The I've Seen The Last Jedi Thread (spoilers OBV)

[Tank]

I'm going bonkers between all these threads-- but I swear I've posted this several times.

 

R2 is Luke's navigator, always has been. Luke found a map to the first Jedi temple, R2 helped him plot the course, but then he left R2 behind and told him to erase the map.

 

People knew what Luke was looking for so they did the same homework. The map to the Temple WAS the map to Luke. That's the only way it could make sense. That info is hard to come by and fragmented, so the map was incomplete. R2 was able to fill the gaps given what was still fragmented in his memory.

[Lord Darth Hunter]

I mean I don't think we are supposed to be like "yeah Luke what you did is awesome. great job!" We are supposed to be like "WTF are you doing!" It's supposed to make you angry at him.

Interesting, that's a take I hadn't heard. You think Luke was intentionally written this way to piss people off?

[Tank]

Maybe not to piss off-- but most definitely to be problematic and defy expectations. The entire movie is about defying expectations.

[Odine]

And learning from failure.

 

 

IRONY

[Ryn]

Re: the iron - it's a Hardware Wars reference.

 

smh fake geek boys.

 

[Brett]

Boy oh boy... uh, where to start. "Mess" is an adequate descriptor. Hot mess.

The first twenty to thirty minutes I was bored to tears. I thought it was prequel level incompetence. Then, not sure when exactly (maybe when Del Toro shows up), it takes a hard right turn into "entertaining" and then briefly peaks two or three times at "near brilliance" before pulling the rug and kicking me back in the nuts.

Half an hour could have EASILY been chopped off the beginning. The Rose/Finn subplot and most of the space chase was boring and inconsequential. [Did anyone else wonder if the Cat Race Casino planet was a Grim Fandango nod?]

The humor was flat with a capital F and there was way too much cringe-y dialogue. They used the insult "snake" twice. Why? That opening scene between Poe and Huxley was just weird. Tonally it reminded me a lot of the opening of Revenge of the Sith, where it starts with a big tension-less space battle, interspersed with odd attempts at yucks.

This movie (75% of the time), on a purely cinematographic level, was hideous. It was flat, grey, lifeless and poorly lit. I would suspect it was the theater, but TFA looked the same way (at least that had more color saturation)

Yoda was cute, but (this is purely personal) I felt like his presence dissolved a lot of tension. He basically shows up and says "**** you, young Skywalker... all of this, pointless it is! Trippy other realms of consciousness have I experienced! Eehh heheh!" He always kind of was, but he pretty much shows up as a Buddha in this.

Oh, the Knights of Ren were just other students who abandoned Luke? Ok, sure. Cool. So, standard Jedi academy uniform was, like, super-badass space-bounty-hunter garb? Right. And where exactly are these students now? Retcon alert.

There are still no stakes. What the fresh hell is going on in this galaxy beyond one evil navy chasing around a paramilitary group? Who the **** is even in charge? I assume there's some kind of central galactic government, right? This whole new trilogy just feels like some pointless, fringe conflict. In the OT you SEE the Empire colonizing people. Like, in their ROTS review, Redlettermedia joked that an average joe could commute to work as usual without this "galactic war" affecting his life in the slightest. It's the same goddamn thing here (well, except for those three planets that were blown to ****) Here's a question: what do those jackasses on casino planet think of all this? I'd really like to know.

I was almost entirely sucked in and on board with this movie at the peak of the Rey/Kylo/Snoke scene. If she had joined Kylo I would have been willing to forgive Rey's complete lack of a character arc up until that point. GOD that would have been awesome. Like Snoke says (?) that her assurity and strong-will about everything ends up being her downfall, because she doesn't really know ****. NOPE. Turns out she does, and her character goes from possibly taking on a VERY intriguing new angle to - nah, Kylo's still evil and she's still super-great. Boring. Boring. Boring. I think they just wrote themselves into too clever and intelligent a corner, realized the implications, and decided they couldn't make a movie for the masses along those lines... essentially killing their own idea in their own movie.

Snoke's death, though interesting that they "went there", makes no sense. Sure, they can bring him back by saying it was an illusion/trick/he has a clone/whatever... but let's assume he's dead...you don't set up a first-tier villain and then get rid of them without passing on their information/purpose to another character first. But, no, we're two movies in and we don't know what he actually wanted beyond killing Luke for the sake of some vague "balance of the force" thing. What was his overall plan/goal? Well, it doesn't matter now. And now there's no clear way to build the stakes in the next film. IF you're going to bump off an "important" character there must be a passing of the baton. ie Kylo Ren takes whatever Snoke's grandiose intentions were and uses them for his own sadistic ends. The whole thing was a dead end, as was the case with most of the JJ Abrams' "mystery box" nonsense.

Daisy Ridley just doesn't have enough screen presence, charisma or acting range to make Rey empathetic or compelling... and that's in addition to the basic writing problems. I know it's been beaten to death, and people hate the "Mary Sue" label (so do I), but it keeps coming up for a reason. Rian Johnson had ONE shot at remedy-ing this and he chose to pass it up. He could have explored her girl-scout-itis as being a blind spot to the true nature of things... of the force/morality... that perhaps Ben Solo has a point. Maybe she inflated her own sense of importance. But no, the lesson is: keep hammering away at other people's insecurities and doubts until you're proven right. I find the Rey character tiresome. The half-baked theme of the film: failure opening the door to growth - (technically) applies to everyone but Rey. Who has still yet to fail.

