Jump to content

Welcome to Nightly.Net
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Sexual Harassment


168 replies to this topic

#26
Poe Dameron

Poe Dameron

    Member

  • Member
  • 2,485 posts
but I think theres a deeper psychological problem with Pence

 

Of course, because it fits your worldview.  The papers, articles, and the environment you surround yourself in lets the echo chamber call for rather ridiculous statements like the above.  At worst, Pence's behavior marks as quaint.

 

Just take a look at this thread.  The world would be a whole lot better if men shifted more towards erring on the side of propriety than the sewer of what the current culture calls for in men and that leads to whole cultures of sexual harassment where you dig deep and wonder how it got that bad.  I'm all for a little more quaintness in our views towards women.  Bring such notions back and celebrate them for goodness sake.  Teach it to young boys.  Because if they internalize that women are to be treated respectfully and marriage vows prized and held sacred, that's a damn good thing for both men and women.

 

 

 

By the way, newbie, you really have no call to insult me.

 

Because I noted that your words reflect on you?  Very well.



#27
Tex

Tex

    Member

  • Member
  • 0 posts
Women love to pout. Just like kids. I find it funny that so many of them demonize men when they really just want to get ****ed hard.

Men can be pigs, no argument there, but I really think that the bulk of the complaints and accusations come from complicit women who feel like they got jipped on the final cut and want to bitch about it.

What's interesting about recent developments is that the high heeled, red nailed, fully manicured types are bonding with the fat lonely lesbians. They all feel left out.

The REAL women are those that find happiness their own way. They are the ones that helped vote Hillary out of the white house.

#28
Justus

Justus

    Member

  • Member
  • 13,091 posts

Pence is no gentleman, hes a creepy old man with antiquated views. If his rule really is just to avoid dinners (is it really just the last meal of the day, or all meals?) alone with women (even his female relatives?), it may look gentlemanly to you, and it may even keep him free of sex scandals, but I think theres a deeper psychological problem with Pence. If he did the same with any other demographic, would it be considered gentlemanly?

By the way, newbie, you really have no call to insult me. We do not agree on much (maybe just that Star Wars is a film series) and we dont get along, but I dont attack you personally. I have never insinuated that youre not a gentleman, for instance, unless youre Pence himself.

Moving past what appears to be your animosity toward anyone who is (apparently) deeply religious, Pence's method is no different than anyone who will not consciously place themselves in situations where there's a risk of temptation, whether the temptation is sex, alcohol, drugs, food, gambling--whatever. That is not an antiquated view, but common senses framed by a supportive belief. 

 

Its rather odd for Pence's personal guide to life to be ridiculed in a thread (and at a time) when innumerable members of the most self-righteous group in Western society--left wing entertainers--are (finally) being exposed on a wide scale for being what many always were: a legion of the most immoral, abuse people in society. Men raping women, men raping men, men raping children, women molesting boys, men groping men, news media mouthpieces attacking victims for calling out this ingrained culture...anything goes (and you still see closed ranks unwilling to expose true monsters), yet Pence's beliefs are a problem?



#29
Tank

Tank

    Driver

  • Member
  • 35,046 posts
And I said I wouldn't Lyceum again...

On a more serious note, does anyone out there really believe that Hollywood wasn't rife with this kind of thing and has been almost since the beginning?

Are we thinking that Hollywood is somehow worse than the rest of the world? We see Hollywood, or politics as these playgrounds for behavior to make note of, but that's because by their very nature they are in the spotlight.
 
There are countless industries, or just regular walks of life where this behavior is sadly as common.
 

Pences solution is not practical or healthy. Being alone with a woman who isnt your wife, mother, or sister is not improper, its perfectly normal, because adults can recognize people of the opposite gender as colleagues and peers, not objects of sexual lust. If youre unwilling to be alone with a person of any other demographic other than your own, you have a serious issue.


If I recall, it was just about dining with a woman who is not his wife.  Which is hardly impractical.  I'm racking my brain to think of the last time I've had dinner alone with a woman that wasn't either a romantic interest or a relative and can't think of any that went beyond literally grabbing a bite when a coworker happened to be present (though I'll grant that I rarely eat out in the first place).  Going to dinner alone with someone of another sex is a fairly intimate.  And avoiding the appearance of impropriety is itself always a good habit to get into.


