Jump to content

Welcome to Nightly.Net
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

ESPN


119 replies to this topic

#26
The Choc

The Choc

    Member

  • Member
  • 9,157 posts

This has little do to with the argument but saying Williams had anything to do with Monday Night Footballs success is insane. His song didn't even get used on MNF until 1989 and by then MNF was an institution and incredibly successful.



#27
Metropolis

Metropolis

    Member

  • Member
  • 14,935 posts
Anyone remember Sage Steele? She was repeatedly disciplined at ESPN, even removed from her host spot on NBA Countdown because of her political (conservative) views.

#28
Poe Dameron

Poe Dameron

    Member

  • Member
  • 2,485 posts

This has little do to with the argument but saying Williams had anything to do with Monday Night Footballs success is insane. His song didn't even get used on MNF until 1989 and by then MNF was an institution and incredibly successful.

C'mon, it's the most regognizable theme song in sports this side of Bugler's Dream.  That's not nothing when it comes to keeping a brand popular.



#29
The Choc

The Choc

    Member

  • Member
  • 9,157 posts

Poe is right that it's not fair to be harsher on conservatives and then lenient on liberals. However ESPN has every right to espouse whatever politics it wants. I don't think that's what is really hurting ESPN, its all the other things we talked about. The politics may be a small factor but its a small factor.

 

The thing is ESPN wants to be buddy-buddy with the players. Especially NBA players. The NBA players are for the most part the biggest individual stars in sports. Baseball is not based on the popularity of its players. The NFL has a few big stars, mostly QBs and maybe another player or two but the NBA has the biggest "coolest" stars.

 

The NBA's biggest stars are young black men, who are going to mostly have liberal beliefs. Just a fact. ESPN wants to be a part of this culture.



#30
The Choc

The Choc

    Member

  • Member
  • 9,157 posts

 

This has little do to with the argument but saying Williams had anything to do with Monday Night Footballs success is insane. His song didn't even get used on MNF until 1989 and by then MNF was an institution and incredibly successful.

C'mon, it's the most regognizable theme song in sports this side of Bugler's Dream.  That's not nothing when it comes to keeping a brand popular.

 

MNF had been around 20 years. I liked the theme song too but it had nothing to do with the popularity of MNF. In fact this song was still in use during the time when MNF got moved off network TV to cable and started to get weaker games.



#31
Tex

Tex

    Member

  • Member
  • 0 posts
I personally hate the song, but there is no denying its popularity. At the very least it caters to redneck fans, which mean a lot of $ to the NFL.

I know that people in NY or LA like to pretend that those are the only two towns in this country, but the election proved otherwise and it's damn Hillarious to see the left try to deal with it.

Historically speaking not much has changed. The north put the south into a hole via taxation and then blamed the south for being racist whatevers when the whole thing was done. You see it today.

What I love about all of this is that you can't shake people's core values. You can demonize them, you can force them into your bull**** narrative, you can call them names, but ultimately people will call bull**** when they smell bull****.

#32
Poe Dameron

Poe Dameron

    Member

  • Member
  • 2,485 posts

I don't think that's what is really hurting ESPN, its all the other things we talked about. The politics may be a small factor but its a small factor.

 

I think you're vastly understating the multiplier.  Having a more fractured marketplace is bad for ESPN, no doubt.  But the very fact that customers have more choices by definition means that when they are presented with a product that at best goes against their beliefs and at worst is downright offensive and belligerent to them, they are a heck of a lot more likely to say to themselves "I don't need this" and change the channel for good.

 

I literally did this years ago with ESPN.  I didn't tell anyone, it wasn't a part of some larger trend or protest at the time.  One day I saw Michael Wilbon talking about how he drops N-bombs every day and white people had no business judging him for it, and it was just the final straw.

 

Right now, they've got a business model that calls for being the central hub of the entire sports culture.  With the amount of money tied up in broadcast rights, they have no option but to present for as wide an audience as possible.  Bafflingly, their programming is for a niche audience.  Oh, and this is happening in the run up to the launch a new streaming service that could make or break the entire network.

 

It's not a small problem at all.  If ESPN didn't have the money tied up in those contracts, perhaps their would be some sense in altering the network's brand and attempting to remain highly relevant among a piece of their audience.  But with those big contracts, it's not a strategy, it suicide.  They need the people they're actively turning off.



#33
The Choc

The Choc

    Member

  • Member
  • 9,157 posts
I think the thing is though that ESPN used to be essential. You had to watch it. If you didn't like their politics you'd likely still watch because you had to. Now though you can turn it off if you want.

I guess it's the chicken and egg. If ESPN was still essential you'd probably still be watching despite the politics. I mean I don't know that and really you don't either.

I haven't watchef ESON other than game coverage and 30 for 30 in years. Nothing to do with politics. Just thought their coverage sucked. Too much crappy analysis. Too much going crazy over individual plays they don't really matter.

#34
Poe Dameron

Poe Dameron

    Member

  • Member
  • 2,485 posts
I guess it's the chicken and egg. If ESPN was still essential you'd probably still be watching despite the politics. I mean I don't know that and really you don't either.

 

Correct.  Did you use "and" instead of "or" on purpose there?  Although in my personal case, I left a few years before everyone else, so the centrality wasn't as big of a factor.

 

Many of the viewers who have left would have stayed if only one of the problems existed.  If it were no longer essential, but not offensive, they would still be viewers out of habit.  If it were still essential but offensive, they'd be a captive audience.

 

Not to say that they wouldn't be losing viewers either way, but putting the two together has created a purge of viewership when they would otherwise be suffering a slower trickle.  As I said, the politics is a multiplier for a problem that is out of their control.



#35
Metropolis

Metropolis

    Member

  • Member
  • 14,935 posts
One thing I've found disturbing this week is black commentators on the news networks responding to her calling everyone a white supremacist. I saw 3 refer to the term as a generic term now that is a catch all word, and that it is not that big a deal. Wow. That's record time that we've "normalized" white supremacist. I would say the N word has been normalized for years, but that somehow is still a no no.

#36
Tex

Tex

    Member

  • Member
  • 0 posts
It's ok. Give it a few weeks and they'll just go back to calling everyone that disagrees with them Nazis again.

#37
Metropolis

Metropolis

    Member

  • Member
  • 14,935 posts
I'll put this here since it will be a topic on ESPN for a while. It had been a while since Trump had given everyone legitimate fodder for people to go after. It was a nice relatively quite month. Then he had to make that little comment about NFL players kneeling at that rally in Alabama. Seemed innocent at the time because he was pandering to the crowd. Of course it went viral and NFL players are up in arms. This morning the Jags and Ravens had a lot of players on each side kneeling for the anthem. OMG. And as I watch the NFL shows this morning this is all that's being talked about. All this talk from players and owners about unity. Sounds nice. It really does. But let's not fool ourselves, this show off unity now is not about social issues. It's about not agreeing with what Trump said. And while I don't think Trump should have went there, even though there are tons of people that agree with him, using this as a way to push forward some agenda is going to get fans riled up even more against the league. Godell and the owners need to understand (sans-serif the Cowboys and Cheifs) if the ratings drop even more, "standing with" the players will become impossible.

Now Trump vs the Warriors is a whole other story that I actually find more funny.

#38
The Choc

The Choc

    Member

  • Member
  • 9,157 posts

I don't really get the idea of not watching the NFL because some players don't stand for the anthem. I mean I'd always stand for it and I'd rather the players all did too but it's just not a big deal. I don't watch the NFL for the political leanings of its players. I watch it for the athleticism of the players. Ya know it just seems weird to me to be so mad at someone for not standing during the anthem but then at the same time be hoping that Ezekial Elliot's suspension gets reduced so he can play for the Cowboys or help your fantasy team.

 

Having said that I also have no problem with an NFL owner choosing to not employ a player who doesn't stand.



#39
Poe Dameron

Poe Dameron

    Member

  • Member
  • 2,485 posts

The NFL should have just announced fines for any athlete who shows disrespect during the anthem and given players the option to stay in the locker room if they had an issue with it last year.  Goodness knows the NFL fines the players for all sorts of acts of individuality in the name of protecting "the shield".  Why they let this fester when they'll come down hard on any little dress code violation, even if it's for an uncontroversial positive cause, is beyond me.

 

I'll tell you right here and now, that the players and owners are hurting their own wallets, not Trump, by not dealing with this last year.  Exploiting a rift where many fans feel alienated from their own culture is Trump's calling card and only makes him stronger.  The NFL fan base is almost certainly much further to the right than the rest of the country given its demographics.  Widespread acts that actively disrespecting the whole country are going to turn people off and make them less likely to want to watch at all.

 

Though, it wouldn't surprise me if the controversy causes a ratings bump this week.



#40
Metropolis

Metropolis

    Member

  • Member
  • 14,935 posts
Even though I don't agree with the stance, I hope the players show "unity" and just say they didn't appreciate what Trump had to say. Anything else and you're clearly just full of ****.

#41
Poe Dameron

Poe Dameron

    Member

  • Member
  • 2,485 posts

You can't think both sides suck?



#42
Metropolis

Metropolis

    Member

  • Member
  • 14,935 posts
I thought I was saying that loosely. Trump should never have called for owners to take action against players. Even though there are fans that have, it's not his place to do so. Though when has that ever stopped him?

As a stand against what Trump said I can understand that. Most fans don't care and just want all of this to go away. My wife has been on Facebook the last hour or so and has seen more people railing against the players than against Trump. She said she's seen at least 5 people saying they were cancelling their season tickets, and more saying they were not going to watch football until this stops.

I'm not giving up my season tickets regardless of Mike Evans and Desean Jackson kneeling. I just don't want to hear that they were doing this for something grander.