This movie slammed the door on 1) all of Abrams' open-ended plot threads 2) and on it's own philosophical and ideological narrative potential. It gave us amazing ideas and then cut them off at the head, leaving us with a black and white ribbon adorning an empty box. Honestly, where do they even go from here? They kept mentioning "this is the spark, the spark, the spark". Soooo... the other "good" factions couldn't get their asses in gear after THREE planets were blown to smithereens, but now they will because??? Luke sacrificed himself? Because Laura Dern sacrificed herself? Because the only people interested in fighting back are now, for all intents and purposes, decimated? How do the exploits of a hand full of resistance fighters waging some ancient periphery war motivate potential allies more than the wholesale destruction of planets?
Is Rey going to lead an army of children against the First Order in the next one, or is it going to take place years later? Frankly, I don't care!

[Lord Darth Hunter]

Does anyone find it odd that they used OT footage of Yoda rather than doing a new CGI animation? Were they trying to save money? Were they having a hard time making it look good?

[Metropolis]

They made a new puppet. He wasn't cgi.

[pavonis]

I was almost entirely sucked in and on board with this movie at the peak of the Rey/Kylo/Snoke scene. If she had joined Kylo I would have been willing to forgive Rey's complete lack of a character arc up until that point. GOD that would have been awesome. Like Snoke says (?) that her assurity and strong-will about everything ends up being her downfall, because she doesn't really know ****. NOPE. Turns out she does, and her character goes from possibly taking on a VERY intriguing new angle to - nah, Kylo's still evil and she's still super-great. ... He could have explored her girl-scout-itis as being a blind spot to the true nature of things... of the force/morality... that perhaps Ben Solo has a point. ...

What would Episode IX be about if Rey joined Kylo and the First Order? What point does Ben/Kylo have?

[Brett]

 

What would Episode IX be about if Rey joined Kylo and the First Order? What point does Ben/Kylo have?

 

I don't know. I would have to think it through more, but at the bare minimum they could have created a more ambiguous ending. Hold the tension. At the end of ESB Luke doesn't really commit against Vader per se. He goes into denial and chooses death (potentially) instead. The conflict is held until Jedi. The door was still open, story-wise, for what path he would choose. This film should have at least had Rey and Kylo part ways with the question still up in the air. They nicely built an empathy between the two characters and then immediately had them ideologically separate again. It was a waste.

[Guest]

As for the argument that people don't care about planets being blown up, it's been maybe two days? Who knows if the news has even spread. TLJ picked up right at the moment TFA ended, and they had 18 hours worth of fuel, it's not like this has taken place over weeks.

[Filthy Jawa]

You know, it just dawned on me, Luke did exactly what Leia told him to do in ROTJ when he was about to face Vader. He ran away, far away.

[Guest Robin]

The First Order destroyed entire planets, Kylo Ren murdered Han Solo!

-Rey Nobi-Wan

 

I dont know bout that.

-Luke Skywalker

 

Waaarrrrarrrggh wah wah.

-Chewbacca

 

I may not be a smart man, Chewie, but I know what the Force is.

-Luke Skywalker

[Guest Robin]

Anyone else think the opening super slow flying bomber scene might be more dramatic if coupled with the theme from Jaws? ;-)

[Quetzalcoatl]

On some perverse level, I wanted to see Rey turn as well. It was hard for me to buy Anakin's turn in the PT, and despite what we were told in the OT, I never got the sense that Luke was ever in any real danger of turning. I think TLJ set up a turn that would have worked on screen and been believable. Rey is what Anakin should have been in the prequels. Her story should have been his, minus the fact that he turns and she doesn't. Rey and Anakin have a lot of the same issues. They were both separated by their parents at a critical age, and they are both quick (too quick) to form personal attachments. Its what ultimately led to Anakin's fall, and it could have just as easily led to Rey's. Only in the case of Rey the turn would have been so much more powerful and believable. I feel like these new films nailed something that Lucas aspired to do but fell short of. For the record, I no longer want to see Rey turn. It would look like doubling back if the story went that way now. But I think the ST had a lot of potential for being the tragic story of a fallen hero that I wanted from the PT and never quite got.

[Mara Jade Skywalker]

That's interesting, because Kylo is basically what I wanted Anakin to be.

[The Choc]

I agree this is essentially what the prequels could ahve been, up to this point.

 

Episode I-the backstory of him running off to Snoke

Episode II-his complete fall to the dark shown by killing Han

Episode III-his coming into his true power when he killed Snoke

[Darth Krawlie]

Hey guys Im finally gonna see this in like an hour

[Metropolis]

Going back myself for a second viewing. Maybe having a couple of adolescents with me will soften my cold black heart.

[Filthy Jawa]

And like all cartoons, BB-8 finally gives up and bangs the whole console with his head to "fix it."

Digging up a comment from ten pages back.

 

I did not like a lot of the attempts at humour in this film, but that one felt like a nice call-back to the OT and how dire problems were solved for the heroes at times. It may have been slightly more cartoonish, but I was okay with it.

 

It was early in the movie though, maybe I was still being optimistic.

[Tank]

Han bangs his fist on the Falcon console to get it to stay on. Just sayin...

[Metropolis]

So on my second viewing I've changed my mind. I don't hate it as much as I did. Still got issues with it, but it was an easier view this time around.

[Filthy Jawa]

Han bangs his fist on the Falcon console to get it to stay on. Just sayin...

Exactly.

[Poe Dameron]

That's interesting, because Kylo is basically what I wanted Anakin to be.

Kylo is pretty much a carbon copy of Anakin already. The only difference is their motivation. And, heck, I wrote a fan fiction screenplay 15 years ago where Anakin had a similar motivation for turning to the Dark Side between AotC and RotS. Just replace Obi-Wan as the one who messed up instead of Luke.

[Mara Jade Skywalker]

Kylo is a lot better written and acted. *shrug*