I have spent the vast majority of my life having most of my closest friends being female. My best friend is actually my ex-wife. We have lunch at least once a week. There is no sexual relationship with any of these women, nor is it inappropriate. This is possible because I am adult and capable of not automatically sexualizing every woman I see.

To say it is inappropriate smacks of insecurity. My girlfriend (whom I live with in sin for many years now, don't tell Pence) isn't bothered by this because she trusts me. Whenever I see somebody losing their mind over their S.O. having friendships with a member of the opposite sex there is always either a history of cheating, crazy insecurity, or both.

 

Just take a look at this thread.  The world would be a whole lot better if men shifted more towards erring on the side of propriety than the sewer of what the current culture calls for in men and that leads to whole cultures of sexual harassment where you dig deep and wonder how it got that bad.  I'm all for a little more quaintness in our views towards women.  Bring such notions back and celebrate them for goodness sake.  Teach it to young boys.  Because if they internalize that women are to be treated respectfully and marriage vows prized and held sacred, that's a damn good thing for both men and women.


OR, you teach young boys that woman are people, just like men, and that everyone should be treated with respect. To teach boys that all women must be avoided unless they are your mother or potential mate makes things worse. It creates the idea that women are only good for certain roles. That makes for having messed up views on women as they go off into the real world and may have to interact with women on occasion.

I get your point, that maybe a instilling more restraint into our courting rituals would make for less strife-- I don't totally disagree, but this sounds a little too much like a "make America great again" callback to the golden age where men wore hats and were gentleman-- and while there's little bits of truth there, that era was not so great for women in general.

If you think that sexual harassment, rape, and unequal rights for women wasn't WORSE back then, you're not the historian I thought you were.
 

At worst, Pence's behavior marks as quaint.

 

Moving past what appears to be your animosity toward anyone who is (apparently) deeply religious, Pence's method is no different than anyone who will not consciously place themselves in situations where there's a risk of temptation, whether the temptation is sex, alcohol, drugs, food, gambling--whatever. That is not an antiquated view, but common senses framed by a supportive belief.


Here's what you guys are missing about Pence... If somebody wants to run their life in a quaint or antiquated way, that's totally fine. If it works for him, or you, I may not agree with it, but that's certainly your right.

But Pence doesn't see it that way. Pence has made it clear if he had his way he'd legislate his point of view onto others. I know your side likes to take the Gay Re-education camp stuff and spin as leftist propaganda or fake news, or whatever we call it now, but if you look at his congressional voting record there's a pretty clear narrative.

Poe-- I know we've talked about this before. You will back a candidate that's close to your stance even if they say something ridiculous like ROUND UP THE GAYS! Your reasoning has been, that could never actually happen, so it's a not-issue.

As a liberal Star Trek utopist Hollywood douchebag I can't get past moral character. So, yeah, no Pence for me. The fact he believes certain things I find abhorant makes me not trust him, and question the way he runs his own life. Because character, beliefs, and actions go hand in hand.

 

Its rather odd for Pence's personal guide to life to be ridiculed in a thread (and at a time) when innumerable members of the most self-righteous group in Western society--left wing entertainers--are (finally) being exposed on a wide scale for being what many always were: a legion of the most immoral, abuse people in society. Men raping women, men raping men, men raping children, women molesting boys, men groping men, news media mouthpieces attacking victims for calling out this ingrained culture...anything goes (and you still see closed ranks unwilling to expose true monsters), yet Pence's beliefs are a problem?


Glenn Beck, is that you!?
 

Women love to pout. Just like kids. I find it funny that so many of them demonize men when they really just want to get ****ed hard.

Men can be pigs, no argument there, but I really think that the bulk of the complaints and accusations come from complicit women who feel like they got jipped on the final cut and want to bitch about it.

What's interesting about recent developments is that the high heeled, red nailed, fully manicured types are bonding with the fat lonely lesbians. They all feel left out.

The REAL women are those that find happiness their own way. They are the ones that helped vote Hillary out of the white house.


Okay. We made some peace. But, why do you have to be like this? This is an absolutely monstrous thing to say and you know it. Don't be a troll. Do better.
  • pavonis and Kyrian +1 this

#30
pavonis

pavonis

    Member

  • Member
  • 6,905 posts

 ...I'm all for a little more quaintness in our views towards women. ...

