Jump to content

Welcome to Nightly.Net
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Game of Thrones, Seasons 7 and 8


428 replies to this topic

#76
The Choc

The Choc

    Member

  • Member
  • 9,020 posts

A few questions that probably won't be answered on the show.

 

1-What's up with Edmure Tully? I'm fairly certain that Walder Frey said that he was still locked up at the Twins. You'd think someone may try to break him out. The Riverlords would flock to his banners you'd think. The Frey's are gone and the Lannisters are not loved there, and their presence must be small considering most of their forces were sent to Winterfell. Dany or Jon should break him out, you'd get a whole nother kingdom on your side.

 

2-What of the Stormlands? The Stormlands were sworn to the Baratheons, specifically Renly. However when Renly died they went to Stannis. Now I know that they lost alot while fighting for Stannis but there can't be no men left. Cersei is officially a Baratheon still kinda but people aren't stupid and seemingly most Lords know whats gone down between Cersei, Jaime, Robert etc. You'd think any Stormlords would be anxious to fight Cersei.

 

3-Dorne is still in play, right? I mean Ellaria is dead but someone would be taking control of Dorne at some point. And the Dornish would still all hate the Lannisters.

 

Basically what I'm saying is that Dany should send someone to break out Edmure and then send emissaries to powerful/popular Lords in the Stormlands and Dorne and promise to raise them to Lords Paramount when she wins. She wouldn't be without allies for long.



#77
DANA-kin Skywalker

DANA-kin Skywalker

    American

  • Member
  • 8,781 posts
Some of the criticisms being made here are a bit unfair because some of they are being made by those with book knowledge. Remember this is a tv show, with considerably less information available. Assume any information in the book that is not in the show inadmissible as evidence. For instance: geography. Things are compressed and glossed over, making the geography a bit unclear. This makes the "teleporting around" more believable because it's really never been clear to begin with. You can describe time and distance in a book easier than you can in an hour TV episode, plus it would ruin the pacing. They are better off keeping it vague like they have been and just have people be where they need to be.

The Dorne storyline sucks criticism. It's always been considered a secondary or tertiary storyline in the show, but it's not without reason. I'm sure a huge axe was taken to it, but its obvious why it wasn't omitted completely: Obyren Martell vs. the Mountain. One of the most memorable moments in the show. You would be nuts to omit that from the show, so you need to set up Dorn for that moment to have any meaning, but at the same time the demands of television force these tertiary characters to get less screen time. The books can simply be written with more pages. The show needs to be episodic, and wrap up in a certain number of episodes and feel complete. Hindsight tells us Dorne was a challenge for the show since day one of their introduction, and I think they did about as good a job possible.

Things are moving too fast/killing off minor underdeveloped characters hurts impact criticism. Again, tertiary characters. Dorne's sole purpose for the show was to give the Mountain someone to fight. That's been done a long time ago. Now they are more like loose ends in the show. So, they get killed off early in the season while setting up the major story points. Their deaths weren't meant to have much emotional resonance (his is only episode 3-not the season finale); it was meant to give you a modicum of excitement while the main characters do all the talking and expositioning.

Highgarden should have tons of soldiers because of such-and-such. TV show Renly was a secondary/tertiary character from many seasons ago who wasn't well established in the first place. Well established characters takes screen time, amd this is television. Screen time is at a premium, and you have to consider an opportunity cost with your more important characters. I couldn't tell you how big his army was by comparison because no comparison was ever really drawn on the show. It's concentration was on the leads and other secondary characters. The show didn't give you a paragraph dedicated to telling the audience how big his army was. The only conclusion that could be drawn about how many men they had is directly proportionate to the screen time they got because that's how people's brains process visual information. Since they got minor screen time, no huge season finale climactic battles... the only conclusion that can be drawn is they didn't have too many (or too few) soldiers. So whose to say the Lannister army couldn't trample them? The show writers addressed this with one line from Olenna, and that's enough because there was very little information available to contradict.

Oh, and anybody that didn't love the Olenna and Jaime scene IS crazy. What a great job.

#78
Odine

Odine

    Member

  • Supporters
  • 2,351 posts
No one is saying they didn't love the Olenna/Jamie scene. Just that her death didn't leave any emotional impact whatsoever. It was purely narrative progression but had very little weight. But that doesn't mean it wasn't entertaining.

#79
The Choc

The Choc

    Member

  • Member
  • 9,020 posts
I don't think the scene was supposed to have us tearing up over Olenna's death. A show with this much death can't expect every single death to have a big emotional impact. Olenna herself didn't seem to be all that emotional about it. The scene was about Jaime, not Olenna.
  • Jacen123, DANA-kin Skywalker and Kyrian +1 this

#80
The Choc

The Choc

    Member

  • Member
  • 9,020 posts
As far as the easy taking of Highgarden. It has been mentioned on the show how much food they have. Several times. As recently as the season premiere with Jaime telling cersei they needed the Tyrell's.

Also the Tyrell's are known to have a huge army. It's a major plot point during the war of the 5 kings in season 2. Remember how huge Renlys army was? They were all Tyrell's. After renlys death they went over to the Lannister side. But the size of their army was a big plot point. Now maybe most of the Reachs Lords went over too Lord tarly. We have no way to know. But that's the kind of small thing that's been lost in the speeding up of the show. In early seasons there would have been more explaining he Lords of the reach going to the tarlys. More of olenna frantically trying to keep them on her side.
  • Lucas1138 +1 this

#81
Lucas1138

Lucas1138

    Spam Lord

  • Moderators
  • 18,252 posts

Pretty much everything about this post is wrong. Except the last part, which is very much right.

 

Some of the criticisms being made here are a bit unfair because some of they are being made by those with book knowledge. Remember this is a tv show, with considerably less information available. Assume any information in the book that is not in the show inadmissible as evidence. For instance: geography. Things are compressed and glossed over, making the geography a bit unclear. This makes the "teleporting around" more believable because it's really never been clear to begin with. You can describe time and distance in a book easier than you can in an hour TV episode, plus it would ruin the pacing. They are better off keeping it vague like they have been and just have people be where they need to be.

 

The opening credits of the show are literally a map meant to give the viewer some perspective. We see maps referenced all the time (Dragonstone, Cersei's war map, Tywin and Robb's war council scenes). There's references all throughout the show with regards to travel times. The very first episode references that it took Robert and co. weeks to travel to Winterfell from King's Landing. There are time cues like this all over the show. In the time it has taken Arya to go South from the Twins for an indefinite period of time to travel North (and still not be to Winterfell), John has gone from Winterfell to White Harbor, down to Dragonstone; the Unsullied sailed around the entire continent without an update from Arya. The first 3 episodes of the show necessarily have taken place over a period of months (weeks at absolute minimum).

 

It's not so much a criticism as it is a necessary annoyance. If anything it's a criticism of the decision to try and jam 4 very large books into 33 episodes. Not having any perspective on the timing of events prevents some of the narrative weight from being properly distributed.

 

The Dorne storyline sucks criticism. It's always been considered a secondary or tertiary storyline in the show, but it's not without reason. I'm sure a huge axe was taken to it, but its obvious why it wasn't omitted completely: Obyren Martell vs. the Mountain. One of the most memorable moments in the show. You would be nuts to omit that from the show, so you need to set up Dorn for that moment to have any meaning, but at the same time the demands of television force these tertiary characters to get less screen time. The books can simply be written with more pages. The show needs to be episodic, and wrap up in a certain number of episodes and feel complete. Hindsight tells us Dorne was a challenge for the show since day one of their introduction, and I think they did about as good a job possible.

 

I'm not sure Dorne ever  graduated to even tertiary status. Dorne wasn't included because of Oberyn, he could have easily been a one-off character with his briefly explained background (Elia's brother, bam, done). And if you recall, Dorne wasn't introduced until season 5, so that doesn't hold water. Dorne sucked because it had no short-term narrative purpose and the Sand Snakes were comically bad (Exhibit A: "You need a bad p*ssy.") and because the show abandoned any long term plans for Dorne because of just how bad the backlash was. You don't hire Alexander Siddig (or Indira Varma) for nothing. I actually do applaud them for more or less abandoning the storyline after they screwed the pooch at the start. They realized it and did their best to walk back the mistake.

 

Things are moving too fast/killing off minor underdeveloped characters hurts impact criticism. Again, tertiary characters. Dorne's sole purpose for the show was to give the Mountain someone to fight. That's been done a long time ago. Now they are more like loose ends in the show. So, they get killed off early in the season while setting up the major story points. Their deaths weren't meant to have much emotional resonance (his is only episode 3-not the season finale); it was meant to give you a modicum of excitement while the main characters do all the talking and expositioning.

 

Aside from getting the Oberyn/Dorne introduction reversed, you're forgetting about the death of Doran at this point too. The leader of Dorne was introduced as a major player, then assassinated and now his assassin is presumably leading Dorne. As Choc has mentioned, this is, uh, not great. "Their deaths weren't meant to have much emotional resonance" is the worst argument I could hear. If a main or auxiliary cast member gets killed without some emotional resonance, you've completely wasted it.

 

 

Highgarden should have tons of soldiers because of such-and-such. TV show Renly was a secondary/tertiary character from many seasons ago who wasn't well established in the first place. Well established characters takes screen time, amd this is television. Screen time is at a premium, and you have to consider an opportunity cost with your more important characters. I couldn't tell you how big his army was by comparison because no comparison was ever really drawn on the show. It's concentration was on the leads and other secondary characters. The show didn't give you a paragraph dedicated to telling the audience how big his army was. The only conclusion that could be drawn about how many men they had is directly proportionate to the screen time they got because that's how people's brains process visual information. Since they got minor screen time, no huge season finale climactic battles... the only conclusion that can be drawn is they didn't have too many (or too few) soldiers. So whose to say the Lannister army couldn't trample them? The show writers addressed this with one line from Olenna, and that's enough because there was very little information available to contradict.
 

Choc covered this pretty well. 



#82
Poe Dameron

Poe Dameron

    Member

  • Member
  • 2,485 posts
They're going to just keep writing themselves into a (timeline) box that they can't escape, trying to cram details into an impossibly small number of episodes.

 

Honestly, I'm cool with that at this point.  I'll take this any day over the plodding of some of the middle seasons (except Arya and the Hound's tour, that was awesome).  The episodes so far have been crisp and productive.  Really, aside from Bran taking over for the Faceless dudes in talking it boring riddles, nearly everything has been on point so far.

 

-Jon and Dany's first meeting was a real treat and the two actors instantly have great chemistry together.  Chances are, the relationship between these two will define the remainder of the series, so that gives a lot of hope.

 

-Cercei's bounced back to become a legit villain when it felt like she was left for dead last season.  I really loved the callback to the season 6 premier where she told Jaime about how she didn't want to think of Myrcella rotting the way that she kept thinking of her mother after they put her in her crypt.  Fitting punishment that she force Ellaria to live with that torture for the rest of her life.

 

-Euron's been a real treat this season if nothing else.  Where the heck did that come from?

 

-Olenna went full Godfather on her way out, didn't she?

 

-"Hey Sam, for your punishment, why don't I leave you alone with all these old scrolls."  Sam's not so fast on the uptake.  Though I do enjoy his novel form of doing the impossible.  Y'know, actually reading the instructions.

 

-Arya's gonna get to Winterfell and Sansa's going to be like, "If only someone would take out Cercei."

 

-Actually, once all the Starks are finally back together, they're all going to give Sansa one large headache.

 

-So, Dany's invasion isn't going according to plan.  From the preview it sounds like she's tired of listening to the advice of her clever advisers.  Is she about to lose a dragon?  Hey, it's nice that it's not going to be easy.  And now Jon's whispering in her ear that she needs to look to the north as well.  It may well be that she'll need to go scorched earth after all.  And it's not like Dany is completely against burning her enemies to the ground and walking out of the flames.  It's not her first wish, but it's always been a strong backup.


  • Kyrian +1 this

#83
Metropolis

Metropolis

    Member

  • Member
  • 14,711 posts
And like that the season is more than half over. **** you HBO.

#84
Lucas1138

Lucas1138

    Spam Lord

  • Moderators
  • 18,252 posts
See I can ignore plot when that's the episode we get as a result.

#85
The Choc

The Choc

    Member

  • Member
  • 9,020 posts
I don't think you mean plot as much as details. The look on Danaerys face as she rode the dragon was phenomenal

#86
The Choc

The Choc

    Member

  • Member
  • 9,020 posts

I'm guessing next week that Jaime will be Danaerys' prisoner, which will be pretty interesting regarding Tyrion. Jaime is the one relative he likes. What happens if Dany sends a raven to Cersei saying "we got Jaime, if you don't surrender we will kill him". Ofcourse Cersei won't surrender. So just what does Tyrion do is his beloved brother is scheduled for execution?

