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DACA ending?


40 replies to this topic

#26
pavonis

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Republicans should fear the words "government shutdown". It didn't work for Gingrich. Why would it work better now? It's a Republican only show, and they can't even get along with their own President, a true RINO. Why make a perfunctory raising of the debt ceiling a political issue? Being petulant isn't leadership. But boo hoo for the Republican party. It must be tough to have all three branches and still feel like the victimized party. They have my sympathy.



#27
Poe Dameron

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Republicans should fear the words "government shutdown". It didn't work for Gingrich. Why would it work better now?

 

No reason it shouldn't have worked the first time.  All Republicans have ever had to do was stand up and say that if they don't agree to something, then it doesn't get funded.  In the case of Clinton and Obama, they have the ability to tell the president "No."  And they are completely and totally in the right to do so.

 

Sadly, Clinton won a political argument 20 years ago and, despite little evidence showing that it actually hurts Republicans, they run in terror every time shutdown is brought up.  It's a key reason why Republicans have been unable to govern effectively.  They lack the will (not ability) to defund things.



#28
pavonis

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Republicans should fear the words "government shutdown". It didn't work for Gingrich. Why would it work better now?

 

No reason it shouldn't have worked the first time.  

 

Well, be that as it may, it didn't work. You're the presumed political expert here, so why not dig into why it didn't work? I bet Newt Gingrich could explain why it didn't work for him. You can't adjust your approach if you don't figure out why something didn't work once. Just saying "it should have worked" isn't all that insightful. 



#29
Svenn

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Well, tough luck.  It's called compromise.  Both sides want something, they each give up something they don't necessarily like, but can live with, and we move forward.

 

Used to be that's how things got done in Washington.

 

Yeah.  Still gonna be ugly, bro.

 

I'm not convinced that Dems will compromise on that - they might (rightly or wrongly) calculate that Trump and the GOP will still take the political hit.  Because that's how things get done in Washington these days:  let's maintain the status quo, no matter how crappy the status quo is, if we think that we can make future political hay out of it.



#30
Marc DuQuesne

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I'm Chaotic Good.


Don't you think that's exactly what Tim McVeigh thought? The vast majority think they are good people and will justify any unlawful act with the goodness of their intent.

#31
Driver

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Chaotic Good doesn't kill innocents.

But I get your point. I'm sure from Poe's POV our spots are flipped.

#32
Marc DuQuesne

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What if killing 1 innocent would save 100? To a Chaotic Good the ends justify the means.

#33
Metropolis

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I like the that Obama came out of the woodwork again to say that what Trump did was wrong. That's irony coming from the guy that called the process unnecessary and illegal before using it as a tool to get voters a year later. You can't trust politicians on either side. Half of what they do is to get votes and not for the greater good.

Funny thing is that Trump seems to be setting up Congress to pass their own DACA.

#34
Ms. Spam

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Making it law would be a great thing for Trump to accomplish.



#35
Poe Dameron

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Republicans should fear the words "government shutdown". It didn't work for Gingrich. Why would it work better now?

 

No reason it shouldn't have worked the first time.  

 

Well, be that as it may, it didn't work. You're the presumed political expert here, so why not dig into why it didn't work? I bet Newt Gingrich could explain why it didn't work for him. You can't adjust your approach if you don't figure out why something didn't work once. Just saying "it should have worked" isn't all that insightful. 

 

Same reason as it doesn't work now.  Republicans are divided on the subject and unable to present a unified front.  It gives Democrats all the leverage and cover politically causing Republicans to automatically lose all budget battles.

 

If Republicans could install party discipline and stay on message about how government is supposed to work instead of having a vocal group soiling their undergarments and blaming other Republicans for all budget impasses, they would come out on top a lot more frequently and with much less in the way of political damage.

 

For example, even with the defectors in the Clinton era, Gingrich did get some rather significant concessions out of the White House.  This was because Gingrich had a strong hold on the House and it wasn't wavering, unlike the Senate.  This was before Democrats realized all they had to do was hold out and eventually they'd get what they want without negotiating.

Chaotic Good doesn't kill innocents.

But I get your point. I'm sure from Poe's POV our spots are flipped.

I'm fairly sure we're both a long ways off from evil.


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#36
Cerina

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Chaotic Good doesn't kill innocents.

But I get your point. I'm sure from Poe's POV our spots are flipped.

I'm fairly sure we're both a long ways off from evil.

 

I'm not.  :hmm:


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#37
Metropolis

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Making it law would be a great thing for Trump to accomplish.

He'll do it as a trade off for getting the wall built.

#38
Poe Dameron

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Making it law would be a great thing for Trump to accomplish.

He'll do it as a trade off for getting the wall built.

 

Starting to look less like they'll even try to make a bargain and will just pass an amnesty.



#39
Marc DuQuesne

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My son asked me today "Am I a Democrat?". When asked what the hell he was talking about he responded "I don't think it's right that we steal the Mexican's recipes and then kick them out". I had a good laugh at that, then I used the following analogy to dispel whatever crap he's been learning.
 
Our house is for our family. I invite people to come into our house all the time, for various reasons. Some come to visit, and leave after the good times have been had. Some come to provide a service, and leave when payment has been made. Some come by birth, then leave as soon as possible. Some get adopted into our family because they share our values and entertain us, and are welcome anytime. If I catch you sneaking into my house you will be lucky to get kicked out.

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#40
Poe Dameron

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Democrats suing, believing that the executive order that Obama himself once said he couldn't issue because he didn't have the power, and which is brazenly illegal, cannot be rescinded because doing so would be unconstitutional.

 

Meanwhile, Republicans sat on their hands and didn't put this in court for five years out of politeness.

 

Something similar is happening with Trump ending Obama's illegal subsidies to Obamacare.  Democrats are trying to run to court to force the president to continue doing something blatantly illegal.  All the while acting as though Trump, who is oddly presiding over the biggest retrenchment in the executive branch's power since Ford, is behaving like some sort of dictator for it.



#41
Poe Dameron

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Seems that the Democrats are planning to shut down the government if they don't get a deal on DACA.

 

Funny how there aren't tons of articles on how they'll pay the price.  Just articles on how pressured they are from their base.  Also funny that when Republicans shut down the government in 2013, they did it over something germane to spending, funding Obamacare.  They also controlled the House, so they actually had the power not to spend money on something as the proper form of government is that both houses and the president have to agree in order to fund something.

 

But the Democrats, a minority in both chambers, plan to shut down the government over a matter having nothing to do with the budget.  Crickets.

 

Seems the rules on such things are: Heads we win, tails you lose.





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