 

... Pence's beliefs are a problem?

 

Pence's beliefs are a problem because they're just the other side of the coin of Weinstein's (and his ilk). To both of these men, women are inherently inferior to men. Weinstein harassed and assaulted them for sex as a demonstration of his power, and Pence treats them as temptresses to be avoided. They're both motivated by their belief that women are primarily sexual objects rather than people. That kind of "quaintness" isn't healthy. If the Mike Pence Rule were applied to any other demographic, it wouldn't be "quaint" or "respectful". The difference between them is that Weinstein should be prosecuted and Pence should just be ridiculed and voted out. 

 

I'd held out some optimism that Poe and I could come to some kind of respectful understanding of each other, the way I did with other posters here before (Pong, James Madison, Carrie Mathison, for instance were all initially antagonistic interactions) since he's abrasive enough to polish my own positions and views on topics, which I've found helpful over the years. But Poe, you're just too presumptuous (what do you know about me and what I read?) and contemptuous of anyone who isn't you to be fun to interact with regularly. Too bad - you'd be useful for providing a contrasting voice if you didn't assume you were always right. You're likely stuck in your own echo chamber, too, but you apparently hate-watch and hate-read enough "liberal" media to believe yourself informed. 


  • Tank +1 this

#31
Ms. Spam

Ms. Spam

    MS.

  • Member
  • 17,884 posts

OMG! Ally Raisman! Like someone in USA gymnastics didn't know this was happening?

 

Tank, I posted some nonsense on your Facebook page but really sexual harassment is prevalent everywhere - you are correct good, sir. In schools it's bullying the gay guy in the locker room or texting pics of a girl around to teachers doing it with students.  I think it's maturity of the person who is being abused and weighing what is easier to do that makes it stay hidden.



#32
Poe Dameron

Poe Dameron

    Member

  • Member
  • 2,485 posts
Here's what you guys are missing about Pence... If somebody wants to run their life in a quaint or antiquated way, that's totally fine. If it works for him, or you, I may not agree with it, but that's certainly your right.

 

Good to see you back.

 

Well, that's the thing.  He wasn't trying to push it on anyone.  This is an obscure note in his biography.  Something that he does on his own and that, to my knowledge, he's never tried to tell anyone else they should be doing.  Or that it's wrong for you to continue to have a good relationship with your ex-wife.  It seems like other people are trying to tell him what to do in his own personal life.  And if he continues doing what he's been doing and living his happy life, he's insecure or, according to pavonis, deeply damaged and probably perverted.

 

(Note: I made and error earlier, it was Pence himself who told The Hill 15 years ago about his dining rule, not Karen Pence)

 

 

 

To say it is inappropriate smacks of insecurity.

 

What I said was avoiding the appearance of impropriety.  There's a difference there.  To broaden the concept, it's like a judge who chooses to recuse themself from a case because of a past business dealing with someone involved in the dispute.  Now by recusal, the judge doesn't admit that they are incapable of performing their duties and ruling with impartially.  It's done because no matter how scrupulous the judge is in his impartiality and professional they are in performing their duty, if they rule in favor of the person they have ties do, an outsider observer would look at such an arrangement with suspicion.

 

 

 

I get your point, that maybe a instilling more restraint into our courting rituals would make for less strife-- I don't totally disagree, but this sounds a little too much like a "make America great again" callback to the golden age where men wore hats and were gentleman-- and while there's little bits of truth there, that era was not so great for women in general.

 

I thought about including a section on that, but didn't.  Obviously my mistake.

 

You can take the good from something and leave the bad.  Leave in the proper behavior aspects and toss out the whole women as property notion.  Embrace the romantic notions while explicitly denouncing the hypocritical elements.  In time, actions become character.

 

Part of the problem is that young men grow up with “locker room talk” and then no philosophy really replaces it in maturity aside from, again, getting away with what human resources will let you.  Frankly, I can’t even stand to be around most groups of men when women aren’t around and the walls of civility drop.

 

 

 

OR, you teach young boys that woman are people, just like men, and that everyone should be treated with respect.