 

Also the idea that a blockade of Kings Landing is somehow more humane than burning the Red Keep is just wrong. Cersei will never surrender. She doesn't care about the smallfolk. She'd let every single one die of starvation before she surrendered.



#87
Poe Dameron

Poe Dameron

    Member

  • Member
  • 2,485 posts

-So Petyr tells Sansa his secret that he sees all and that's how he plays the game so well.  Then he meets Bran who actually does see it all, who presumably already knows that Littlefinger started the War of the Five Kings.  Petyr's in a very dangerous spot at the moment.  If Bran tells Arya, that's pretty much game over.

 

-Meera has had the least interesting role in the history of television.  Stand around Bran for about 5 seasons, watch her brother dies, drag his butt around after Hodor dies, and then just leave.  Well, bye I suppose, thanks for the lack of an arc and yet still having an anticlimactic ending.

 

-Arya's back.  Nice little touch about Ned's face considering the speaker.

 

-Jon and Dany continue their great chemistry together.  What I really like about them is that they feel so young.  Really the whole hopes of the show are on the shoulders of these two, and it's so interesting that they're both kids despite all that both have been through.  And they've started to grow a bit of a crush on each other.

 

The solution to the problem of Jon kneeling has been obvious since they met.  Jon cannot kneel because the north will not accept it, and Dany cannot allow the largest kingdom to declare independence.  It's a tricky situation with only one simple political solution that's tried and true.  Marry and combine the two houses and kingdoms together.  And from the viewpoint of all who are present, there's nothing to stop the obvious from happening.  Of course Bran will ruin it, because that's what Bran does.

 

-And to add to the goodness between them, now that Tyrion's fallen out of favor, Jon is still able to talk Dany out of her scorched earth instincts.

 

-Brienne gets a scene which is nice since her role's been basically to beat up Pod.  Not sure if I like that Arya can stand toe-to-toe with her.  Brienne's been portrayed as pretty much the best sword left in the show, and even if Arya has assassin superpowers, she doesn't need to be downgraded for Arya to get a rub.

 

-Jon is told that Dany didn't become Queen because of a dead King.  It's because she was chosen by the people.  Something that will resonate with Jon in particular.

 

-Theon's back and lucky to survive his encounter with Jon.  But then Jon's threatening a lot of old enemies and then letting them walk around a lot these days.  I'm not sure what Theon wants Dany to do about his sister though.

 

-Tyrion still loves his brother despite everything.  Jaime's fate is the biggest question mark at the very moment.

 

-Bronn did Dany a huge favor.  He tipped Cersei's hand but did not succeed in actually killing a dragon.  Now Dany knows to be cautious.

 

-Assuming Bronn's alive, it'll be interesting to see him and Tyrion back together on opposite sides.  Not to mention the whole shooting a dragon problem.  Those two were always fun.  And Bronn lost his loot.

 

-Jon: "How many men do we have do we have in the north to fight him?  Ten thousand?  Less?"

 

Davos: "Fewer."

 

And Stannis finally wins the war for proper grammar!

 


  • Jacen123, Ryn, Kyrian and 1 other +1 this

#88
irishdancer2

irishdancer2

    Dancing Through Life

  • Member
  • 5,388 posts

Wow, an episode that I'm actually feeling quite positive about! There were more than a few moments that stuck out:

 

*Littlefinger trying to play Bran, who is so far beyond caring at this point. Bran finally became interesting to me again at this moment.

*The Sansa/Arya reunion was actually decent, but it occurs to me that a significant portion of the story is now being carried single-handedly by the child (or former child) actors. They're doing quite well--Maisie Williams in particular--but I can't help feeling a little sense of loss at the absence of the acting greats who were present in season 1. Can you imagine that Sansa/Arya reunion in the hands of well-trained, seasoned actors? Not that it wasn't good, but it could've been awe-inspiring. They settled into it nicely when they met up with Bran in the godswood, though.

*I enjoyed the moment of the story coming full circle back to that dagger, and I especially loved how quickly the Stark kids moved past it because, ultimately, it doesn't matter anymore who tried to kill Bran. It matters, of course, insofar as Littlefinger played a huge part and now he's hanging around, but it's not like Bran doesn't already know that. I really hope he tries to sweet-talk Arya next episode. REALLY hope.

*Tyrion watching Jaime from across the battlefield. OMG the feelings.

 

 

Here's my question at this point: how does attacking and burning the Lannister army not make Dany, to quote Jon, "just more of the same?" I realize she's not burning the common folk but, as Mr. Young Soldier very clearly illustrated for us, that army is not a faceless, stateless entity. I know a lot of people hate the Lannisters and will rejoice at their destruction, but that doesn't exist in a vacuum even if she just attacks the army. She still has to deal with the optics of melting her enemies and running them down with a foreign horde. Also, logistically speaking, unless the Dothraki have been neutered, they're going to slip up and cause her massive PR problems. Once the war is won, do they just give up their way of life and become Westerosi? Is Drogon totally over his burning-small-children-to-a-crisp phase, or did he work those problems out over his extended vacation?


Also the idea that a blockade of Kings Landing is somehow more humane than burning the Red Keep is just wrong. Cersei will never surrender. She doesn't care about the smallfolk. She'd let every single one die of starvation before she surrendered.

At least with the blockade option, the smallfolk might right up and kill her.


  • Ryn +1 this

#89
Ryn

Ryn

    Moonshadow

  • Moderators
  • 28,544 posts

Here's my question at this point: how does attacking and burning the Lannister army not make Dany, to quote Jon, "just more of the same?" I realize she's not burning the common folk but, as Mr. Young Soldier very clearly illustrated for us, that army is not a faceless, stateless entity. I know a lot of people hate the Lannisters and will rejoice at their destruction, but that doesn't exist in a vacuum even if she just attacks the army. She still has to deal with the optics of melting her enemies and running them down with a foreign horde. Also, logistically speaking, unless the Dothraki have been neutered, they're going to slip up and cause her massive PR problems. Once the war is won, do they just give up their way of life and become Westerosi? Is Drogon totally over his burning-small-children-to-a-crisp phase, or did he work those problems out over his extended vacation?


I'm pretty sure the attack was to destroy the grain and gold. Drogon was pretty accurate in his strafing the convoy. The Dothraki were certainly overkill, however.
  • Odine +1 this

#90
Metropolis

Metropolis

    Member

  • Member
  • 14,711 posts
Should Sansa and Ariya's reunion come off as awe inspiring? They aren't exactly close at the start of the series. Sisters, but sisters who didn't see eye to eye. One was a girly girl who had aspirations of marrying Joffrey and the other a tomboy. Plus they've each been through so much, the emotions tank might be on E.

#91
Darth Krawlie

Darth Krawlie

    privileged ****lord

  • Moderators
  • 34,705 posts
EVERY SCENE TOOK PLACE DURING THE DAY

I never thought this would happen

#92
Lucas1138

Lucas1138

    Spam Lord

  • Moderators
  • 18,252 posts

Haven't seen anyone mention it - but the gold did make it back to King's Landing (per Randyl Tarly), which means Cersei will be able to hire the Golden Company - which seems like quite an odd development at this stage.



#93
irishdancer2

irishdancer2

    Dancing Through Life

  • Member
  • 5,388 posts

Did the gold make it back? Randyl was right there with them when the battle started, wasn't he?  

 

I'm pretty sure the attack was to destroy the grain and gold. Drogon was pretty accurate in his strafing the convoy. The Dothraki were certainly overkill, however.

So everyone is just going to starve to death instead? I understand what she was trying to do, but the common people aren't going to care if she frees them from Cersei unless she can come up with a way to feed them, too.

 

From a purely voyeuristic standpoint, did anyone else find it really uncomfortable to watch? There have always been horrific deaths on this show, and we certainly watched people burning alive during the battle of the blackwater, but I was pretty much feeling every emotion that showed on Jaime's face during that battle. I know it wasn't supposed to be comfortable; I'm wondering why previous battles felt less uncomfortable.

 

Should Sansa and Ariya's reunion come off as awe inspiring? They aren't exactly close at the start of the series. Sisters, but sisters who didn't see eye to eye. One was a girly girl who had aspirations of marrying Joffrey and the other a tomboy. Plus they've each been through so much, the emotions tank might be on E.

I guess I'm just thinking along the lines of both of them having had the ambition to make it home or find some semblance of home for so long. Even if the emotions tank might be on empty, that could make for a scene with its own kind of impact. Maybe I'm just being too nit-picky because I still haven't gotten the Jon/Arya reunion that I really want.  :shrug:


  • Ryn +1 this

#94
Lucas1138

Lucas1138

    Spam Lord

  • Moderators
  • 18,252 posts

Randyl says, right before all hell breaks loose, that the last of the gold is through the gates at King's Landing. That's when he and Jaime are talking about the stragglers.


  • Ryn +1 this

#95
Poe Dameron

Poe Dameron

    Member

  • Member
  • 2,485 posts

I'm guessing next week that Jaime will be Danaerys' prisoner, which will be pretty interesting regarding Tyrion. Jaime is the one relative he likes. What happens if Dany sends a raven to Cersei saying "we got Jaime, if you don't surrender we will kill him".

 

Same thing Cersei does with any letter she doesn't like I imagine.

 

636104543293686113-437103368_63610436414

 

Ofcourse Cersei won't surrender. So just what does Tyrion do is his beloved brother is scheduled for execution?

 

It's an interesting question what to do with Jaime.  He's a valuable prisoner.  Executing him would drive a wedge between Dany and one of her top advisers.  It really isn't necessary at this point.

 

But there is the little matter of Jaime being the man who killed Dany's father.  I wonder if that could be turned on its head somehow.  In return for Dany forgiving Jaime for killing her father, Jaime must renounce his vengeance on Tyrion for murdering their father.  Of course, Tyrion isn't quite aware that Jaime has sworn to kill him.  Jaime might be a rare blind spot for Tyrion.

 

It would be nice if Jaime could be turned, but his story doesn't seem the kind where he has the option.  He's chosen his side and, even if he's long known that he chose poorly, he's prepared to see it through even if he's willing to do stuff like make suicide charges at dragons.

 

Should Sansa and Ariya's reunion come off as awe inspiring?

 

I think it was handled correctly.  I wasn't expecting a tearful reunion between those two.

 

Here's my question at this point: how does attacking and burning the Lannister army not make Dany, to quote Jon, "just more of the same?" I realize she's not burning the common folk but, as Mr. Young Soldier very clearly illustrated for us, that army is not a faceless, stateless entity. I know a lot of people hate the Lannisters and will rejoice at their destruction, but that doesn't exist in a vacuum even if she just attacks the army. She still has to deal with the optics of melting her enemies and running them down with a foreign horde. Also, logistically speaking, unless the Dothraki have been neutered, they're going to slip up and cause her massive PR problems. Once the war is won, do they just give up their way of life and become Westerosi? Is Drogon totally over his burning-small-children-to-a-crisp phase, or did he work those problems out over his extended vacation?

 

There's always a difference between attacking a military and attacking civilians.  Even in our real world, there's a profound moral distinction.  Optics may not be perfect, but Dany can't just sit around her castle forever and wait for Cercei to hand her the throne.  One way or another, she needs to take it, and the only way to take it is through some sort of military force.  Hitting an army on the way home from an invasion and ransacking of an ally is pretty legit.

 

I did find it funny to hear the Dothraki say that the Lannisters couldn't fight.  I mean, I'd like to see how he'd do if the other side had a dragon.  If anything, the Lannister army held form incredibly well as they were being decimated.

 

Though, a question that should be asked is why didn't Jaime immediately send Bronn to the crossbow as soon as he heard the dragon coming?  Why wait until the battle was already half over to deploy your secret superweapon?

 

So everyone is just going to starve to death instead? I understand what she was trying to do, but the common people aren't going to care if she frees them from Cersei unless she can come up with a way to feed them, too.

 

Why wouldn't she be able to feed a city?  I don't recall a shortage of food being mentioned.  Sansa's a bit worried about it in the north, but that just makes sense since it's winter and they don't live in a fertile area.  Everywhere else seems to be doing okay.

 

From a purely voyeuristic standpoint, did anyone else find it really uncomfortable to watch?

 

I felt bad for the horsies.  Does that count?

 

There have always been horrific deaths on this show, and we certainly watched people burning alive during the battle of the blackwater, but I was pretty much feeling every emotion that showed on Jaime's face during that battle.

 

Well, burning to death has been consistently portrayed as one of the worst ways to die.

 

I think Jaime's reaction was partially a man ready to die though.



#96
Kyrian

Kyrian

    I'm back

  • Member
  • 11,383 posts

This battle really has rammed home to me just how much Daeny really needs Westerosi troops. The Dothraki would have rekt the Lannister troops anyway, but all the whooping and the way the Dothraki fought were clearly shocking enough to the Westerosi men-at-arms. If seasoned veterans react like that to a Dothraki horde bearing down on them, how will a civilian population react? She needs Westerosi troops, badly, if only for PR purposes.

 

This also got me thinking about the Brotherhood Without Banners and which side they'd join up with. Dondarrion and his men would be invaluable in the fight against Cersei, and given past allegiances, I'd say his men would be far more likely to join forces with Jon Snow than follow a Targaryen. I'm really looking forward to the Brotherhood joining the fray and seeing how they do so and what impact they'll have, especially given Dondarrion's recent history and their apparent allegiance to R'hllor.



#97
Odine

Odine

    Member

  • Supporters
  • 2,351 posts
Pretty damn good episode. Some of the CGI was a little iffy but for the most part was believable. And it was cool seeing a full sized dragon doing what it does best.

Not particularly concerned for the fate of Jamie lannister, though if he survives and is taken prisoner I look forward to some quality exchanges between himself and Tyrion.

Theon really needs to make himself useful or find a quick death cause he is beyond useless.

#98
Good God a Bear

Good God a Bear

    well ****

  • Member
  • 8,418 posts

PR purposes? Good ****...I think what she did was the perfect show of force. She is fighting Cersei. Cersei will not fight fair. You can't be all 'oh PR purposes, blah blah blah.' If she does, she'll lose. That has been proven following Tyrion's suggestions. As Oleena said, 'You're a dragon; be a dragon.'

 

That being said I did feel sorry for the horses. But Drogon is now my favorite "character" :)



#99
Poe Dameron

Poe Dameron

    Member

  • Member
  • 2,485 posts
PR purposes? Good ****

 

Oh, I wouldn't totally dismiss the PR problem.  After all, Cercei is leaning pretty heavily on the invading hordes angle to shore up her power base and it's working, including bringing the Tarlys into the fold which gave Jaime the opening to take Highgarden and the Reach.  Relying on the Dornish and Tyrell soldiers for the King's Landing operation was Dany's original plan for precisely that reason if you'll recall.

 

But Dany's power when she arrived at Westeros consisted of six pillars.

 

1.  House Tyrell

2.  Yara's fleet

3.  Dorne

4.  The Unsullied

5.  The Dothraki

6.  Her dragons

 

The first two have been wiped out.  Dorne appears to have been lost as an ally.  That's the whole group she'd planned to use to blockade King's Landing and leaves Cercei complete dominance of the seas.  And on top of that the somewhat less scary Unsullied will be out of reach until such time as they will be a proper deus ex machina.

 

So Dany's down to Dothraki and dragons.  If that's what she has to work with for the time being, then she'll have to make due.  Outside of reestablishing ties with Dorne and whoever the hell is in charge down there, I don't see where the allies come from.  Jon's focus is completely on the threat to the north.  The Brotherhood Without Banners seem an unlikely ally and are not a large army in any case.

 

Bad PR or not, you fight with the army you have.



#100
Kyrian

Kyrian

    I'm back

  • Member
  • 11,383 posts

PR purposes? Good ****...I think what she did was the perfect show of force. She is fighting Cersei. Cersei will not fight fair. You can't be all 'oh PR purposes, blah blah blah.' If she does, she'll lose. That has been proven following Tyrion's suggestions. As Oleena said, 'You're a dragon; be a dragon.'

I'm not sure you get what I'm driving at. It's far more about how she'll maintain order afterwards. I'm not expecting her to simply use the dragons and Dothraki as a threat only, but seeing as how she's so set on being a Queen of the people, Jon's words really do ring true, and she has to take in to account how the civilian populace is going to react to order being "restored" and maintained by a group of rampaging horse-borne berserker barbarians, whose idea of a good wedding is only having a dozen people killed during the festivities. The houses will have to come in to line anyway afterwards, so their troops will come in handy there, but things will go a lot smoothly if she has support from Westerosi houses before she defeats Cersei, houses she can rely on as loyal houses to keep order etc.





Reply to this topic