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What was Lucas's original Plan for Ep. 7?


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One also wonders about "the other" Yoda told Ben about in ESB. Was that always intended to be Leia? I'm honestly skeptical. If Leia had have been, she would not have been so obviously groomed as a potential love interest for Luke in the first two films. I think Leia was shoehorned into that role during the making of ROTJ, just as I also suspect that Vader was not always Luke's father...

I don't think you have to "suspect" Vader wasn't always Luke's father, that's well documented to be the case. Isn't it?

I'm not quite as certain about Leia always being the "other" hope, but she was certainly not being groomed as Luke's love interest beyond the first film. ESB was unambiguously about Leia and Han's relationship developing. I have no problem also believing they had it set at the time of ESB that Leia was Luke's sister and thus the "other".

According to Gary Kurtz, the other was always intended to be Luke's sister... but Leia was not planned to be his sister until the 2nd or 3rd draft of ROTJ.

 

The sister was going to be the focus of 7-8, and was on the far side of the galaxy.

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I would like to point out that George could easily give 10 completely different takes on what his idea really was, and be completely sure on each one.

Oop the record appears to be stuck again          

I personally agree with that, and have the opposite problem - I hate when the technology is explained. Which was a total downside of the EU. Star Wars has always been more magical/fantasy than science

Why not. Lets add that to the list of things that made Obi Wan look bad as Lucas was changing his mind about how the story was going to play out.

 

1. He lied to Luke about his father. From a certain point of view.

2. He hid Luke with people Vader knew, one of them being his ex stepbrother.

3. Never bothered to use a different last name while he was in hiding.

4. Never bothered to tell Luke that he had a sister until after they kissed each other and now......

5. Had no faith in Leia to become a Jedi because he was a sexist jack wagon .

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Or he just thought it was too late.

 

I know it hasn't been explained in the films, but I always assumed that Obi-Wan could appear to Luke because they had a relationship and Luke was open to the Force. If that is the case, then Yoda would've had to seek Leia out to train her.

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I always thought Obi Wan could be a force ghost because Lucas didn’t think he’d ever get to do a sequel and figured he would kill him off for dramatic effect. When it came sequel time he just pulled the force ghost thing out of his ass.

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I don't think you have to "suspect" Vader wasn't always Luke's father, that's well documented to be the case. Isn't it?

I'm not quite as certain about Leia always being the "other" hope, but she was certainly not being groomed as Luke's love interest beyond the first film. ESB was unambiguously about Leia and Han's relationship developing. I have no problem also believing they had it set at the time of ESB that Leia was Luke's sister and thus the "other".

It was apparent to me even before my exposure to the Secret History of Star Wars that Luke's father wasn't Vader as of ANH, and this innovation was not added until ESB. It also directly follows from this that there was no twin sister either, at that time. Luke, Leia and Vader have no blood relation with one another as of May 1977, when ANH (then not actually called that, just Star Wars) hit the big screen. You do have to piece the evidence together backwards, though. A major factor in all of this is that Lucas wasn't expecting SW to be a commercial hit, so didn't think all that much about sequels until after it was. Now I say "all that much" because he did consider the possibility, and the early EU Novel Splinter of the Mind's Eye was created in part with the intent to be that should the need arise, and it could be done on a relatively low budget.

 

Tank gets it right in his post above. Plus, in these early 9 film outlines that Lucas floated back in the late 70s, the Empire wasn't supposed to be completely defeated in ROTJ. Vader was supposed to have been vanquished then, but the Emperor carries on. Luke and this twin sister character are supposed to challenge him in the episode IX finale. Here is where the actual sequel trilogy had to deviate somewhat. You basically needed a new Empire and a new emperor, so the First Order and Snoke were brought in. I was surprised to see Snoke get offed in TLJ for precisely this reason.

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I think that doing the ST was a fool's errand, there was just no way to win. Even if they made GREAT movies, they would still be alienating somebody. I think the new trilogies that Johnson and the GOT guys are doing are more in line with what they should be doing.

 

NEW fresh takes/stories in the universe with maybe some cameos from the classic material if the time frames match up. I know I just said it's possible to make new Luke stories... but now I'm doubting it. His story arc finished in ROTJ.

Personally, I believe that the conception was botched for the sequel trilogy and that's why it looks so difficult. It's become a cliche, but the whole decision to go back and remake ANH with new characters was a mistake. The franchise needed to move forward with the actual story from before. I personally like Rey, even though I believed that Abrams made a dumb, lazy decision by making her so powerful without any training, but the more I think about it, the more I think we should have been eased back into a Skywalker family drama instead of dropping in on one that's already bad.

 

We kinda touched on it back on the first page, but using the broad EU as a template but completely re-imagining it would have been a good start.

 

7-9 Trilogy:

 

7. The opening crawl declares it a period of peace, but a new threat is looming. The opening scene sees a small outpost easily destroyed by an overwhelming force. Establish the new Skywalker family. Han and Leia's two children, one boy and one girl are young enough that they still have innocence and have lived in a galaxy where the Imperials are a remnant that hasn't bothered anyone in ages. Even though the EU has been gutted, the names Jacen and Jaina are retained (Anakin Solo doesn't exist). Sprinkle in a handful of new Jedi that Luke has trained. Then have things explode from the external threat as Coruscant is attacked. Han sacrifices himself to save the day (because Harrison Ford would want out either way) and the Solo children are suddenly on the front lines. The movie ends with the heroes helplessly watching ships being slaughtered during the mass exodus from Coruscant.

 

8. The mysterious external threat is examined. The Solo children slowly mature into the leaders the Republic needs. Luke faces the head of the threat and is defeated. He survives long enough to say goodbye and turns ghost. How can the good guys possibly prevail now? The Solo children each have their own theory on what is to be done. Jacen does not see how the Republic can possibly survive and leaves Jaina and his friends behind. Jaina puts her faith in the Republic and her fellow Jedi. We follow her as she wins a key battle that temporarily halts the outsiders' advance. In the final scene, Jacen goes to the Imperial remnant for aid where he meets their new leader. A Sith that has been doing as all Sith do, waiting patiently for her opportunity.

 

9. The Republic is pushed to the breaking point. Just when they're about to fall, the Imperial remnant sweeps in and lends their strength. The Solo children join together and manage to defeat the leader, but things have changed between them. The boy has fallen to the Dark Side and is in league with the new Sith Lord. He convinces himself that it's okay because he doesn't wish to destroy, merely control. The latest threat proves that a strong central power is needed. If not for the wisdom of his master, rebuilding the Imperial fleet in preparation for when the foolish Rebellion would inevitably become weak and topple on its own, the galaxy would have been lost. Jacen asks her to join him, but Jaina refuses and walks away with the remainder of the Jedi. The trilogy ends with the external threat vanquished, but with the Imperials now firmly in control as the great power of the galaxy.

 

10-12 Trilogy:

 

I won't bother with a synopsis for this, but look at what you have. The current Sequel Trilogy just plopped us right back into the Imperial/Rebellion dynamic. Here, we've worked our way there without lessening the value of Return of the Jedi. The Skywalker family drama is continuing, except instead of it being a story of fathers and sons, it's the classic civil war story of siblings on the opposite sides of the conflict.

 

Finally, I would ditch the whole idea of side movies. I think they were a mistake to do in the first place and has hurt the prestige of the franchise as it's just another movie instead of an event. And Star Wars should always be an event. Even bi-yearly, this would be difficult. It'd be like Harry Potter only on steroids. But if they made 6 solid movies that do justice to Star Wars in general in a 10 year period, that would be something special.

 

 

 

I hope the future of SW is far and away from the episode saga.They could pull something great out for IX, but JJ is an opener, not a closer. (See the ending of Super 8, Lost, Cloverfield, etc.)

 

Or TFA for that matter. Much, much better movie in the first half.

 

 

I'm not sure, it's weird, right?

Considering your profession and when you grew up, um, YEAH!

 

Rocky 1 is worth a watch at least once, and Rocky 3 is full of 1980s nostalgia. Rocky 2 is boring, except the final fight. Rocky 4 is ridiculous by today's standards, though it has James Brown in it so it gets some points there. Rocky 5 is flawed but gets back to a more realistic feel. Rocky Balboa was OK, but relies on nostalgia. Creed....damn, almost sacrilegious to say it, but is probably one of the best Rocky movies, though I guess technically it's a spin off.

I'd rank the Rocky movies like this:

 

1. Rocky

 

Hard to argue against the original phenom. It didn't invent the underdog formula, but it certainly cemented it. And it tosses in a surprising love story in the bargain. I suspect a good portion of the appeal of the movie came from Rocky choosing the unassuming wallflower. And yet Adrian remains the single most important person in Rocky's life a full two movies after they've killed her off.

 

2. Creed

 

I don't think it's sacrilegious at all to say Creed's one of the best Rocky movies. It pulled Stallone's best performance in goodness knows how long and used the Rocky formula and turned it into a story about absent fathers and the shadow their children live under. I'd place it very firmly in the #2 slot and I don't think it's a controversial placement in the slightest. It's only downside is that his opponent was pretty forgettable. Literally, I don't remember his name.

 

3. Rocky III

 

Here it's starting to become, but isn't quite, the cartoon Rocky IV would become. Mr. T's Clubber Lang is easily the 2nd best opponent Rocky faced and having Rocky work with Apollo is an interesting twist. It's let down a bit by a relatively lackluster final fight, but the ending is rather perfect. Rocky and Apollo going at it one more time all by themselves.

 

4. Rocky Balboa

 

Yes, it relies on nostalgia, but y'know what? It's pretty much everything I was asking for in a Rocky movie that would send the champ off in the way he deserved.

 

5. Rocky II

 

Really, adds nothing to the first movie, and was the first to have Rocky win in an admittedly good climactic match. However, I think Rocky works best when he loses with dignity, and this was the first movie where he won.