 

That’s good in and of itself, but it doesn’t really do much to prepare a person for the reality of interpersonal relationships with someone that you might develop a mutual attraction with.  Once again, we’re messy, often irrational beings.

 

And it’s not like you can’t develop inappropriate feelings for someone you respect.

 

 

 

To teach boys that all women must be avoided unless they are your mother or potential mate makes things worse. It creates the idea that women are only good for certain roles. That makes for having messed up views on women as they go off into the real world and may have to interact with women on occasion.

 

Boundaries isn’t the same as avoidance.  I keep bringing this up, but how is it any different than following human resources guidelines?  Why is it so bad to set standards for yourself without being told you have to do it?

 

Furthermore, I don’t see how it creates such an idea that women are only good for certain roles.  It’s simply acknowledging the reality of that that extra component that has a habit of overwriting everything else.

 

 

 

There are countless industries, or just regular walks of life where this behavior is sadly as common.

 

I think you're underplaying that.  How many industries are there where gorgeous and broke young women flock in droves and climb over each other's backs in desperation to get work?  Or where money and power is concentrated on certain personalities where deep personality flaws are tolerated as an artist's quirk?

 

 

 

Poe-- I know we've talked about this before. You will back a candidate that's close to your stance even if they say something ridiculous like ROUND UP THE GAYS! Your reasoning has been, that could never actually happen, so it's a not-issue.

 

I know I’ve waved off policies I don’t like before as unlikely.  Though I don’t recall the context at the moment.  But I don’t recall supporting any politician that called for anything remotely that reprehensible.

 

 

 

I'd held out some optimism that Poe and I could come to some kind of respectful understanding of each other

 

 

 

Pence's beliefs are a problem because they're just the other side of the coin of Weinstein's (and his ilk). To both of these men, women are inherently inferior to men. Weinstein harassed and assaulted them for sex as a demonstration of his power, and Pence treats them as temptresses to be avoided.

 

Assigning extreme and improbable motives onto a political enemy over an innocuous decision over his personal conduct.

 

 

 

I'd held out some optimism that Poe and I could come to some kind of respectful understanding of each other

 

You have literally stated that you don’t respect me.

 

 

 

OMG! Ally Raisman!

 

It wouldn’t surprise me if we find in time that the entirety of our national women’s gymnastics team was abused.



#33
Tank

Tank

    Driver

  • Member
  • 35,046 posts

Good to see you back.


You made a good point about taking breaks... though it just takes one terrible post from Tex to spike my blood pressure all over again.
 

Well, that's the thing.  He wasn't trying to push it on anyone.  This is an obscure note in his biography.  Something that he does on his own and that, to my knowledge, he's never tried to tell anyone else they should be doing.  Or that it's wrong for you to continue to have a good relationship with your ex-wife.  It seems like other people are trying to tell him what to do in his own personal life.  And if he continues doing what he's been doing and living his happy life, he's insecure or, according to pavonis, deeply damaged and probably perverted.

 
Here's a good summation of how he feels about relationships with women.
https://www.newyorke...omen-from-power

While I agree with you in that he can live his life how he wants to-- it's a completely impractical way to run his own office. It's not how he treats his wife, it's how this stance means he treats every other woman.

I'm positing that if you live your life this way, it can't not effect the way you legislate. When you look at his voting record, and consider that he puts his faith above his government, how can that not effect his feeling about laws on the matter?
 
 

To say it is inappropriate smacks of insecurity.

 
What I said was avoiding the appearance of impropriety.  There's a difference there.  To broaden the concept, it's like a judge who chooses to recuse themself from a case because of a past business dealing with someone involved in the dispute.  Now by recusal, the judge doesn't admit that they are incapable of performing their duties and ruling with impartially.  It's done because no matter how scrupulous the judge is in his impartiality and professional they are in performing their duty, if they rule in favor of the person they have ties do, an outsider observer would look at such an arrangement with suspicion.


Sorry-- not following. How does that apply to how he interacts with women?
 
 

I get your point, that maybe a instilling more restraint into our courting rituals would make for less strife-- I don't totally disagree, but this sounds a little too much like a "make America great again" callback to the golden age where men wore hats and were gentleman-- and while there's little bits of truth there, that era was not so great for women in general.

 
I thought about including a section on that, but didn't.  Obviously my mistake.
 
You can take the good from something and leave the bad.  Leave in the proper behavior aspects and toss out the whole women as property notion.  Embrace the romantic notions while explicitly denouncing the hypocritical elements.  In time, actions become character.

Part of the problem is that young men grow up with locker room talk and then no philosophy really replaces it in maturity aside from, again, getting away with what human resources will let you.  Frankly, I cant even stand to be around most groups of men when women arent around and the walls of civility drop.


I can get behind that-- but you're making big cultural generalizations. I know a lot of people raising their sons to respect women myself included. It's not just the teaching of future generations though, it's also about dismantling the power structures that have allowed said behavior to prevail this long.
 

OR, you teach young boys that woman are people, just like men, and that everyone should be treated with respect.

 
Thats good in and of itself, but it doesnt really do much to prepare a person for the reality of interpersonal relationships with someone that you might develop a mutual attraction with.  Once again, were messy, often irrational beings.
 
And its not like you cant develop inappropriate feelings for someone you respect.


But that's life. Getting your heart broken, being confused, being in love-- that's part of growing. And a fair amount of people are able to navigate that without harassing or raping women. It's not that hard to not rape.
 

To teach boys that all women must be avoided unless they are your mother or potential mate makes things worse. It creates the idea that women are only good for certain roles. That makes for having messed up views on women as they go off into the real world and may have to interact with women on occasion.

 
Boundaries isnt the same as avoidance.


We were using Pence as a benchmark. And I think his boundaries are outdated and unrealistic. Again-- not a problem for a dude in his life, but a problem for one of our heads of state.

I keep bringing this up, but how is it any different than following human resources guidelines?  Why is it so bad to set standards for yourself without being told you have to do it?

 
There's nothing wrong with that approach.

Furthermore, I dont see how it creates such an idea that women are only good for certain roles.  Its simply acknowledging the reality of that that extra component that has a habit of overwriting everything else.


Again-- talking about the Pence of it all. When I said this, I was referring specifically to the whole female alone meals only with wife thing.
 

There are countless industries, or just regular walks of life where this behavior is sadly as common.

 
I think you're underplaying that.  How many industries are there where gorgeous and broke young women flock in droves and climb over each other's backs in desperation to get work?  Or where money and power is concentrated on certain personalities where deep personality flaws are tolerated as an artist's quirk?


This is a reaaaaaaally sketchy statement.

The first half implies woman are to blame. This is part of the problem with rape culture, this idea that women set themselves up and therefor deserve it. That's a fallacy. Call the woman that does that a tease, call her manipulative, but that doesn't mean she deserves to be raped.

Also, that particular set up is a very small percentage of the problem we're talking about. Look at Weinstein. The dude looks like a cat litter box in human form. No one is throwing themself at him. There are so many reports of him forcing himself or blackmailing women into sex.

And sure, Hollywood and Politics have their backwards celebrity versions of it-- but ANY industry where men are in power has this problem. It happens in finance, it happens in advertising, it even happens in comics if you read today's news.

This isn't a Hollywood problem, it's a men abusing power problem.
 
 
 

Poe-- I know we've talked about this before. You will back a candidate that's close to your stance even if they say something ridiculous like ROUND UP THE GAYS! Your reasoning has been, that could never actually happen, so it's a not-issue.

 
I know Ive waved off policies I dont like before as unlikely.  Though I dont recall the context at the moment.  But I dont recall supporting any politician that called for anything remotely that reprehensible.


Here's a rundown on Pence's voting habits when it comes to gays:
http://time.com/4406...igious-freedom/

#34
Poe Dameron

Poe Dameron

    Member

  • Member
  • 2,485 posts
The first half implies woman are to blame.

 

Won't unpack the whole post tonight, but a quick reply to this.

 

Not at all my intention.  It's just a perfect place for predators.  Many beautiful women.  Few available positions.  Speaking up brings with it fear of not only losing a job, but labeling you as troublesome to work with.

 

Anywhere you have that type of environment, you're going to draw sketchy people.



#35
Odine

Odine

    Member

  • Supporters
  • 2,454 posts
The fashion industry is pretty deplorable for that. Particularly the post-production elements: modelling, marketing and advertising are rife with scumbags abusing their power and taking advantage of young men and women.

Then there is the music industry....

Edited by Odine, 13 November 2017 - 04:48 AM.


#36
Tank

Tank

    Driver

  • Member
  • 35,046 posts

The first half implies woman are to blame.

 
Won't unpack the whole post tonight, but a quick reply to this.
 
Not at all my intention.  It's just a perfect place for predators.  Many beautiful women.  Few available positions.  Speaking up brings with it fear of not only losing a job, but labeling you as troublesome to work with.
 
Anywhere you have that type of environment, you're going to draw sketchy people.


I was hoping, and assumed, that's what you meant, so good to hear. After Tex's comment though I was ready to fight that fight.

#37
RamonAtila

RamonAtila

    Member

  • Members
  • 885 posts

Men can be pigs, no argument there, but I really think that the bulk of the complaints and accusations come from complicit women who feel like they got jipped on the final cut and want to bitch about it.


It's a relief in this day when a real man says his piece, but this paragraph was clearly written by a man. Go back and read how redundant this line is.

#38
RamonAtila

RamonAtila

    Member

  • Members
  • 885 posts

I have spent the vast majority of my life having most of my closest friends being female. My best friend is actually my ex-wife. We have lunch at least once a week. There is no sexual relationship with any of these women, nor is it inappropriate. This is possible because I am adult and capable of not automatically sexualizing every woman I see.

To say it is inappropriate smacks of insecurity. My girlfriend (whom I live with in sin for many years now, don't tell Pence) isn't bothered by this because she trusts me.


I really don't wanna get into your personal life. But, c'maaaan. Are you not an exception to the rule? You must, like, share a child with this person or prior business interests or else c'maaaaan that IS inherently inappropriate.

#39
RamonAtila

RamonAtila

    Member

  • Members
  • 885 posts

 

There are countless industries, or just regular walks of life where this behavior is sadly as common.

 
I think you're underplaying that.  How many industries are there where gorgeous and broke young women flock in droves and climb over each other's backs in desperation to get work?  Or where money and power is concentrated on certain personalities where deep personality flaws are tolerated as an artist's quirk?
This is a reaaaaaaally sketchy statement.

The first half implies woman are to blame. This is part of the problem with rape culture, this idea that women set themselves up and therefor deserve it. That's a fallacy. Call the woman that does that a tease, call her manipulative, but that doesn't mean she deserves to be raped.

Also, that particular set up is a very small percentage of the problem we're talking about. Look at Weinstein. The dude looks like a cat litter box in human form. No one is throwing themself at him. There are so many reports of him forcing himself or blackmailing women into sex.

And sure, Hollywood and Politics have their backwards celebrity versions of it-- but ANY industry where men are in power has this problem. It happens in finance, it happens in advertising, it even happens in comics if you read today's news.

]

I don't get it. Who's to blame? Men? These poor women need to be empathized with because that's our responsibility as men who run the world?! Insane! I call reverse sexism!

#40
Tank

Tank

    Driver

  • Member
  • 35,046 posts

I have spent the vast majority of my life having most of my closest friends being female. My best friend is actually my ex-wife. We have lunch at least once a week. There is no sexual relationship with any of these women, nor is it inappropriate. This is possible because I am adult and capable of not automatically sexualizing every woman I see.

To say it is inappropriate smacks of insecurity. My girlfriend (whom I live with in sin for many years now, don't tell Pence) isn't bothered by this because she trusts me.


I really don't wanna get into your personal life. But, c'maaaan. Are you not an exception to the rule? You must, like, share a child with this person or prior business interests or else c'maaaaan that IS inherently inappropriate.


Why is it inappropriate? If you can only see women as family or potential sexual mates, that's a deficiency in you. If you see them as people you can have friendships with them as easily as males.
 
 

There are countless industries, or just regular walks of life where this behavior is sadly as common.

 
I think you're underplaying that.  How many industries are there where gorgeous and broke young women flock in droves and climb over each other's backs in desperation to get work?  Or where money and power is concentrated on certain personalities where deep personality flaws are tolerated as an artist's quirk?

This is a reaaaaaaally sketchy statement.

