Jump to content

Welcome to Nightly.Net
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Game of Thrones, Seasons 7 and 8


428 replies to this topic

#51
Ryn

Ryn

    Moonshadow

  • Moderators
  • 28,537 posts
It's pretty amazing how well Cersei has come out on top these past two episodes. Very well-played.

Of course, I loved the Olenna and Jaime scene. That even in defeat, she still can hurt people. Nikolaj Coster-Waldau really shined, wearing emotion on his face the entire episode, dealing with her and Euron.

I can kind of get Dany now demanding what she wants, but her character was so much better when she was facing adversity at every step. She's just posturing. I want to see her in armor, on the back of dragon, ****ing **** up. It may be interesting if/how she changes when Jorah returns (again).
  • Odine +1 this

#52
Ryn

Ryn

    Moonshadow

  • Moderators
  • 28,537 posts
Oh, and I couldn't believe how uselessly obtuse Bran was. He has the ability to give real answers (their "brother" Jon, Littlefinger's plots) and he just talks in circles: "I am the Three-Eyed Raven now." "The Three-Eyed Raven taught me." It's a stupid cliché/trope just to slow the narrative. I don't know if it's the show not have real text to write from, but no character seems to show the same nuance like in previous seasons.
  • Odine +1 this

#53
The Choc

The Choc

    Member

  • Member
  • 8,941 posts

Bran did say he wanted to talk to Jon.



#54
Kyrian

Kyrian

    I'm back

  • Member
  • 11,354 posts

I can't believe none of the advisors have suggested a marriage to re-connect the King in the North to Dany's claim to the Iron Throne. It would allow Jon to retain his kingship whilst married to Dany, with it being an alliance through marriage and their offspring would ensure that the kingdoms are united again. That way, she can still be Queen of the Seven Kingdoms, and he can still be King in the North, retaining the loyalty and respect of the Northern banner-men; plus it would allow both of them to do what they've set out to do without them coming to blows or either of them having to submit to the other. The only real argument I can think of why they haven't is that all of her advisors, save perhaps Tyrion, know just how strong her love for Drogo was, and I think she even declared early on that she wouldn't remarry. It still makes a certain amount of sense in-universe, fan service aside.

 

My other takeaways from this episode:

 

-Olenna's confession could just be a farewell ****-you to the Lannisters, saying something she knows will rile them up and get them angry at her even more now that they can't do anything more to her;

-With the Iron Fleet attack and the Unsullied away, Dany's forces are being whittled down rather handily by Cersei - she needs Jon more than Jon needs her at this point, I feel, and he knows it, as evidenced by what he said;

-Will Bran and his abilities end up being a perfect foil to Littlefinger? A mystical straight-talker versus a realist manipulator could be very interesting; 

-Jamie is going to kill Euron, or at least try, and it's going to be a glorious encounter when it happens. Euron is clearly trying to provoke it, but whether it's just because of his natural tendency to find a niggle and stab the **** out of it or as part of a larger game remains to be seen;

-How the hell has Dany managed to keep the Dothraki in line on Dragonstone? No way they've been quiet this whole, content to be her servants, opening doors for her etc. They're going to need to be unleashed at some point, and I think that's going to be the major battle of the series, the Lannisters vs. the Dothraki Horde. Seeing the Lion troops march is clearly showing that force off, and I'm pretty sure the Dothraki make up the bulk of the Dragon Queen's army, so to me, it's setting that up nicely;

-Sam's "reward" feels to me like it really was that - I wonder if he was set the task because of what was on the scrolls, and that his achievement combined with the contents of the scrolls could be the first steps to forging his first link (a medical link), it's just the Arch-Maester couldn't be seen to be actually condoning what he did. Doing it this way would be a round-about way of saying, yes, I can see you have potential, now here's the hard-graft towards becoming a Maester.



#55
The Choc

The Choc

    Member

  • Member
  • 8,941 posts

Danaerys Targaryan, Storm Born, Unburnt, Mother of Dragons, Breaker of Chains, Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, Lord of the Andals, the Rhyoener and the First Men, and Protector of the Realm marry a bastard? Unlikely.

 

Also, that wouldn't really work. I mean its an absolute monarchy, one of the two would have to have final say on matters.



#56
Kyrian

Kyrian

    I'm back

  • Member
  • 11,354 posts

I dunno, a lot of traditions have been broken in recent times in Westeros. When was the last time a bastard was King, Joffrey notwithstanding?

 

As for the absolute authority, it could still work if they come to terms where Jon has the final say in the North due to his connection with the Wildlings, the Night's Watch and the Stark banner-men, and Dany has the final say everywhere else. Any conflicts would be arbitrated by advisors like Sansa, Tyrion, Davos and Varys, maybe even Littlefinger, tho I don't think he'd be trusted enough by either side to be given any real responsibility.



#57
The Choc

The Choc

    Member

  • Member
  • 8,941 posts

Whose name do the children take? Snow? Stark? Targaryan? If they take Stark does that mean the Targaryan line is over? If they take Targaryan how long until Sansa or Arya's offspring declare themselves real Starks and the true heirs to the North? In reality it just wouldn't be a workable situation.

 

Ofcourse alot can, and likely will, change once Jon's true heritage is learned by everyone.



#58
The Choc

The Choc

    Member

  • Member
  • 8,941 posts

I also like how Melisandre said she brought ice and fire together when Jon is ice and fire all rolled into one.


  • Ryn and Kyrian +1 this

#59
Kyrian

Kyrian

    I'm back

  • Member
  • 11,354 posts

Those are all good points. I'd imagine the children would take the Targaryen name, since he's a bastard and therefore has zero claim to the Stark name. Being a Snow, that means that the King of the North isn't a Stark, so technically Sansa, Arya and Bran would have no claim (and Bran has made it clear he has no interest in human politics now anyway) other than historical, and both Jon and Dany are destroying historical precedents as they go.

 

Just some food for thought. I don't think they'll do it at all, since it would appeal massively to the fans if they did, and if there's one thing GoT is good at doing, it's doing exactly the opposite of what the fans really want.



#60
Odine

Odine

    Member

  • Supporters
  • 2,195 posts
It feels like a marriage would be to easy, too.

#61
Odine

Odine

    Member

  • Supporters
  • 2,195 posts

You guys are nuts, the Olenna and Jaime scene was great. Olenna tells Jaime right to his face the truth about Cersei. A truth Jaime knows but has rationalized away. She also confesses to killing Joffrey. Which ofcourse Tyrion was found guilty of, which led to him killing Tywin and the Mountain killing Oberyn. Which ofcourse leads to Ellaria Sand killing Myrcella.
 


Yeah it was an entertaining scene, and Olenna's wry dialogue still elicits a laugh. But I still felt nothing for her passing.

#62
Lucas1138

Lucas1138

    Spam Lord

  • Moderators
  • 18,237 posts

They're going to just keep writing themselves into a (timeline) box that they can't escape, trying to cram details into an impossibly small number of episodes.

 

Grey Worm sails for Casterly Rock, Greyjoys sail for Dorne

Euron ambushes the Greyjoys

Euron goes back to King's Landing

Euron is celebrated for at least some time in KL.

Euron and Grey Worm apparently get to Casterly Rock at more or less the same time.

 

Never mind that this was a dumb ass plan to begin with, geographically. Or how Euron got his fleet into Blackwater Bay - past Dragonstone - when he was first courting Cersei.

 

It took Jon less time to get from Winterfell to Dragonstone than it did for Bran to get from the Wall to Winterfell.

 

Arya is the only one moving at a reasonable pace - which is unreasonable given that everyone around her has discovered Littlefinger's teleportation technology.

 

Also - LOL at taking Highgarden without a prolonged siege. Highgarden is the most well-provisioned stronghold in the 7 Kingdoms at this point, untouched by war. Even if the Tarlys and others declared for the Lannisters, the Reach forces were massive - enough to give Renly superiority in the War of the Five Kings. In the time since then, they haven't sustained any losses to speak of. So, no, the Lannisters aren't taking Highgarden that easily. But because the plot needed it to happen it did.

 

Positives: Character interaction! Tyrion's best episode since maybe dating back to season 4. He's been brutally sidelined since then.


  • Ryn +1 this

#63
The Choc

The Choc

    Member

  • Member
  • 8,941 posts
The show started going 'too fast' last season. Personally at this point it doesn't bother me. Some of the travel issues you stated are pretty funny when you think about it but does it really matter? Would the show be better if there were 3 episodes of Jaime sitting outside Highgarden? Or a couple weeks of Unsullied sitting in Casterly Rock wondering why it was so easy?

What bothers me more is how the hell is Olenna on charge of Highgarden? She wouldn't even be part of the succession plan. Even worse how is Ellaria in charge of dawn. She is the dead prince's dead young brother's mistress. Who killed the prince. How in gods name was she next in line. Lol.

#64
irishdancer2

irishdancer2

    Dancing Through Life

  • Member
  • 5,388 posts

 

You guys are nuts, the Olenna and Jaime scene was great. Olenna tells Jaime right to his face the truth about Cersei. A truth Jaime knows but has rationalized away. She also confesses to killing Joffrey. Which ofcourse Tyrion was found guilty of, which led to him killing Tywin and the Mountain killing Oberyn. Which ofcourse leads to Ellaria Sand killing Myrcella.
 


Yeah it was an entertaining scene, and Olenna's wry dialogue still elicits a laugh. But I still felt nothing for her passing.

 

This is what I'm talking about. Both actors brought their A-game, as usual, and the spirit of their personalities was there, but the quality of the dialogue was lacking. In the earlier seasons, they didn't feel the need to spell everything out as if everyone is an idiot. Olenna could've easily stopped at "I'd never seen the poison work before," Jaime would've figured it out from context, and we all come out of it feeling a bit smarter. She didn't need to continue with the "Yes, it was me. Blah blah blah details. Let me spell this all out for you exactly." 

 

Also - LOL at taking Highgarden without a prolonged siege. Highgarden is the most well-provisioned stronghold in the 7 Kingdoms at this point, untouched by war. Even if the Tarlys and others declared for the Lannisters, the Reach forces were massive - enough to give Renly superiority in the War of the Five Kings. In the time since then, they haven't sustained any losses to speak of. So, no, the Lannisters aren't taking Highgarden that easily. But because the plot needed it to happen it did.

 

Not being a book reader, I'm often missing out on details like this. I feel like this is an interesting point because Olenna really should've been more of an adversary for Cersei. She's much smarter than Cersei and has just as much of a thirst for revenge. Most people don't even like Cersei--you can't tell me that the Reach forces wouldn't have given the Lannister soldiers a hell of a fight, particularly if they'd been informed that Cersei had murdered their lord and lady.

What bothers me more is how the hell is Olenna on charge of Highgarden? She wouldn't even be part of the succession plan. Even worse how is Ellaria in charge of dawn. She is the dead prince's dead young brother's mistress. Who killed the prince. How in gods name was she next in line. Lol.

I get the feeling Olenna has always been in charge of Highgarden, even if the common people didn't realize it. From a practical point of view, who else would be in charge? Everyone is dead. Point of interest: Olenna is the mother of the last man in charge, which also happens to be Cersei's claim to power.



#65
Lucas1138

Lucas1138

    Spam Lord

  • Moderators
  • 18,237 posts

Watching LOST taught me a valuable lesson in maintaining your sanity when it comes to questioning TV shows. The answer is usually just: "Because." :shrug:

 

Olenna, based on our limited knowledge of the show-Tyrell family tree, probably would be next in line I guess. Except for the whole being a woman part. Because everyone else is dead and Loras' other brothers never existed in the show.

 

The problem with the travel stuff- and other rushed things is that it just takes the weight away from everything. A lot of this stuff is going to be cool, for sure, but it won't feel like an earned payoff.



#66
The Choc

The Choc

    Member

  • Member
  • 8,941 posts
I don't think all of your time questions and other issues are totally fair. There is no reason to think bran got to winterfell slower than jon to dragonstone. Bran could have stayed at the wall for a bit. Also as for Euron getting past Dragonstone. I don't think it's ever said that he brought his fleet to kings landing. He may have left the fleet off dorne somewhere and took a small, fast ship to meet the Queen. In fact it's possible that straight from the battle last week his fleet as a whole sailed for casterly rock while he again took a smaller ship to kings landing. Stayed a short while and then caught up with his fleet after.

I'm not saying I don't wish that the show was a bit tighter with their times and logic in some ways. I complained about it last season while most people were proclaiming it the best season of the show. Based on the info we are given a lot of stuff does get messed up time wise. But we also aren't given some information that could help explain some of it away.

#67
The Choc

The Choc

    Member

  • Member
  • 8,941 posts
As for succession of house tyrell. Loras was kings guard and not able to ascend to lord ship. Mace was in Kings Landing. There would have been the next in line at Highgarden actually ruling it while Mace was away. Whether it was a nephew or uncle or whatever. It wouldn't be an elderly lady who has no chance of producing more heirs.

#68
Lucas1138

Lucas1138

    Spam Lord

  • Moderators
  • 18,237 posts

I don't think all of your time questions and other issues are totally fair. There is no reason to think bran got to winterfell slower than jon to dragonstone. Bran could have stayed at the wall for a bit. Also as for Euron getting past Dragonstone. I don't think it's ever said that he brought his fleet to kings landing. He may have left the fleet off dorne somewhere and took a small, fast ship to meet the Queen. In fact it's possible that straight from the battle last week his fleet as a whole sailed for casterly rock while he again took a smaller ship to kings landing. Stayed a short while and then caught up with his fleet after.

I'm not saying I don't wish that the show was a bit tighter with their times and logic in some ways. I complained about it last season while most people were proclaiming it the best season of the show. Based on the info we are given a lot of stuff does get messed up time wise. But we also aren't given some information that could help explain some of it away.

 

Except for the scene where Cersei looks into the bay and the entire Greyjoy fleet is sitting there.

 

As for succession of house tyrell. Loras was kings guard and not able to ascend to lord ship. Mace was in Kings Landing. There would have been the next in line at Highgarden actually ruling it while Mace was away. Whether it was a nephew or uncle or whatever. It wouldn't be an elderly lady who has no chance of producing more heirs.

That's what I'm saying - given our knowledge of the Tyrell family tree in the show, there were no other people. The Tyrell line ended with the death of Loras and Mace. You'd have to go with distant relatives to find the proper order of succession so it makes sense that Olenna would be "regent" or steward for the time being.



#69
The Choc

The Choc

    Member

  • Member
  • 8,941 posts
Possibly. But ellaria. No chance. Lol.

Like I said the time stuff doesn't really bother me. I don't think you can say stuff won't be earned. When the big stuff happens like jon staring down the nights king, dany riding a dragon in battle, Jaime killing cersei. That stuff will be more than warned.

#70
Lucas1138

Lucas1138

    Spam Lord

  • Moderators
  • 18,237 posts

Agree on Ellaria definitely. I think the showrunners knew that was screwed up from the jump and have basically just tried to get out of it as cleanly and with as little explanation as possible. 

 

I understand why they cut Aegon, I understand why they cut Arianne. I'll never understand why, if they're introducing Dorne at all, they didn't try to deliver Dorne to Dany via Quentyn or some proxy as part of the "Vengeance. Justice. Fire and blood" plot.



#71
Good God a Bear

Good God a Bear

    well ****

  • Member
  • 8,401 posts

I have a feeling Dany is going to take the dragons and intercept the gold. Maybe take the Dothraki with her.



#72
Lucas1138

Lucas1138

    Spam Lord

  • Moderators
  • 18,237 posts

Yes. Field of Fire part 2.

 

We've spent the first 3 episodes going "oh **** how are we going to level the playing field and make it so Dany doesn't run roughshod over everyone?" Time for her to get her due.

 

One of my predictions for the latter half of the season is that Jon is going to send word to Eastwatch (and the Brotherhood once they're there) to bring down a living Wight. That'll be the only way he can get everyone to believe him. That'll give us the scenes from the trailer of the Wildlings/Brotherhood beyond the Wall. That's the only reason I can think for them to go that way.



#73
Darth Krawlie

Darth Krawlie

    privileged ****lord

  • Moderators
  • 34,380 posts

The real question is when they're gonna let Cersei grow a little more hair back so she stops looking like a ****ing Vulcan.


  • DANA-kin Skywalker, Good God a Bear and Kyrian +1 this

#74
Kyrian

Kyrian

    I'm back

  • Member
  • 11,354 posts

Did she use a body double again for the scene where she got out of bed? Asking for a friend



#75
Lucas1138

Lucas1138

    Spam Lord

  • Moderators
  • 18,237 posts

semi spoilery promo image for this week:

Spoiler




Reply to this topic