 

6. Rocky IV

 

God, this movie is so 80s. Reagan-era Cold War propaganda and Paulie's robot girlfriend are almost blinding. However, it does have some good points as the idea of hanging on too glory long, which the last few movies had been exploring, finally has true consequences. Also, as silly and limited as he was, Ivan Drago was definitely memorable.

 

7. Rocky V

 

Had some ideas with merit as Rocky goes from the excess of Rocky IV to being broke again, but it just couldn't pull off the going back to basics approach.

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I do feel like there is an extra level to it with Star Wars fans. The fandom can be very incestuous. You see it right on this board. You have people who initially like a movie, but then they read others complaints or whatever and you can almost see someone post by post going from "i like this" to "I don't like this". It's almost like some people have their own complaints about a movie but then by reading others complaints they almost like put the "sum of all negativity" in their own thoughts of a movie.

100% correct. Have you ever gone back to read what people wrote after their first viewing of each prequel film? You'd be surprised at how much gushing there was for those films considering the way those same people trash them now.
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I don't think I was ever a huge prequel defender around here, but I know I did like TPM enough to see it three times in theatres and be no less excited for Ep II to come out.

But growing up, having my tastes mature, and reading intelligent criticisms all contributed to me turning around and now I'm more on the side of disliking it. Although I do still think it's the best film of the PT.

 

I will also add, a fair amount of the initial love had to do with how SW starved we all were. Which is probably also why I found myself more able to be immediately critical of AOTC and ROTS.

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I can understand it. I usually am more impressed with films the first time I see them compared to subsequent viewings. I was definitely enamored with the prequels when they first came out, but I was also much younger. I was fifteen with The Phantom Menace came out.

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I've looked back at my first posts after the PT and I can see a pattern. I WANTED to like them really bad. And generally the day after I am full of rationales... but little by little it starts to all fall apart... BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT POOP DOES

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Guest El Chalupacabra

I've looked back at my first posts after the PT and I can see a pattern. I WANTED to like them really bad. And generally the day after I am full of rationales... but little by little it starts to all fall apart... BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT POOP DOES

Exactly how I feel about TLJ, and to a far lesser extent, TFA.

 

TLJ, I had mixed feelings about it when I first saw it. I saw it a second time a week or so later. Liked it better second time through, but I later came to realize it wasn't that I ACTUALLY liked it more, it was me TRYING to like it more. However, as time went on, and I digested it, TLJ fell apart for me. Now, I utterly hate it. By far, it is the worst Star Wars film to me. To me, it IS poop. I never set out to hate a Star Wars movie, it just happened. It has damaged Star Wars as a brand to me: both diminishing TFA (see below), as well as causing me to really not care what happens in Episode 9. I'll proably see Episode 9 out of obligation and curiosity to see if JJ does fix some issues I had with TLJ, but I am no where near as pumped for Ep 9, as I was prior to EP 8, when we were waiting for it after Ep 7.

 

TFA's case, I was euphoric. Loved it first time through in theater. Even more the second time. Once it came to video and I re-watched it again multiple times, my feelings for it diminished each time, especially POST TLJ. I chalk this up in part to JJ Abrams because I have long said his movies are good once or twice through, but re-watch-ability just isn't there for me (I'd cite everything all the way back to Alias, the Star Trek films, and even Fringe to an extent). I fully recognize the PT has many problems, but one thing I can say is I can still re-watch ROTS and AOTC, and given a choice between re-watching those and TFA, I'd chose the former. But, I think at this point, TLJ has more to do with my diminished positivism towards TFA than the re-watch-ability aspect. But, like I said in my earlier post, I still LIKE TFA, just not as well as my first viewing.

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I was just perusing the Star Wars archived threads and someone mentioned briefly that there was once a theory that Luke was Darth Maul. Um, how? Does anyone remember this theory and how the hell it worked? I am genuinely intrigued because it is so ridiculous.

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The stupidity was strong. The whole reason I registered on Nightly was to yell at somebody that Sidious and Palpatine weren't the same person and it was an elaborate ruse

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My main reason for registering may have been to vote for International House of Porkins for the Cantina. Not sure exactly when that happened in the timeline. I lurked from June to October, then registered.

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I think the theory was Luke went back in time to prevent his father from being trained. That;s what we used to deal with here.

 

As for changing of opinions, I'm not saying peoples views on a movie cant change. Or that they shouldn't change. You'd expect someones thoughts to change over time. It just surprises me how quickly it seems to happen sometimes.

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Oop the record appears to be stuck again

 

 

 

 

 

;)

You talking about Choc popping in to correct anyone who doesn't like TLJ? I noticed that too ;)

 

I know geez, imagine someone being on a Star Wars fan forum and liking Star Wars. It's madness!!

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My main reason for registering may have been to vote for International House of Porkins for the Cantina.

I've wondered about that. Why isn't the Cantina called the Mos Eisley Cantina? I mean, this is a Star Wars message board. Is it not? :D

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Guest Robin

I posted snarky comments in the episodeii dot polls before realizing nightly existed, then I felt my way around for a bit until birthing THT solely to flame stupid Star Wars theories.

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