The first half implies woman are to blame. This is part of the problem with rape culture, this idea that women set themselves up and therefor deserve it. That's a fallacy. Call the woman that does that a tease, call her manipulative, but that doesn't mean she deserves to be raped.

Also, that particular set up is a very small percentage of the problem we're talking about. Look at Weinstein. The dude looks like a cat litter box in human form. No one is throwing themself at him. There are so many reports of him forcing himself or blackmailing women into sex.

And sure, Hollywood and Politics have their backwards celebrity versions of it-- but ANY industry where men are in power has this problem. It happens in finance, it happens in advertising, it even happens in comics if you read today's news.

]


I don't get it. Who's to blame? Men? These poor women need to be empathized with because that's our responsibility as men who run the world?! Insane! I call reverse sexism!


Who's to blame? People in power who abuse their position to force those under them to do what they want, or take advantage of them. 90% of the time, it is men.
  • pavonis +1 this

#41
RamonAtila

RamonAtila

    Member

  • Members
  • 885 posts
90% of the time. Wow-ee. I don't even know what angle to come at this from. It is reverse sexism.

(BTW, my use of the term 'reverse sexism' can be construed two way here:

1- attacking a whole gender for being sexist, which is sexism in itself
2-victimizing a gender, which is not empowering them at all, which makes them inferior because they need your help, which is sexism in itself

You're not doing women any favors by:

-negating all the powerful matriarchs that have existed in history, including the evil ones. Women can be evil too. They have the power and it's more than 10%. You're not giving them enough credit.
-implying that men are responsible for how women feel about themselves in the competitive working world of today. They're not strong enough to be the ones hurting themselves? They're chickens on a farm or something? No, they are empowered people like men. Men are competitive with men, women are competitive with women, men and women are competitive with eachother.
-removing the idea that they are sexual objects altogether. Just kill the romance why don't you. And Women have sexual power. Women can sexually abuse men too, and they do.
-this one is hard for me to say, but in this day and age women should know better. If they choose to let themselves be abused for the sake of their career, that's a moral weakness on their part. they sold out, they didn't denounce. I need to elaborate cause I know how bad it sounds. Imagine we're talking about drug abuse and not sexual abuse. if a baseball coach is pumping his players with steroids and they don't denounce, they are not victims they are accomplices

#42
RamonAtila

RamonAtila

    Member

  • Members
  • 885 posts
These are all the ways I see us being abused and confined to gender stereotypes. I will attack the left wing and the right wing for life. It's just who I am.

A-as a woman being bombarded with body shaming thru advertising, media, etc, being told they need to be the step ford wife, dumb cheerleader, etc,
B-as a woman being pressured to be a feminist, demonized if they want to identify as A, not acknowledging the housewife or supermodel as a feminist
C-as a lesbian being told u are unnatural
D-as a lesbian being given constant reassurance that you're ok to be you, and discouraging you from believing you can take a joke
E-as a woman confused about their sexual identity not being allowed to draw their own conclusion to if they're gay or straight
F-as a woman being blamed for rape because you had it coming
G-as a woman being allowed to Demonize all men because you were raped by one or some
H-as a woman being suppressed from talking about these issues
I-as a woman being demonized for not caring about these issues
J-as a woman being instructed to love men despite all
K-as a woman being instructed to hate men despite all
L- as a male, being body-shamed for being too fat, too skinny, being labeled as an inferior male if you're not pumped, discouraging intellectualism in males
M-as a male, being shamed for being a macho, jock etc. being told you're an obsolete Neanderthal, stereotyping a macho-type male as not being intellectual, compassionate, etc
O-like C, but for gay males
P-like D, but for gay males
Q-like E, but for males
R-as a male not being taken seriously as a rape victim because they are male, blaming them
S-like G, but for males sexually abused by women
T- like H, I, J, K, but for males
U- as any gender, being told your gender or any other gender is responsible for how you feel about your gender or any other gender, or gender in general

#43
Tank

Tank

    Driver

  • Member
  • 35,046 posts
If you think women sexually harass men as much as the reverse you live in a fantasy world.
  • monkeygirl +1 this

#44
RamonAtila

RamonAtila

    Member

  • Members
  • 885 posts
I really really must. And I can't help it, I've been an artist and I've been your stereotypical male laborer, and we're not whistling at women a tenth as much as artists say we are.

Also I count sexual imagery, sexual verbal abuse as sexual abuse. Call me sexist but women use these psychological channels more than men because men have the physical abuse cornered. But words and images affect your brain, your brain programs your body. That's physical, sorry.

And it goes back to the beginning of time. Ironically it's a chauvinist modern era we live in that covers up these powerful female abusers of antiquity.

#45
Tank

Tank

    Driver

  • Member
  • 35,046 posts
Good lord.

Educate yourself one iota outside of your myopic experience. You really think that all of the allegations coming out now being leveled almost exclusively at men doesnt mean something.

Look at the numbers of convicted rape offenders male vs female. Look at sexual harassment cases. Men are mostly to blame because men hold most of the power.

You are seriously selling that this is actually a matriarchy and that women are conspiring to hide this fact and their own harassment?

Write that movie. MRA douchebags will flock to it.
  • Ms. Spam +1 this

#46
RamonAtila

RamonAtila

    Member

  • Members
  • 885 posts
No you just veer completely away from what I say all the time and put words in my mouth so that's why I've given up arguing you with the past.

I will say though with adamance that I am not a chauvinist. I hate for example your patriarchal ways of just getting mad and flipping over the table and getting all mad and ignorant and lose focus of the debate as soon as I say something you don't agree with or understand. It's very brutish and masculine and dumb.

#47
Brando

Brando

    83% Muppet

  • Admin
  • 19,490 posts
Dude, nobody in the world has ever understood anything you've said.
  • Tank, pavonis and Darth Krawlie +1 this

#48
Tank

Tank

    Driver

  • Member
  • 35,046 posts

No you just veer completely away from what I say all the time and put words in my mouth so that's why I've given up arguing you with the past.

I will say though with adamance that I am not a chauvinist. I hate for example your patriarchal ways of just getting mad and flipping over the table and getting all mad and ignorant and lose focus of the debate as soon as I say something you don't agree with or understand. It's very brutish and masculine and dumb.


Whose mad? You said something I disagree with, I responded. Isn't that how this works? You're always happy to come at me until I don't back down, then you cry that I'm some aggro bully.

If you're going to make ridiculous claims, back them up. That's all I am saying.

Show me some statistics that back up what you're saying and I;'ll listen. Right now, all the evidence is contrary to what you say.
  • pavonis +1 this

#49
RamonAtila

RamonAtila

    Member

  • Members
  • 885 posts
By that logic, in a pre-outing of sex offenders like Cosby, Weinstein, etc... Just because no one ever came forward that would mean it didn't technically happen. But it did, it just took these women a long time to come forward.

What if the female version of abuse is so strong, it would take a hell of a long time for any man to come forward because of the extreme fear of being known as that guy that didn't have sex with his boss, teacher, wtv but instead was a complete god knows what who pressed charges? Don't you wanna punch this guy in the face already? and it's just a hypothetical situation I'm bringing up here! That's how powerful female abuse can be as well! Where as a man you are also utterly shamed mostly even by other men for even thinking you're allowed to feel violated.

I'm saying it's equal. Maybe these violent attacks ate mostly caused by men, but how would you know? Some pie chart from the last thirty years doesn't paint the whole picture of male/female interaction in all history. What if grown women have a tendency to molest young boys, or other girls young and old? And thus get away with it more because the microscope is pointed elsewhere, in the obvious dark alleys and parking garages women dread being accosted by men in?

I never said we live in a matriarchal world where women are covering up their abuse. I believe it's an equal world with abusive matriarchs as well as abusive patriarchs. You probably misunderstood that line. I was hinting that maybe a history of male victims is being covered up by chauvinist males themselves. Now that would be hella ironic and I believe its the truth.

Another thing, how do you know if there weren't more female producers in Hollywood there wouldn't be just as many female sex offenders?

#50
RamonAtila

RamonAtila

    Member

  • Members
  • 885 posts

Show me some statistics that back up what you're saying and I;'ll listen. Right now, all the evidence is contrary to what you say.


Stats mean ****. Stats taken in the winter will show that the world is generally cold. Stats taken in the summer will show that the world is generally hot.

You never lived in Sumeria, Ancient Greece, etc...you only know their ecstasies.



Reply to this topic