The I've Seen The Last Jedi Thread (spoilers OBV)

[Darth Wicket]

"hmm, needs more salt"

Pun intended?

[The Choc]

The seduction to rewrite is as strong as the Dark Side. XD

 

Re: not knowing Carrie was going to die.

 

Totally true, but I have always operated under the push to kill Leia in these films so I was not thinking of offing her because Carrie died, I just like the moment for that character.

I didn't think any of them would get through the movies alive but I also am open to the possibility that she could have had an impactful role in IX.

[Guest Robin]

That seems what they were going for. With Luke force ghost helping the teaching process with a force trained Leia as the living master to Rey.

 

She even had Yodas cane... not literally, of course.

[Lord Darth Hunter]

When you watch Star Wars it feels like when they travel to Alderaan, or the remains of it, that even at hyperspace a good amount of time passes. In TLJ it feels almost instantaneous. I'm not one to complain that every single thing has to conform to what happened in 1977, not even close, but this is one thing I don't like. And it's not a TLJ problem, its something that has developed over time in the movies. It's basically the same thing in Rogue One where Imperials show up from across the Galaxy in minutes and Alliance ships do as well right in the middle of the same battle.

 

It's one of those things where over time hyperspace has become more and more of a quick plot device and now has come down to almost just being a character can appear any place at any time. Like I said though it seems more of a saga problem that has developed over time rather than something I can throw at the feet of Johnson or TLJ.

 

I'm not sure it's developed over time as much as it's become a "character" under Disney Star Wars. I can't recall any convenient hyperspace plot devices in the OT or PT. It became a plot convenience in TFA when Han took off straight into hyperspace from his ship carrying the Rathars while a Rathar was hanging on to the cockpit and got obliterated. Then he came out of lighstpeed straight onto Starkiller Base. As you mentioned, from there it's only gotten worse in Rebels and R1.

[Guest El Chalupacabra]

OK, just got back from second viewing of TLJ, and after having rewatched TFA last night. The issues I had with TLJ on the first viewing are still there but bother me a lot less.

 

Knowing what to expect definitely helps! Also, there is a LOT going on, and I don't think I fully absorbed TLJ on the first viewing. If you are like me and were underwhelmed and only have seen it once, do yourself a favor and see it again. It DOES help.

 

Here are some observations (more may come, depending on if I feel the need to get it out):

 

1. I am still bothered by Luke pulling his saber, but Luke looks less culpable second time around and Kylo more culpable, to me.

2. Hyperspace chase still bothers me, but it appeared to to me that the chase was sub-hyperspace. Still don't have a good answer as to why the first order didn't have a battle group warp ahead of the rebels, but I accept it more and now just chalk it up to hubris and overconfidence

3. I like Rose even more!

4. Still scratching my head as to how Rey magically appears on the Falcon, but I chalk that up to possibly bad editing. We know the movie was trimmed to be shown in theaters.

5. This time around, it struck me that we did get a bit of the Cruel Tutelage of Mai Pei from Luke, like I said I wanted a long while back. Its more subtle, and I kind of missed it the first time around. (IE Luke walking off, Rey sleeping outside his door)

6. Porgs! Love 'em. Ditto on Chewie. And they remind me of Gizka.

7. Bombers in space and gravity. Bothered me at first, this time it occurs to me that these massive ships have artificial gravity, AND the bombs could be magnetic. So bombing the Dreadnought works for me.

8. Canto Bight is less obnoxious, but still feels like the PT. Still wasn't necessary. I still HATE the DJ character.

9. I missed the "do you feel that...it's the force"...slap! scene (bio break called) the first time. It was hilarious!

10. Finally, after seeing TFA last night, again, I think the two movies DO jibe pretty well, after all. It has been about a month since I saw TFA, and it wasn't as fresh in my mind on the first viewing (plus I was doing stuff around the house while watching). Last night, I watched it intently, paying attention to details more closely. Rey's parents are TOTALLY telegraphed in TFA, in retrospect. I like her NOT being a Skywalker much more, now.

[captainbleh]

Yeah, it (insta-hyperspace) is a Disney Star Wars thing and I really don't like it. Keep telling myself it's not that important, but it still hurts. Travel time just isn't a thing in plots anymore.

[The Choc]

4-I'm pretty sure when Rey is on the Falcon going TO meet Kylo she says something to Chewie about getting in touch with him when the time comes. So it seems pretty straight forward, she took Snoke's escape shuttle as mentioned by Hux and contracted Chewie from that shuttle.

 

As for the idea of hyperspace being magic now, i agree it is a thing only since Disney took over. I think though that the idea of the hyperspace escape, which is fairly prevalent in the OT (they escape into hyperspace in ANH, then all of ESB is them not being able to escape into hyperspace and then at the end they do escape into hyperspace) isn't used even once in the PT. So it kinda couldnt be an issue in the PT. I like how this movie undid the idea of just going to hyperspace to escape. I like that it took that away. I don't like that ships can just show up whenever they want out of hyperspace like that. It's one of those minor things that I don't dwell on but I don;t like it.

[The Choc]

OK, just got back from second viewing of TLJ, and after having rewatched TFA last night. The issues I had with TLJ on the first viewing are still there but bother me a lot less.

 

Knowing what to expect definitely helps! Also, there is a LOT going on, and I don't think I fully absorbed TLJ on the first viewing. If you are like me and were underwhelmed and only have seen it once, do yourself a favor and see it again. It DOES help.

 

Here are some observations (more may come, depending on if I feel the need to get it out):

 

1. I am still bothered by Luke pulling his saber, but Luke looks less culpable second time around and Kylo more culpable, to me.

2. Hyperspace chase still bothers me, but it appeared to to me that the chase was sub-hyperspace. Still don't have a good answer as to why the first order didn't have a battle group warp ahead of the rebels, but I accept it more and now just chalk it up to hubris and overconfidence

3. I like Rose even more!

4. Still scratching my head as to how Rey magically appears on the Falcon, but I chalk that up to possibly bad editing. We know the movie was trimmed to be shown in theaters.

5. This time around, it struck me that we did get a bit of the Cruel Tutelage of Mai Pei from Luke, like I said I wanted a long while back. Its more subtle, and I kind of missed it the first time around. (IE Luke walking off, Rey sleeping outside his door)

6. Porgs! Love 'em! Ditto on Chewie

7. Bombers in space and gravity. Bothered me at first, this time it occurs to me that these massive ships have artificial gravity, AND the bombs could be magnetic. So bombing the Dreadnought works for me.

8. Canto Bight is less obnoxious, but still feels like the PT. Still wasn't necessary. I still HATE the DJ character.

9. I missed the "do you feel that...it's the force"...slap! scene (bio break called) the first time. It was hilarious!

10. Finally, after seeing TFA last night, again, I think the two movies DO jibe pretty well, after all. It has been about a month since I saw TFA, and it wasn't as fresh in my mind on the first viewing (plus I was doing stuff around the house while watching). Last night, I watched it intently, paying attention to details more closely. Rey's parents are TOTALLY telegraphed in TFA, in retrospect. I like her NOT being a Skywalker much more, now.

 

This is kinda how I felt after seeing it a 2nd time. The stuff that I liked the first time I still liked or liked even more. The stuff that bothered me the first time bothered me less and in some cases I even flipped completely to liking.

[Tank]

4-I'm pretty sure when Rey is on the Falcon going TO meet Kylo she says something to Chewie about getting in touch with him when the time comes. So it seems pretty straight forward, she took Snoke's escape shuttle as mentioned by Hux and contracted Chewie from that shuttle.

 

As for the idea of hyperspace being magic now, i agree it is a thing only since Disney took over. I think though that the idea of the hyperspace escape, which is fairly prevalent in the OT (they escape into hyperspace in ANH, then all of ESB is them not being able to escape into hyperspace and then at the end they do escape into hyperspace) isn't used even once in the PT. So it kinda couldnt be an issue in the PT. I like how this movie undid the idea of just going to hyperspace to escape. I like that it took that away. I don't like that ships can just show up whenever they want out of hyperspace like that. It's one of those minor things that I don't dwell on but I don;t like it.

It's not a "Disney" thing. The PT played fast and loose with it too.

 

It's like Jack Bauer in 24 with LA traffic. If he needs to be in the valley in the next episode it'll take 5 minutes. If we need somebody to be held up, they are in transit. Honestly, with 24, knowing LA traffic you had time for maybe two plot points in a 24 hour period.

[Filthy Jawa]

 

Im Bombs and I fall in space.

 

I'm so glad I'm not the only one that was annoyed by that. I don't get into physics in sci fi fantasy movies, but that irked me.

Maybe they're magna-bombs?

[Lord Darth Hunter]

 

4-I'm pretty sure when Rey is on the Falcon going TO meet Kylo she says something to Chewie about getting in touch with him when the time comes. So it seems pretty straight forward, she took Snoke's escape shuttle as mentioned by Hux and contracted Chewie from that shuttle. As for the idea of hyperspace being magic now, i agree it is a thing only since Disney took over. I think though that the idea of the hyperspace escape, which is fairly prevalent in the OT (they escape into hyperspace in ANH, then all of ESB is them not being able to escape into hyperspace and then at the end they do escape into hyperspace) isn't used even once in the PT. So it kinda couldnt be an issue in the PT. I like how this movie undid the idea of just going to hyperspace to escape. I like that it took that away. I don't like that ships can just show up whenever they want out of hyperspace like that. It's one of those minor things that I don't dwell on but I don;t like it.

It's not a "Disney" thing. The PT played fast and loose with it too.It's like Jack Bauer in 24 with LA traffic. If he needs to be in the valley in the next episode it'll take 5 minutes. If we need somebody to be held up, they are in transit. Honestly, with 24, knowing LA traffic you had time for maybe two plot points in a 24 hour period.

I don't recall hyperspace being used like this in the PT?

[Guest El Chalupacabra]

 

 

Im Bombs and I fall in space.

I'm so glad I'm not the only one that was annoyed by that. I don't get into physics in sci fi fantasy movies, but that irked me.

Maybe they're magna-bombs?

 

And as I pondered above, these massive ships the size of asteroids also have artificial gravity, too.

[Mara Jade Skywalker]

Hyperspace has always moved at the speed of plot, even in the EU.

 

Anakin arrives on Mustafar almost instantaneously in RotS. And they return to Coruscant just as fast.

[Tank]

 

 

4-I'm pretty sure when Rey is on the Falcon going TO meet Kylo she says something to Chewie about getting in touch with him when the time comes. So it seems pretty straight forward, she took Snoke's escape shuttle as mentioned by Hux and contracted Chewie from that shuttle. As for the idea of hyperspace being magic now, i agree it is a thing only since Disney took over. I think though that the idea of the hyperspace escape, which is fairly prevalent in the OT (they escape into hyperspace in ANH, then all of ESB is them not being able to escape into hyperspace and then at the end they do escape into hyperspace) isn't used even once in the PT. So it kinda couldnt be an issue in the PT. I like how this movie undid the idea of just going to hyperspace to escape. I like that it took that away. I don't like that ships can just show up whenever they want out of hyperspace like that. It's one of those minor things that I don't dwell on but I don;t like it.

It's not a "Disney" thing. The PT played fast and loose with it too.It's like Jack Bauer in 24 with LA traffic. If he needs to be in the valley in the next episode it'll take 5 minutes. If we need somebody to be held up, they are in transit. Honestly, with 24, knowing LA traffic you had time for maybe two plot points in a 24 hour period.

 

I don't recall hyperspace being used like this in the PT?

 

As a weapon/plot device? No. But in terms of how long it takes to get somewhere being set in stone-- no way. It always takes as long as the plot needs it to.

[DANA-kin Skywalker]

Bombs dropping in space:

 

Gravity has always present while on spaceships, so people always walk instead of float, things drop to the ground, etc. The bombs are INSIDE the ship, so they drop down.

 

Large ships like the death star with hangars wide open to space which don't get blown out into the vacuum of space. ANH mentions a "magnetic field" which keeps everything inside the hangar while allowing something to come in (or go out) at the same time.

 

Apply these two Star Wars logics and thats how the bombs drop out of the bomber wings.

[Djo]

Hi Nightly peeps. This is the only place I know of that I can post spoilerful thoughts so here they are:

 

I have seen The Last Jedi twice now and I loved it both times. The second time I was able to sit back and take in the gorgeous scenery, fabulous tracking shots and wonderful use of back and side lighting to symbolise the conflict between light and dark. I could also sit back and truly enjoy the performances of all the actors but especially those of Mark Hamill and Adam Driver.

 

There's so much I really enjoyed and a couple of things I didnt hate but could do without.

 

I truly enjoyed the humour. Star Wars has always about fun amongst the profound and Rian Johnson has managed to add self aware to the mix. From the cutesy Porgs to General Hux's over the top Villain, each element managed to induce a laugh in all the right places from the two audiences I was a part of - and then the scene moved on. As well as the Porgs and Hux, I loved, Poe "tooling with" (is that what he said?) Hux, The Caretakers' exasperation with Rey, Luke playing off Rey's naive understanding of the Force and Leia's self awareness of saga-wide proportions with a cheeky reference to her hairstyle. I also enjoyed Rose and Finn's dynamic as Rose moved quickly from overawed pipe-dweller to Resistance equal; continuing the theme of myth busting that started when Luke tossed the Lightsaber. Could do without? BB-8 being used as a slot machine and especially when he used the coins as weapons.

 

How wonderful is it to see such fabulous character acting from all and how wonderful to see a well known and respected actor such as Laura Dern get more than just a cameo. Apparently she has been a Star Wars fan since she was a kid and was overjoyed to have been a part of the Last Jedi . Her contribution was both surprising and satisfying. It was also neat seeing Ade Edmonson as Hux's second in command with more to do than just so yes sir. I spotted Game of Thrones actor Kate Dickie in one of those blink and you will miss it parts. And Lily Cole had a part that I feel may expand in the next episode?? Possible allies for the Resistance or just a missed opportunity on Finn and Rose's part? Could have done without not seeing more of Gwendoline Christie (ie I wanted to see more of Captain Phasma). I do hope that armor of hers protected her from a fiery death and Phasma lives to try then fail to torment Finn another day.

 

It's just a joy to be able to say that all the acting is terrific and Adam driver especially is superb. My second viewing consolidated this. He is all that Hayden Christensen should have been. An inspired casting that has paid off big time in this episode. I havent seen much of Driver's work but I will now go and seek some out.

 

Daisy Ridley keeps growing along with Rey as she moves towards a greater understanding of her purpose.

 

Mark Hamill also surprised nailing the wise yet grouchy hermit/unwilling mentor/scared and disappointed uncle/Jedi Master with a new trick up his sleeve. Nailed it I say! Carrie's last appearance had been on the verge of tears with nearly all he scenes (possibly a little distracting) and she handled the role with a lot more gravitas and aplomb than she managed in TFA. I was in two minds about her force trick until I looked at it as a way to remind us of how powerful the Jedi can be. Pulling off her inevitable demise is going to be tricky though.

 

So what's not to love. Yes the chase scene on crazy-not-horses may have been a little too close to a Prequal era misstep, but I for one like what the Casino scenes were trying to say about the politics of the Star Wars Universe. Unlike the Prequels, this was done without excessive exposition and the story moved on to better things soon enough...