This morning on the ESPN pre game show, Anquan Boldin and Charles Woodson tried to bring a sensible argument to what Colin Kaepernick was doing. They threw the argument in the toilet when they equated this kneeling to what Ali and Jim Brown went through. I fail to see where today's black players weren't allowed to stay in the same hotel, eat at the same restaurants, or earn the same as their white counterparts. League minimum today is what? Half a million a year? Hard for that guy to relate to the average Joe.

#43
The Choc

The Choc

    Member

  • Member
  • 9,157 posts

Still, I just think this whole outrage is crazy. There is a player on the Bengals named Joe Mixon who punched a woman in the face hard enough to break bones and require surgery. If anyone is angrier over someone sitting or kneeling or staying in the locker room during the performance of a song that person is crazy.

 

As for why they are doing it? I don't think it's fair to say "well they have it better than Brown or Ali so they shouldn't do it." As an average white guy I won't pretend to know exactly what black people go through in this country. Has the country come a long way since those days, yes. I don't think anyone would argue against that. However it's not perfect, I also don't think anyone would argue that it is perfect. I don't think it's fair to say someone shouldn't protest because things are "good enough" basically.

 

Having said that I think kneeling during the anthem is wrongheaded and not going to help anything anyway. I'd rather they didn't do it, but at the same time I'm not going to act like it's some crime against humanity. Hell I'm the guy who yells at kids to take their hats off during the anthem when I'm at a game.

 

I just think it's funny to see it from both sides. You have some people calling the players "snow flakes" or whatever for overreacting and being offended by what Trump said, yet these same people are the ones who are so offended by what the players are doing. It's the pot calling the kettle black.



#44
The Choc

The Choc

    Member

  • Member
  • 9,157 posts

Also, I'll throw this out there. If we heard that in North Korea or Iran or some other country that people who did not stand for some kind of loyalty song or pledge were removed from their jobs we'd all be aghast. The fact that people can do that here is what makes the country great. I don't like the players kneeling during the anthem but the price of living in a free country is that people are allowed to do things you don't like.



#45
Justus

Justus

    Member

  • Member
  • 13,091 posts

No one should have been surprised at the kid gloves non-handling of Jemele Hill; its not her first offense, and it will not be her last. Before she ever uttered her Trump comment, she knew she had the backing of ESPN's parent company, so she would never lose even a dime of her pay. When viewed over the years, ESPN is as hyper-partisan as MSNBC or Fox News. 



#46
Metropolis

Metropolis

    Member

  • Member
  • 14,935 posts

 
As for why they are doing it? I don't think it's fair to say "well they have it better than Brown or Ali so they shouldn't do it." As an average white guy I won't pretend to know exactly what black people go through in this country. Has the country come a long way since those days, yes. I don't think anyone would argue against that. However it's not perfect, I also don't think anyone would argue that it is perfect. I don't think it's fair to say someone shouldn't protest because things are "good enough" basically.
 

Then you make an argument that gives concrete examples of actual oppression. If you're going to argue police unfairly shooting blacks, don't use instances where cops have shot people during criminal activities.

#47
Poe Dameron

Poe Dameron

    Member

  • Member
  • 2,485 posts

I just think it's funny to see it from both sides. You have some people calling the players "snow flakes" or whatever for overreacting and being offended by what Trump said, yet these same people are the ones who are so offended by what the players are doing. It's the pot calling the kettle black.

 

20 years ago, displays during the national anthem were universally condemned from all parties.  Go ask Rosanne Barr how it turned out for her.  The "Trump" side of this isn't the new one here.  There's a long history of social expectation of a certain decorum that has been violated.  And when that happens, people have bad feelings.

 

I mean, do you really want to be on the side that trashes and politicizes a cherished non-partisan tradition in sports?  And for a cause that can't even be explained half the time.



#48
The Choc

The Choc

    Member

  • Member
  • 9,157 posts
What I'm saying is that I'm not on their side. They should stand. I'm not going to make them out to be the worst people on the planet because of it either. It's a totally peaceful protest and even if I disagree with them about I'm not going to act like it's the end of the world.

#49
Metropolis

Metropolis

    Member

  • Member
  • 14,935 posts
In part it's the protest. What has people up in arms is the venue in which they are doing it. Fans don't want to go to the games and see this. Fans don't want to watch on TV and be bombarded with this. They just want to watch the games. Fans also don't understand what kneeling has to do with getting a message out. It's been a year and most fans still don't know what the players want to convey. Is it a small gesture on the players part? Yes. As the consumer though, they have the right to voice their displeasure. And if ratings continueto fall, advertisers are going to drop out. Then the owners will be forced to do something. Like Poe said, the players are biting the hands that feed them and they don't seem to care.

#50
Brando

Brando

    83% Muppet

  • Admin
  • 19,492 posts
Last post, because football is pretty low on my list of interests, but I think that most of this is being driven by social media outrage and is just caught in a feedback loop. Kaepernick kneels, social media goes crazy, other players join in, social media goes crazy, Trump joins in, the entire league is pushed towards the kneeling players. There's no desire by either side to even out forth the smallest effort toward dialogue or understanding, because you can't have meaningful conversation in 140 characters.



Reply to this topic