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Padme and the Jedi Mind Trick


Guest Robin

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I was just surfing Facebook and happened upon a Star Wars fan talking about some theory that Padme was manipulated throughout the Prequels via the Jedi Mind Trick. Essentially the theory is attempting to explain Padme siding with Palpatine in Epi. 1 and how she repeatedly ignores everything about Anakin during his lust for her. So this is a thing? I am uncertain if I like it, I mean this strips Padme of a lot and Padme was already a character full of so much Uhh. Wow. Really? However the theory does put layers onto Anakin that are more like GLs original drafts for the saga.

 

Thoughts?

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Didn't Anakin remark that he couldn't mind trick Padme if he wanted to because she was too strong-minded? Obi-Wan further remarks in the novelization of Revenge of the Sith that Padme should have been a Jedi, indicating either that she was Force sensitive or that he sensed in her some sort of latent predisposition to the will of the Force similar to a Force sensitive. Therefore, this theory has some things wrong with it.

It is a bit unsettling, though, that Padme simply brushes aside Anakin's comment about killing Sand People women and children, but then she is mortified when she hears that he killed Jedi Younglings. Doesn't seem consistent and I wish there was some sort of convenient explanation.

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Z, prequels wise the only novelization I read was TPM. You seem to have a good memory for these things so youre probably right.

 

Fozzie, that could seem to be but then Padme was gung-ho to unite her people with the Gungans... so maybe nationalism? lol

 

Out of story wise I am leaning hard to Maras conclusion: Padme is just written horribly.

 

Side Note: Anyone having their use of apostrophes and quotes auto-edited out of posts? Its been happening to me since I updated my phones iOS, but only on Nightly.

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Remember, she was only willing to unite with the Gungans after her kingdom(?) was overtaken and she needed them. Before that, it seems she was okay with the way things were.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

I think it's one of the many theories fans come up with to try to excuse that Padme was written terribly after TPM.

As if there aren't women who do stupid things or aren't in denial when they are in love with an a-hole? If that were the case, there wouldn't be domestic abuse laws protecting women from abusers, or women that didn't keep going back to abusers for that matter. Even very intelligent women leading successful careers can and do make stupid mistakes when it comes to choosing guys.

 

While I think the PT definitely had some cheesy dialogue, and her demise was anticlimactic as Hell, her actions and denial about Anakin aren't really that far out of reality. Oddly, that actually adds a certain amount of realism to Padme when you look at it like that. I am positive that is not really what Lucas intended, and that is totally coincidental. As for being duped by Palpatine...HE DUPED THE ENTIRE GALAXY.

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I think it's one of the many theories fans come up with to try to excuse that Padme was written terribly after TPM.

As if there aren't women who do stupid things or aren't in denial when they are in love with an a-hole? If that were the case, there wouldn't be domestic abuse laws protecting women from abusers, or women that didn't keep going back to abusers for that matter. Even very intelligent women leading successful careers can and do make stupid mistakes when it comes to choosing guys.

 

While I think the PT definitely had some cheesy dialogue, and her demise was anticlimactic as Hell, her actions and denial about Anakin aren't really that far out of reality. Oddly, that actually adds a certain amount of realism to Padme when you look at it like that. I am positive that is not really what Lucas intended, and that is totally coincidental. As for being duped by Palpatine...HE DUPED THE ENTIRE GALAXY.

 

She was written terribly because her plot didn't matter anymore, she was just a vehicle for Anakin turning to the dark side. Her falling in love with Anakin is the least of her problems as a character. I'm totally fine with that part. It's her not DOING anything that's troublesome.

 

And then there's the whole "lost the will to live" bullshit.

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It's stupid. If you're going to have Anakin Force choke her, why not have him literally kill her? It's like George couldn't quite go all the way there because he wanted her death to be "poetic" or he realized "Oh yeah she actually has to still be alive to give birth to these babies."

 

The more time passes, the more I wish Padme had faked her death and worked behind the scenes with the Rebellion until Vader finally hunted her down.

 

Padme was the only female character in the movie with a speaking role and all she did was give Anakin angst, give birth, and die. It's pathetic.

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I think it's one of the many theories fans come up with to try to excuse that Padme was written terribly after TPM.

As if there aren't women who do stupid things or aren't in denial when they are in love with an a-hole? If that were the case, there wouldn't be domestic abuse laws protecting women from abusers, or women that didn't keep going back to abusers for that matter. Even very intelligent women leading successful careers can and do make stupid mistakes when it comes to choosing guys.

 

While I think the PT definitely had some cheesy dialogue, and her demise was anticlimactic as Hell, her actions and denial about Anakin aren't really that far out of reality. Oddly, that actually adds a certain amount of realism to Padme when you look at it like that. I am positive that is not really what Lucas intended, and that is totally coincidental. As for being duped by Palpatine...HE DUPED THE ENTIRE GALAXY.

 

Yes its true that there are some women who overlook terrible behavior and/or actions when they are in love. That was the point of her character in ROTS, that she--after accepting so much dark or violent behavior from Anakin in the past--still tries to reason with / support him. It was a fatal decision which fulfilled Anakin's dream. If she was of the mind to drop him because he was a creepy killer, yeah, she would have survived, but Anakin would have absolutely no reason to turn to the dark side....

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Yeah, you guys are right about the age difference. To be honest, all someone has to do is cut out the lines "Medically, she is perfectly healthy," "For reasons we can't understand," and "She has lost the will to live." Then we are only left with "She is dying" and "We need to operate quickly if we're to save the babies." Probably wouldn't be a hard edit to produce.

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She shouldn't have died in child birth anyways. She was supposed to raise Leia. Lucas couldn't figure out how to retain continuity from lines spoken in ROTJ. I think he thought he had written himself into a corner with the twins/Padme situation and came up with that bad idea. She didn't need to die on screen. A couple of lines of dialogue is all that was needed.

 

"Bail Organa, my dearest friend. The Empire will come after me soon. When that day comes, I want you to take my daughter Leia and look after her and keep her identity a secret. She's safer with you than with me, as the empire does not yet know of your plans for rebellion."

 

"What about your son?"

 

"Masters Yoda and Kenobi sensed something special about Luke. They say the fate of the galaxy is tied to his destiny. They want to watch over him in secret. The emperor does not know I had two children with Anakin."

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Guest El Chalupacabra

 

 

I think it's one of the many theories fans come up with to try to excuse that Padme was written terribly after TPM.

As if there aren't women who do stupid things or aren't in denial when they are in love with an a-hole? If that were the case, there wouldn't be domestic abuse laws protecting women from abusers, or women that didn't keep going back to abusers for that matter. Even very intelligent women leading successful careers can and do make stupid mistakes when it comes to choosing guys.

 

While I think the PT definitely had some cheesy dialogue, and her demise was anticlimactic as Hell, her actions and denial about Anakin aren't really that far out of reality. Oddly, that actually adds a certain amount of realism to Padme when you look at it like that. I am positive that is not really what Lucas intended, and that is totally coincidental. As for being duped by Palpatine...HE DUPED THE ENTIRE GALAXY.

 

She was written terribly because her plot didn't matter anymore, she was just a vehicle for Anakin turning to the dark side. Her falling in love with Anakin is the least of her problems as a character. I'm totally fine with that part. It's her not DOING anything that's troublesome.

 

And then there's the whole "lost the will to live" bull****

.....

 

It's stupid. If you're going to have Anakin Force choke her, why not have him literally kill her? It's like George couldn't quite go all the way there because he wanted her death to be "poetic" or he realized "Oh yeah she actually has to still be alive to give birth to these babies."

 

I agree with you on that. Padme's story arc was anti-climatic in ROTS, the way it is presented. I believe what Lucas was trying to do was provide Padme with a tragic flaw of not seeing Anakin was on the path to evil, and that was executed poorly. She should have seen it coming when he confessed to killing an entire Tuskin village, but overlooked it and told no one, not even Obi Wan. But, she did try to bring Anakin back with her from Mustafar, and promptly was choked out by him, so I wouldn't say she did nothing at all. It's more like she just didn't have a lot of time to do anything, once she was finally was out of denial and realized how evil Anakin became. I think if Lucas had made it clear Anakin actually did mortally wound Padme, it would have worked a lot better than the losing the will to live nonsense. I personally think that line was added in there to keep the film from being too dark for kids, so in my personal head canon is that Anakin killed Padme and ignore that medical droid's line.

 

 

 

 

The more time passes, the more I wish Padme had faked her death and worked behind the scenes with the Rebellion until Vader finally hunted her down.

 

You'll think this fan-wanky I am sure, but I remember years ago before ROTS was released, I used to think (or maybe hope) that Padme would assume the alias/new identity of Mon Mothma.

 

Padme was the only female character in the movie with a speaking role and all she did was give Anakin angst, give birth, and die. It's pathetic.

