Jump to content

Sexual Harassment


Ms. Spam
 Share

Recommended Posts

Well it's definitely about power. I was groped once in a disgusting way but it had no relevance because she had no power. Some gal who's about 5 feet tall and 5 feet wide slapped my chest and started rubbing it in front of all my coworkers. She even moaned like she was getting off on it. Then we all laughed. There was no sexual harassment because I didn't feel threatened by it.

 

So if it's really about power, then you have to question the motivations of the victims. Are they making a statement about sexual abuse, or are they whining about being unsatisfied with their own lives?

 

I recently read that Ron Jeremy is being accused of sexual assault. By female porn stars. He appropriately laughed it off. These gals clearly made a bad career choice and are upset about it.

 

The point that I was trying (and failed) to make earlier is that women often portray themselves as sexual objects and then get mad when they are treated like sexual objects. They want attention until they get the wrong kind of attention. The fault, for many, is their own and it's built on the frustration they have for not getting what they thought they would get by abandoning their morals and relying solely on their overrated sexuality.

What I'd like to know is, how much of sexual harassment and/or rape do you think fits into this category? Cause this is the go-to conservative victim-blaming stance on anyone ever raped ever. It's problematic because it basically says all women bring it on themselves.

 

Does this happen? Absolutely.

 

Is it the vast majority? Not even close. The fact you continue to harp on it tells me you do think it is the majority of cases-- in which case I will fight you.

 

Even if it is though-- even if a woman is a total stripper whore who takes a man home to rob him blind, if at some point she says-- hey no, this is my line I don't want to be raped.

 

Guess what-- he's still at fault. There's no reason or situation where rape is suddenly okay.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok. I think people do a massive disservice to actual victims by giving credence to whiners. Men definitely abuse their status to exploit women for sex and that is horrible. On the flip side, however, you have opportunists who want to capitalize on a bad night with the wrong dude.

 

I'll use Ben Roethlesburger as an example. The guy went int to a bathroom with a strarstuck fan, said fan was unsatisfird with the experience, and then made a big stink about it until it was obvious that there was no wrongdoing whatsoever in the courts.

 

Think about the sheer nature of sex. Any woman who allows a man to penetrate them with part of their body is inherently complicit. Nothing new here. We're all here because of it.

 

What it comes down to is how satisfied both parties are. In recent cases, yes, I do see a lot of whining. They thought that giving up the ***** would lead to better things( be it love, money, or fame), and then get pissed when things didn't go according to plan.

 

I'm of the belief that we shouldn't treat women like children. Take that, feminists. Men that ignore that are not only cucks, they are ignoring the biology of men and women.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Having sat back and watched this all unfold for a while now, what I'm convinced is going to happen is that any good that could have come of this whole Weinstein / Me too thing will end up being lost down the 21st century rabbit holes of extreme partisanship and identity politics. Both sides of the spectrum are guilty of it.

 

Despite this being a thing of the women's movement, the narrative has been seized upon by the conservatives, who have been successful in making this about the moral hypocrisy of liberal Hollywood, and of the failure of the sexual revolution more generally. Think of it as the political spectrum flip-side of the child sex abuse scandals in the Catholic church or the evangelical ministers and "family values" politicians who end up being outed for visiting prostitutes, committing adultery, behaving lewdly towards staffers (and all of this is still going on by the way, see for instance Roy Moore or this guy). It will be hard, I think, to take Hollywood pontificating on social issues seriously for a long, long time now, and as far as I'm concerned, that's just as well.

 

What of the race, religion, or migrant status of the abuser, or in some cases, class of abusers? Feminist progressives like to be quite insistent that we all "listen and believe" when women accuse rich, white men of sexual misconduct. And they're probably right, we should. Even when it's a rich black man, Bill Cosby for instance, for the most part that attitude prevailed. But what of the instances when it turned out that migrant rape gangs were active in parts of Europe, sometimes for years on end, and acted with relative impunity because the police were afraid to act for fear of coming across as racist or anti-immigrant? The infamous Rotherham affair in Britain being the most notorious, but by no means the only example. Where was the "listen and believe" crowd then? Or is this only a problem when white, English speaking college boys do it?

 

It certainly isn't a problem when males are on the receiving end, especially from female perpetrators. If instances of that are brought to light, it's "whiny men making it about themselves" or whatever line of internet feminist copypasta happens to be most expedient and will garner the most likes from the rest of the hive mind once posted. I saw the whole me too hashtag descend into uncountable derails and flame wars over precisely this. Well, when you silence certain categories of victims, however small a portion of the total they may happen to be - and make no mistake, female on male sexual harassment and assault is vastly the exception rather than the rule, though it probably happens more often than we'd like to think - then that casts suspicion over the entire project. Do we really care about the victims of sexual misconduct no matter who, or do we only care when we can weaponize the issue for use against non-prefered demographics and identities?

 

Not that conservatives are innocent of it, however. Look at Bill O'Reilly, Fox News and so on, to say nothing of Donald Trump's female genitalia grabbing habit. But they're demonstrating how easy it is to deflect criticism via good old fashioned whataboutery - what about Bubba Bill when he was in the oval office? Compound that with legions of unreasoning partisans who will just chime in support for "their guys" regardless of the circumstances. How long is it going to be before the progressives do again what they did vis-a-vis the tea party Paleocons: retaliate with their own version of the same thing: the SJWs. Don't listen to reason, deny everything, hive up, care only for identity and partisanship and double down on the shrill belligerent commentary whenever challenged or argued with. Watch the normie's eyes start to roll whenever the allegations come out from here on in. Another crucial issue that doesn't get a fair hearing due to rampant partisanship and identity politics.

 

And all of this says nothing about how far back we go? How serious does the offense have to be? I think we can all agree that in Weinstein's case, we had multiple instance of egregious abuses of power taking place over a long time span, and I think it's fairly obvious that the guy belongs behind bars where hopefully he'll be on the receiving end of what he's been doling out over the years. Because that's what he deserves. But what about some instance where, say, a guy at a party thirty years ago gets a little too fresh and puts his arm around a woman who did not fill out consent forms in triplicate and this gets leaked to the press by either the woman in question, who smells the potential for an out-of-court settlement, or by a jilted and vindictive ex-lover, or by a political or business rival of some kind? Once it becomes apparent that allegations will be believed without question, because that's apparently the politically correct thing to do, don't be at all surprised when abuses like this start happening. And yelling "misogyny" won't make these abuses go away, no matter how many shrill Twitter fem-bots manage to get together to and shout it in unison. And since this is a trending issue right now, the story gets snatched up and goes viral, quite possibly because it's a clear example of "political correctness gone mad" or whatever and that's what gets clicks and therefore advertisers.

 

Now nobody's talking about actual prosecution just yet as far as I know, but there are reasons why due process is a good idea and why the court of public opinion, especially in an era of rank partisanship and identity politics, might not be the best place to resolve these issues. Again, nobody's being incarcerated, but careers are being ruined. Often justifiably, but it will take just one instance of unjustifiably - a willfully fabricated or frivolous allegation or an allegation made with some kind of ulterior motive, and this whole me too movement will be done. How long is it going to be before one or more of the accused lawyers up and a defamation of character suit is launched? What if this suit is successful? It will then become tarred with the image of a manic castrating sexual witch hunt that its detractors - which you'll be surprised to know that I'm not necessarily one of - are suggesting it is.

 

That certainly won't stop the diehard feminist progressives, who are absolutely certain that false or frivolous allegations can be proven to absolutely never occur if just enough of them shout loud enough and hurl enough grade school insults at anyone who dares argue with them. Deter your opposition from arguing, and hooray! You win! That's the SJW way! And the way of their NRx shadows, it should be observed. Hey, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em, right? But thinking, reasonable people will be more inclined to pass on them all, and even the legitimate issues they raise, as an eventual result.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This article is exactly what I'm talking about.

What drives the court of public opinion here? The natural human disgust at sexual assault, which is felt most by people of compassion. The natural rage of former victims, which is felt most by women, and the natural guilt about it of men, which is felt most by decent, caring men. And then there’s the reaction against the traditional discrediting of accusers: an insistence on believing them that is found most among liberals
So look how a fake allegation against a Dem, especially a Dem who passionately defends sexual assault victims, is a win for the right wing. Liberals themselves will be inclined to believe it, driven by their own morality. Any liberal who doubts it will be attacked by other liberals (amply helped by the Trumpcult and the bots) as a hypocrite or rape apologist. Liberals will be emotionally crushed by disillusionment to see one of their champions found guilty (before he’s actually been found guilty), adding to their cynicism about powerful men in general.
However it gets even bigger and more evil than that. They cannot lose even if their plot is exposed and the accuser, or, better still, multiple accusers, are discredited.
Why? Because, in far too many people's’ minds, that discredits ALL accusers.

The thing is, this vast right wing conspiracy 2.0 doesn't even have to be true. The mere putting it on the table casts all kinds of shadows of doubt on the sincerity of the entire enterprise. And while progressives will like to cast themselves as the victims here, they have actually set themselves up for it. Just like they quite consistently have over the last several years now. "Listen and believe" and just dispense with investigative procedure and jump right into trial by self righteous twitter mob. The very incarnation of Dunning-Kruger. What could go wrong? Good luck trying to tell them that, though.

 

Like I say, things like preference for due process over the "court" of public opinion exist for a reason, and the reason is not to uphold the patriarchy. Liberals abandoned liberal principles, and will in the long run be the ones to pay the price for it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So you don't condone rape, but any woman who "allows" herself to be penetrated is complicit?

Trust me mommy and daddy will listen to your bullshit only because they have to. Congrats. Hope you're happy knowing you're a rape baby.

 

Is that enough attention for you? No? Here's some ice cream.

 

P ussy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah that seems to be the stock approach. Just admit it and apologize, much like Louis CK did, and hope for the best.

 

Meanwhile Louis CK is forcing women to watch him masturbate to Weinstein raping women while Kevin Spacey goes after teenage boys and Ben Affleck says to himself "I'm good with all of this. Just keep paying me me millions. The liberal gulit won't kick in till around 2017 or so. No one will find out, right? Right???"

Uh, no. That is not the stock approach. I think Bill Clinton's was the stock approach. Deny deny deny. When they tried to impeach him nothing came of it and him and Hillary had to spend some money on lawyers but got to go on doing things. It's basically enabled Trump to continue on as well. When the grab 'em by the ***** comments came out just before the election, Trump got to go on to be president. The floodgates are opening now because non-disclosure agreements be damned some woman would rather pay the contractual breakage fee like in Weinstein's case and tell on him because people are angry.

 

The weirdest part is Moore. It's different in the South. If you have your parents permission you can marry at 16 in Alabama - Jerry Lewis! So most of Moore's overtures in his early 30s were looked at as quirky man doing weirdo things HAHA. Now though the climate's changing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Bill Clinton's was the stock approach. Deny deny deny.

 

I have noticed a few Democrats are finally starting to rethink whether Clinton's rampant sexual misbehavior. Of course it's safely a full generation later and the motive for the original hypocrisy has fallen away.

 

 

 

If you have your parents permission you can marry at 16 in Alabama - Jerry Lewis!

 

Try 13 years old on that one. And Jerry Lee Lewis honest to goodness didn't realize it would be such a scandal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Love is love, baby.

 

When I managed Taco Bell I had an employee who spent 5 years in jail for statutory rape because he was 21 and his girlfriend was 14 and they were caught in a car in a public place. Kinda sucked for him. He was smart but all he could get was a shitty job working in a Taco Bell after he got of jail and his ex jail bait girlfriend moved on and married and had kids.

 

I'm mixed on this. While I'm labeled a liberal communist person I was not as outraged by either Donald Trump's grab 'em comments nor Frankens charade in the USO. I was even kinda miffed that of all the things to impeach Clinton for they went after him for Monica Lewinski. I have to crack down on kids kissing in the halls and hand out PDA slips in school. For me, I respect a woman who comes out and says flatly unequivocally to fuck off and moves on instead of a meek response. But that's a personal thing for me. I hate weaker people who like being the victim. So I need a politically correct environment. So I don't have to think is this appropriate and why the hell didn't she flip him off and kick him in the nuts or mace his face?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

So you don't condone rape, but any woman who "allows" herself to be penetrated is complicit?

Trust me mommy and daddy will listen to your bull**** only because they have to. Congrats. Hope you're happy knowing you're a rape baby.

 

Is that enough attention for you? No? Here's some ice cream.

 

P ussy.

 

what the actual fuck

 

what is wrong with you?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Love is love, baby.

 

When I managed Taco Bell I had an employee who spent 5 years in jail for statutory rape because he was 21 and his girlfriend was 14 and they were caught in a car in a public place. Kinda sucked for him. He was smart but all he could get was a ****ty job working in a Taco Bell after he got of jail and his ex jail bait girlfriend moved on and married and had kids.

 

I'm mixed on this. While I'm labeled a liberal communist person I was not as outraged by either Donald Trump's grab 'em comments nor Frankens charade in the USO. I was even kinda miffed that of all the things to impeach Clinton for they went after him for Monica Lewinski. I have to crack down on kids kissing in the halls and hand out PDA slips in school. For me, I respect a woman who comes out and says flatly unequivocally to **** off and moves on instead of a meek response. But that's a personal thing for me. I hate weaker people who like being the victim. So I need a politically correct environment. So I don't have to think is this appropriate and why the hell didn't she flip him off and kick him in the nuts or mace his face?

Thing is; what response would be appropriate to you? WHO CARES WHY. She didn't. That should not give him a green light. I assume it's because she didn't know what to do at the time. Many of my GFs who have had 'me, too' things happen say that-they were just taken back or shocked when it happened. Everybody reacts differently and in a different time.

That said, what Franken did is light years away from what Moore's been accused of. I see what Franken did as a clumsy mis-step, but in this climate, let's DO talk about it. And we did! She had her say, he had a chance to react and he did so in exemplary fashion, IMHO. He apologized sincerely, she accepted. Really should be the end of the story, so why is anyone debating pictures of her at this point? They're irrelevant anyway! It really shouldn't be tough to sort these things out. Moore is accused of hitting on a minor. That's illegal and creepy and that he was in politics at the time makes it also very problematic. Franken is accused of being a sloppy kisser, writing a bit into a sketch that GOT him that kiss and taking a disturbing pic with consent. They were each adults and performers. He wasn't in politics at the time. I'd say now that there are multiple Moore accusers, that Moore should be investigated. The timing IS suspicious so it should be done quickly. But honestly, Comey tanked Clinton's chances of office in much the same manner that's happening to Moore-accusations that cannot be rectified before the election takes place-so if it didn't happen in a Presidential election, what chance does it have of happening for a Senate race. I feel calls for Moore to step down are appropriate but not Franken. His accuser didn't ask for it and SHE has forgiven him. IMO, nobody else has a right to be still offended on her behalf.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I really hate to say it, but I've kind of stopped paying attention to it at this point.

Once political players saw that they could weaponize the social movement of these accusations, the meaningfulness of them has kind of been swept away. I've seen more than enough of my share here in this embarrassing state. It's all just become ammunition in the minds of many and nothing more.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Once political players saw that they could weaponize the social movement of these accusations, the meaningfulness of them has kind of been swept away.

 

I don't think we're there yet. We will be, but inappropriate behavior among men really is a widespread problem. So far, most of the accusations have credibility.

 

Or maybe I'm just comparing it to racism in my head. That charge, which was pretty much the worst thing you could accuse someone of being not long ago, has pretty much lost all meaning it gets thrown around so much even as racism itself has actually become more frequent.

 

 

 

When I managed Taco Bell I had an employee who spent 5 years in jail for statutory rape because he was 21 and his girlfriend was 14 and they were caught in a car in a public place. Kinda sucked for him. He was smart but all he could get was a ****ty job working in a Taco Bell after he got of jail and his ex jail bait girlfriend moved on and married and had kids.

 

Can't say I have much sympathy. I've worked with a lot of 12-14 year old girls, it was probably my favorite age group for the girls, and not a one of them would I consider even remotely ready for an adult relationship.

 

I'm not sure how you could expect her to wait for him. She probably grew up and had no interest in the scuzzy guy who showed interest in her when she was still basically a child.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My only advice to him is ask to see valid id and learn what a fake id looks like. The judge was lenient with him. Also don't have sex in a public place where cops might come around. No matter how kinky it is.

 

Hell I was harassed at a showing of Revenge of the Sith but I turned into a really good story and moved on. I'm hoping the guy never crossed a line besides masturbating during a movie showing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

yup. met in some bar and she had a fake id. Hence why I felt bad for him. He was drunk and she was breaking the law but when daddy found out he got a good lawyer to represent his daughter (the public nudity thing) and the dude had a court appointed lawyer. When it comes to a jury trial the DA went with the tale the girl spun about being innocent and coerced and she cleaned up well on the stand because her folks were somewhat rich while goth boy looked bad.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm confused. You called her his girlfriend, but the most recent post makes it sound like a one-time thing.

 

Either way, I can't believe there's a situation where any adult would actually believe that a 14 year old is also an adult.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.