it is you" recognition in the book does play up that there was going to be more to Rey than her coming from nothing. Though I'll admit the novels have to be discounted no matter how "official" they are, since after all, the ROTJ novel said Owen Lars had been Obi-Wan's brother. By the way, the novel also says Snoke had been alive since the PT era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest madddox Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 rose should have just managed to push finn's ship out of the way and fly into the battering ram beam herself, destroying the ram and dying in the process. it would have perfectly fit with the theme of "save the people you love, rather than destroy the thing you hate". it would have saved the resistance and would have contributed to finn's character arc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odine Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 rose should have just managed to push finn's ship out of the way and fly into the battering ram beam herself, destroying the ram and dying in the process. it would have perfectly fit with the theme of "save the people you love, rather than destroy the thing you hate". it would have saved the resistance and would have contributed to finn's character arc.I totally agree. But then they would have not been able to fill the ethnic diversity quota in "important" secondary characters by killing off the only major Chinese role. Oh, modernity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest madddox Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 shes vietnamese also, they needed an on-screen kiss to mirror ESB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odine Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 Needed?? Or wanted. That kiss was not essential in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poe Dameron Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 Aping the Prequels = Everything Casino WorldThat wasn't aping the prequels. That was an excuse to not only give Finn something to do, but to shove a weak SJW agenda down our throats. Oh here we go Oh, c'mon, admit it. They stopped the movie twice to run with a completely out of place and thematically weird broadsides on the casino folks. All it needed was Keenen Ivory Wayans showing up dressed as a mailman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest El Chalupacabra Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 Needed?? Or wanted. That kiss was not essential in any way.It wasn't necessary, but didn't bother me, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts