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With Justice League Floundering, Will DC Finally Rethink Their Shared Extended Universe?


93 replies to this topic

#26
Poe Dameron

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Between the comic book characters with names that have the prefix of suffix of man, woman, boy, girl, lad, lass, mister, miss, ms., lady, lord, king, queen, etc., it's gonna be awhile to scrub that out.  Not sure why that's necessary or even desirable though.

 

The odd part is Ms. Marvel long had more cache than Marvel's Captain Marvel.  At least in my lifetime since the original died and there's been a carousel of lesser heroes taking up the mantle for a few years each.  I literally didn't know the character existed until I found out about the whole Shazam snag sometime in my teens, which was what he was most famous for by then.



#27
Tank

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I actually don't disagree. I don't mind Carol being Captain Marvel, but I also liked that as Ms. Marvel she started as a side kick but ended up outlasting the original Marvel and becoming the legacy he never was.

I don't mind the change, I understand it, but it was the one they could have kept.

Also, to be fair, they changed her name 2 other times between the two, one of which stuck for at least a decade.

#28
Brando

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As someone who doesn't give a crap about comics, Captain Marvel sounds cooler, and avoiding a name so your competitor can use it seems stupid.
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#29
Iceheart

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Sounds like Cavill is officially out.

 

And I'm seeing multiple sources name Michael B. Jordan as a likely replacement.

 

Which would be fine except that I was really hoping that the inevitable timeline reboot that's going to happen with Infinity War 2 was going to go far enough back that Killmonger would survive the end of Black Panther and be like a Loki-style antihero.



#30
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Oh man, the fanbros are going to just lose their minds over Jordan being a black human torch and now a black Superman.

 

I love it.



#31
Metropolis

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I don't know what betting odds are, but I would put money in Cavill eventually coming back.

I would have problems with Jordan aside from him being black.

#32
The Choc

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Oh man, the fanbros are going to just lose their minds over Jordan being a black human torch and now a black Superman.

 

I love it.

It's funny a few years ago I probably would have had a problem with it mainly just cause you could never do it the other way around without people really freaking out. However because of exactly what you say, Im totally cool with it now. I hope he gets the gig. Sometimes you gotta look and see the people who agree with you. 



#33
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Oh man, the fanbros are going to just lose their minds over Jordan being a black human torch and now a black Superman.

 

I love it.

<sigh>

 

That's what we need.  For Superman to become the latest symbol of decisiveness and exclusion.



#34
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Tell me what part of Superman's character is inherently white other than that's how he's always been portrayed. Why, after 90 years of him being portrayed as white would it be terrible to have a black Superman? It's a movie. It's not the comic which is "canon" or whatever. (And aside from Steel, I think there's an alternate Earth with a black Superman.
 
"Oh, but why can't they just hype up actual black superheroes like Cyborg or Black Lightning or John Stewart?"
 
They do-- but none of the are Superman. SUPERMAN is the iconic superhero. How would every little kid who loves Superman that happens to be black feel to see their favorite icon have the same color skin as them? Tell me why that would be bad, especially when you know it wouldn't be a permanent change when NOTHING in comics ever is.
 
"Oh but it's just pandering."
 
So what. Give people what they want to make them happy. I don't for one second deny liberals can be crybabies, and that this is over-compensating for the diversity in Hollywood problem, ,but again-- why is it bad? What happens other than a bunch of rigid old fans get bent out of shape. Why is 90 years worth of comics, cartoons and  multiple films not good enough for them? Why can't there be one with a black guy?
 
We don't even know if there will be a canonical explanation or just a recast, or a reboot yet. IF it even happens.
 
"But if they did it the other way around that would never fly."
 
Of course it wouldn't because for every one black superhero there's thirty white ones. White dudes have the market share. Doing it the other way around would be insulting. 
 
I've said this before, and I will say it again. Unless a character's core make-up refers to their race it doesn't matter. Captain America has to be white. Black Panther has to be black. Superman is an alien. If you're saying an alien has to automatically be white, that's just idiotic.
 
There is no harm in doing this. There is no damage to be done. Why is it a big deal. How does it truly effect your life?

That's what we need.  For Superman to become the latest symbol of decisiveness and exclusion.


I'm sure this will lead to me needing to take another break from this site, but who exactly is being excluded with a Black Superman.

#35
Iceheart

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I just want to see an openly Jewish Superman.


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#36
Metropolis

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I remember back when black actors started playing roles that were originally white characters. Usually these we're characters from books only a certain segment of the audience knew anything about. It was news for the time(less internet no social media), but because it was a Denzel Washington, Morgan Freeman, a Will Smith. The actor superceded the role. Now on the superhero front you had people question Michael Clark Duncan playing Kingpin, and Idris Elba playing Heimdall. Now I don't know if they were cast because they were black or because they were actors who fitted the role who happened to be black. Now when you go into a movie like Spider-Man Homecoming (and mostly because race is always a topic these days) you can't help but notice that the cast checks off some sort of Rainbow Coalition checklist. That's on purpose. Didn't affect my enjoyment of the movie, but I'd rather not be preached to.

Give the people what they want? Has anyone asked for a black Superman? I'm sure you mean more cultural diversity, but people complained at first when a Brit was cast in the role.

#37
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Explain how diversity casting is automatically preaching.

#38
Robin

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I once thought about writing something where the protagonists were a team of preachers from all different backgrounds and creeds, sorta like the A-Team they went from place to place preaching by preaching but mostly preaching by doing. I got really excited about it until my wife told me thats the New Testament.
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#39
Brando

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But the New Testament with Mr. T, right?
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#40
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That's Mr. Testament suckah!
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#41
Iceheart

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I once thought about writing something where the protagonists were a team of preachers from all different backgrounds and creeds, sorta like the A-Team they went from place to place preaching by preaching but mostly preaching by doing. I got really excited about it until my wife told me thats the New Testament.

 

 

Dude.



#42
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Explain how diversity casting is automatically preaching.

See Emmy Awards.

You said automatic not me.

#43
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So you can't actually answer the question.

#44
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I'll be fair to Homecoming in this aspect, with the movie set in the Bronx there is a diverse set of people that would be part of Peter's life. When Marvel's objective though is to be more inclusive with their casting, Homecoming stands out as its poster child. As a whole there is nothing wrong with wanting diversity is casting. Instead of just doing it, we're being told that it's being done. We're being told that Hollywood represents everyone black, white, Asian, Hispanic, and lgbtq yada yada. That's why I referenced the Emmy's. They told us they're fixing everything. At this point it's hard to believe they weren't being serious however facetiously.

#45
Poe Dameron

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I'm sure this will lead to me needing to take another break from this site, but who exactly is being excluded with a Black Superman.

 

I don't feel like driving you out of here, so I'm not going to answer most of your post.  I appreciate your taking the time to write it up and I read it, but I'm going to pass on responding for both our sakes.

 

The only thing I'll answer is the above question by pointing to your own post about enjoying fanbros losing their minds and your enjoying it.  That fits my definition of intentional alienation of people.



#46
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I'll be fair to Homecoming in this aspect, with the movie set in the Bronx there is a diverse set of people that would be part of Peter's life. When Marvel's objective though is to be more inclusive with their casting, Homecoming stands out as its poster child. As a whole there is nothing wrong with wanting diversity is casting. Instead of just doing it, we're being told that it's being done. We're being told that Hollywood represents everyone black, white, Asian, Hispanic, and lgbtq yada yada. That's why I referenced the Emmy's. They told us they're fixing everything. At this point it's hard to believe they weren't being serious however facetiously.


See, this is what I call BS on. This idea of pandering or that "we're being told."

They are doing it yes, but again the only thing that seems to mark it as different is when races are changed from what they were once seen as. So it seems like more industries are acknowledging institutional racism and claiming to do something about it-- and that's bad?

Again-- tell me the problem. What is going to happen that is so terrible from all this.
 
 

The only thing I'll answer is the above question by pointing to your own post about enjoying fanbros losing their minds and your enjoying it.  That fits my definition of intentional alienation of people.




Me, a middle aged white dude who's read comics for 30 years enjoying the uncomfortable fretting of more insecure, hate change, like-it-their-way, middle aged white dudes who've read comics all their lives is JUST me, having a laugh. I'm enjoying the discomfort of people I generally think need to shut up. I'm not in a power position to exclude anybody. I'm just enjoying the "I'm not racist but..." fanboys sweating bullets.

Who, again, have had 90 years worth of comics, countless animated series, memorabilia, three TV series, and 7-8 motion pictures having it "their" way. If you want to be championing some poor folk being excluded from the fun, how about minorities who've never had an icon at the level of Superman.

I ask you the same thing I'm asking Met. Just what exactly do you think is so awful about this personally. What's the worst thing that is going to happen?

#47
Poe Dameron

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What's the worst thing that is going to happen?

 

A former symbol of unity becoming yet another symbol of divisiveness and exclusion.  An increase in the tribalism that is marking today's American society that fosters growing racial stratification and extremism.



#48
Iceheart

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For someone who likes to browbeat anyone who doesn't have the exact same opinion as you, you sure like to talk about "divisiveness and exclusion" (or is that decisiveness?) and how bad they are when it comes to a comic book character.

 

You never thought that maybe anyone other than white dudes felt excluded by how much of a lily-white sausage fest comics usually are, especially classic comics?

 

Oh yeah, and then there's the fact that Superman was created by a couple of Jewish kids, likely using Jewish myths and real Jewish people they were raised around and familiar with to model the character on, as well as probably John Henry - a black man. And the character was very pro-immigration at a time when national sentiments ran anti-immigration - something CW's Supergirl leans into very obviously in the title sequence of every episode since the Syrian refugee crisis began. The Superman radio show had villains using Klan phrases that were supposed to be secret during the period when the Klan was at its most powerful and influential, taking the group down a peg in the public eye. Superman was never supposed to represent "unity," he's supposed to be subversive. Controversial casting would very much be fitting with Superman's origins and history, and would probably have Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster fist-pumping with glee in their very Jewish hereafter.


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#49
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I'm not a cheerleader for it, and I don't even really believe it, but who is being excluded?

If anything, it'd be a marketing thing to try to resurrect interest in a character they've handled horribly. No different from any shocking change in the comics.

#50
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doublepost



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