 

...like that awesome final battle! Who ever came up with the design detail of red salt below snowy ground deserves an Academy Award.

 

What else?

• Snoke? I'm not worried that he is gone without a backstory because I have always been a fan of the Expanded Universe novels and these days many of them are considered Canon. I'm looking forward to reading about how Snoke came to be a Sith and Supreme Leader. I can understand though that many may not like having to go elsewhere for this tale. We should remember that we knew very little about Emperor Palpatine during the OT era...
• The Millennium Falcon coming in to save the day is always a welcome sight.
• Kylo Ren's weakness is his conflicted feelings for his family and Hux's reminder to stay focused really was warranted. Like Vader's obsession with finding Luke distracted him from sinking his jackboot further into the Galaxy. But who's to argue with a Sith Lord?
• So Luke stopped to get a haircut and build a new Lightsaber? Not! Fooled me though. Watching again it was cool how Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon astral projected Luke managed to maintain the illusion long enough to allow the Resistance to escape.
• Ren foreshadowed Luke's demise by telling Rey that she could not have been responsible for their force link as the effort would have killed her. The effort of projecting for all to see proved too much even for the "great" Luke Skywalker.
• Leis was supposed to feature in the next one and I'm wondering if now we will see more of Luke's Force ghost than originally intended?
• Yoda proved that Force ghosts can actually manipulate nature. Mmmm...
• I missed it on first viewing but that young lad at the end used the Force to pick up his broom. Cool little detail that proved that Force users come from everywhere and can be nobodies - we move full circle from young Anakin. Made that scene worthwhile for me.

So overall I place this one as the best since the OT. Rogue One has grown on me with multiple viewings but it still sits just below TFA. With TFA I was so relieved that it was better than the Prequals - and I was a fan and defender in these Forums of what Lucas was trying to do back then. I love the familiar beats with new characters who I trusted would eventually take us in a different direction. TLJ rewarded that trust and I'm now invested in Rey, Poe, & Finn as they take us beyond the Skywalker Legacy - leaving only a conflicted, dark Kylo Ren who appears to have left Ben Solo well and truly behind.

 

Thanks Nightly for providing a forum for my thoughts. I fondly remember many Prequal era (and harry Potter) debates here. As an OT original viewer I was 10 when ANH first hit the screens I'm excited to see the Star Wars Universe expanding and moving on.

 

Cheers all!

 

 

 

 

 

[Metropolis]

Bless your heart.

[Filthy Jawa]

Finally saw it this afternoon. I'm going in the 'pretty sure I did not like it' camp. Although there were plenty of things I did like. I read all of your comments so as not to be too redundant so I'll list some of the things you guys said that I agree with.

 

I like Shadowdog's post about how everything was shocking. All the things that happen in every other movie, didn't happen here. I agree and I enjoyed all the fake outs, but immediately after I just felt like that was all there was to them -Johnson patting himself on the back for being so unpredictable. If those fake outs had served a better story, I would be happier.

 

Tank and many others loved the humour, particularly the "holding for Hux" bit. I liked Poe doing that, it was consistent with his humour in TFA, but it became too ludicrous for my liking. It was something from a Will Ferrel movie. Have Poe do it twice then Hux gets it, narrows his eyes, embarrassed and orders them to fire. The good joke is there and Hux, established as a political rival to Kylo in the last movie, isn't rewritten as a buffoon.

 

I also agree with Tusken Raider that Holdo's plan could have been spelled out. This for me is part of why this movie didn't feel like Star Wars - Star Wars is not about keeping plans secret from the audience for a big gotcha moment. There can be shocking moments, but we always know what the plan is, don't we?

 

And some thoughts I haven't seen covered here:

 

TLJ has probably got my least favourite lightsabre fights of all the films. I was so distracted by the (non)design of Snoke's throne room throughout that scene, and it's the only real lightsabre battle in the movie. It looked like a dance performance set. And it's Kylo and Rey against a bunch of stooges? They should have had their names on their shirts like the old Batman show.

 

I predict even people who love this movie will see the horse chase doesn't age well. That was prequels-bad.

 

I seriously disliked Finn running again. You could argue it's a consistent character trait, but wasn't that supposed to be his character arc in TFA? People complained about him after that movie, that he did nothing, but I was okay with him going from wanting to save his own skin, to standing up (to Kylo Ren!) and being a hero at the end. So now we get him running away again as soon as he wakes up? Did Johnson watch that other film?

 

I guess he did because I also got annoyed by all the glaring 'checking of boxes' in the movie that were inessential to the story. Like seeing Maz like that was cute, but took me right out of the movie (I guess they had a contract for Lupita to be in the film so they shoehorned her in?), Rey meets Poe, Leia hugs Chewie (didn't bother me really, but I noticed it), and of course Phasma... why? It would have been so easy to include her in earlier scenes, build up the tension of her axe to grind with Finn, but instead we get her appearing what 4/5ths of the way through the movie just so she can be killed off and Johnson can check another box? The movie was already teetering on the edge of the rails by that point, but all these little moments distracted me further from being absorbed in the action.

 

Hopefully Johnson does better with a story and characters of his own than he did here.

[ShadowDog]

It's been a week or so. Give Finn's character development a chance to sink in for good. He's spent a lifetime wanting to run and just this past week learning a different way to deal with things.

[Filthy Jawa]

Okay if you think of him as a real person, sure, but as a character who has an arc in a movie? That movie is done, that character development should be resolved.

 

Or am I being silly that I want my Star Wars characters to act like characters in a movie?

[The Choc]

In TFA Finn's decision to not run is simply so he can help Rey, not out of any desire to fight the war and help the Resistance

 

At the start of TLJ Finn wants to run so he can take that 2 way beacon away so Rey doesn't show up and fall into Kylo and Snoke's hands.

 

His development in this movie is that he ends up caring about the Resistance and even willing to die to help it.

 

I don't see any problem with the development. At the end of TFA he is all about saving Rey, at the start of this movie he is in that same place, by the end of this movie he is committed to the Resistance.

[Filthy Jawa]

Okay you're right, but it still carried the feeling of 'Finn is one-note' to me. His storyline in the first one was all about him wanting to run away and in this one, his second scene, he tries to run away.

I'll concede that it's different though.

[Filthy Jawa]

I'll tell you what I DID like: R2 playing the old Leia message for Luke. It felt powerful in a whole new way and not like a cheap reference to the OT. It fit the story perfectly. One of the more poetic moments in all of Star Wars.

[Quetzalcoatl]

I just realized something: Shoke's origins are right in front of us. Tank keeps asking "If Snoke is so powerful, where was he when the Emperor reigned?" The answer is: he wasn't that powerful back then. When the Emperor died that left a void on the dark side. The Force demands balance. So after the emperor's death, The Force empowered Snoke to reach that balance. Just as, as stated, when Kylo got more powerful The Force empowered Rey. It's that simple so there's no need for a bunch of backstory about where he was hiding and why didn't the Emperor notice Snoke, etc.

Here's the problem with that logic. There's enough dialogue in the PT and in TLJ to equate "balancing the force" with "destroying the sith." Dark side users are like a cancer. Their existence is what is creating the imbalance, throwing the force into disharmony. Rey, as was Anakin, was the force's way of self-correcting this. Their roles are to eliminate whoever the trouble maker is who is throwing the force out of balance. Balance doesn't mean equal amounts of light and dark. It is the elimination of the dark altogether.

[Guest Robin]

I'll tell you what I DID like: R2 playing the old Leia message for Luke. It felt powerful in a whole new way and not like a cheap reference to the OT. It fit the story perfectly. One of the more poetic moments in all of Star Wars.

That was one of the great moments.