 

I don't understand why giving birth to Luke and Leia, who go on to defeating the Emperor and Vader, is seen as a non-accomplishment. But I think if there is one thing Padme should have done in ROTS, was put up resistance in the Senate to Palpatine getting absolute power (rather than effectively saying "Palpatine has absolute power and democracy is dead. Darn it."),and have some sort of arc where her actions help lay the groundwork for the rebellion to start. In fact there is a cut scene where if it were left in and a few lines were slightly changed or added, we could have seen Padme convince Bail and Mon Mothma to start resisting the Emperor.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

She shouldn't have died in child birth anyways. She was supposed to raise Leia. Lucas couldn't figure out how to retain continuity from lines spoken in ROTJ. I think he thought he had written himself into a corner with the twins/Padme situation and came up with that bad idea. She didn't need to die on screen. A couple of lines of dialogue is all that was needed.

 

"Bail Organa, my dearest friend. The Empire will come after me soon. When that day comes, I want you to take my daughter Leia and look after her and keep her identity a secret. She's safer with you than with me, as the empire does not yet know of your plans for rebellion."

 

"What about your son?"

 

"Masters Yoda and Kenobi sensed something special about Luke. They say the fate of the galaxy is tied to his destiny. They want to watch over him in secret. The emperor does not know I had two children with Anakin."

I never had the impression Padme was supposed to raise Leia. All she says is that she only remembers her mother a little, just images really, and she died when she was very young. "Technically," that works completely. But, I can see how one can be left with the impression that Padme had Leia for a little bit, and maybe died when Leia was like 6 months old or something.

 

If Lucas had ended it where Padme survived and Leia had stayed with her at the end of the film, people would have complained about not seeing Leia being placed in Bail Organa's care on screen, and not explaining how Padme died.

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I don't understand why giving birth to Luke and Leia, who go on to defeating the Emperor and Vader, is seen as a non-accomplishment. But I think if there is one thing Padme should have done in ROTS, was put up resistance in the Senate to Palpatine getting absolute power (rather than effectively saying "Palpatine has absolute power and democracy is dead. Darn it."),and have some sort of arc where her actions help lay the groundwork for the rebellion to start. In fact there is a cut scene where if it were left in and a few lines were slightly changed or added, we could have seen Padme convince Bail and Mon Mothma to start resisting the Emperor.

 

Because it's not about her, it's about Anakin. Padme has hardly any agency in this movie, and when she shows agency (like going to Mustafar), it's because of Anakin. We get some idea that she's standing up to the Emperor, but we don't actually see her doing it. The only time we see her outside of Anakin's plot is when she's in the senate with Bail Organa, and Padme in that scene is completely different than Padme in the rest of the movie, because it's about her. Compare that to Leia in The Empire Strikes Back, who is falling in love with Han, but at the same time fighting for the Rebellion.

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I really have come around to the idea that Padme dying off-screen would've been much better, unless the option of a brief montage of Leia and Padme on Alderaan with Bail and his wife were available. Killing her off just the way they did, to end her story (such as it was) was pointless and empty.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

 

 

I don't understand why giving birth to Luke and Leia, who go on to defeating the Emperor and Vader, is seen as a non-accomplishment. But I think if there is one thing Padme should have done in ROTS, was put up resistance in the Senate to Palpatine getting absolute power (rather than effectively saying "Palpatine has absolute power and democracy is dead. Darn it."),and have some sort of arc where her actions help lay the groundwork for the rebellion to start. In fact there is a cut scene where if it were left in and a few lines were slightly changed or added, we could have seen Padme convince Bail and Mon Mothma to start resisting the Emperor.

 

Because it's not about her, it's about Anakin. Padme has hardly any agency in this movie, and when she shows agency (like going to Mustafar), it's because of Anakin. We get some idea that she's standing up to the Emperor, but we don't actually see her doing it. The only time we see her outside of Anakin's plot is when she's in the senate with Bail Organa, and Padme in that scene is completely different than Padme in the rest of the movie, because it's about her. Compare that to Leia in The Empire Strikes Back, who is falling in love with Han, but at the same time fighting for the Rebellion.

 

Well, I see your point and I agree Padme should have been written better in ROTS. But really, to a large extent, the PT really WAS about Anakin, and how he became Darth Vader, so to a certain extent, Padme was always going to be a secondary character to Anakin. At least that was how it was marketed, and I assume, how Lucas chose to write it. But you make a valid point in that ROTS dropped the ball. That said, she is a queen in the first movie, and a senator in the other two. How much action and adventure do royalty and senators need to be in the middle of? In a real world situation, they wouldn't be involved in adventures at all.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

They were really bad scenes. But if they had been written better, then yes.

 

Or, have the The Clone Wars start in the first movie, the Empire form at the end of the second, and the third be the start of the Rebellion.

I have long thought that the PT should have started with the beginning of the clone wars in the first movie, the second movie the middle of the clone wars, and the final movie, the end of the clone wars and Anakin as Vader. TPM could have been a stand alone prologue movie, or the events of TPM and AOTC could have been slimmed down and combined into one movie, being the first of three movies.

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