Game of Thrones, Seasons 7 and 8

[The Choc]

We are also not getting into the whole way the society works and is so hypocritical. Dany's enemies before coming to Westeros are mostly slave masters, so bad evil slave masters. Really though there isn't any functional difference between a slave master in Essos and a Lord in Westeros. A peasant in Westeros is essentially a slave to his Lord. The peasant doesn't own anything, not his land, not his crops. It's all the Lords. A peasant can't say no to the Lord. If the Lord says "hey i need more crops from you" The peasant cant gripe and then vote the Lord out. If some Lord shows up and says "hey leave your home we have a war to fight 1,000 miles from here." The peasant cannot refuse. She is tearing down this evil, awful system in Essos so that she can go place herself at the very top of basically the same system in Westeros.

 

Also the Dothraki owned slaves. The Dothraki would attack, destroy, rape and enslave entire societies of people. Dany doesn't punish them. Why not? She can use them. Why are the slave masters so bad that they deserve crucifixion while the Dothraki don't? Or the Lords of Westeros don't?

 

You have watched the story from the perspective of Dany being a protagonist. So to you the people she has gone against have all been bad. Its GoT though so no one is really all bad, no one all good (with a few exceptions). The 163 men she crucified didn't all deserve it. Maybe some did but even those were not crucified out of justice they were out of revenge and to use to spread fear of her. The Tarly's were not bad guys. The Khals she burned to death didn't deserve it. None of them had done anything worse than her "sun and stars" had also done.

 

The fact is Dany has often treated people with brutality and cruelty. She's done it over and over again. And if you are watching the show thinking "yay!!! go Dany kill those slavemasters! they are all so bad!!" The I think you are missing the show. I mean if we are all so concerned about innocent lives then our best characters are Tywin Lannister, Walder Frey and Roose Bolton whose benevolence in planning the Red Wedding lead to untold thousands of lives being spared from dying in the war.

[Cerina]

You have now literally voiced every single argument I've been making to my friends on Facebook. Except you used more words.

I approve.

[Good God a Bear]

Here is my take on this...

 

Was there foreshadowing for Dany? Yes there was some. But there was also her empathy for the innocent people. Did she crucify 163 people? Yes, but only after they crucified 163 children in the same manner. Her dragon killed a child so she locks them in the pyramid so they can't do it again. Again, empathy.

 

What I have loved in the show is the dimension of the characters. Everyone has had glimmers of light and glimmers of dark. Hell, even Jon beheaded someone becasue he refused a command and had loyalty to the Lannisters. They all actually had dimension...up until this season. But because of the rush job, everyone has become one dimensional and that's the sad part of this. I mean even Cersei, one of the greatest villans ever, was reduced to a woman standing in a window drinking wine.

 

Benioff and Weiss didn't want to do it anymore so they got it over as quickly as they could. And to me, it ruined the show. I still say these 6 episodes should have been extended into 2 seasons to truly wrap the show in the way they developed the show when it started.

[The Choc]

I agree that we could have used some more episodes. Not sure we needed 20 for this last season. Maybe 20 total for seasons 7 an 8 rather than 13. I don't think it's fair to say they just didn't want to do it any more though. They have spent 3 years making these 13 episodes.

[Good God a Bear]

Welp....

[Darth Krawlie]

Cant say it all went the way I wouldve predicted OR wanted, but I can say Im satisfied.

[Metropolis]

I loved it. There had been this sense that this was supposed to end in a blaze of glory. Didn't happen. A lot will be disappointed, a lot will be glad that they're favorite characters went on to have some sort of life. Does it count if you had Bran sitting on the Iron Throne if there was no Iron Throne to sit upon?

[Rogue 3]

I also thought it was a great ending - and gives hope for the future! Enjoyed that moment when Sam gets laughed down for his suggestion of democracy! Very pleased with the ending and not how I thought it would go about 7 weeks ago.

 

The argument of it moving to fast this year and in series 7 I understand and feel the same about. Having said that, I can't see what additional scenes need adding. I think it might simply have been sorted with an on screen caption to highlight that "x" number of days / weeks / months had passed, just to mark the passage of time. No need to follow them travelling through lands we have seen already just for the sake of it.

[Odine]

I feel like there needed to be a lot more development of story to tie the major beats together decently, i.e 10 episodes instead of 6 at least. I'm sure Bran was always meant to wind up King, but there was little to nothing to develop his character so we can see WHY he'd be a good king... Save for the fact that he is the Three Eyed Raven. And the mystique of his power, the magic et al is so much weaker in the series. I mean, all he does in the show is bugger off warging into things when he should have his mind on the job.

 

Glad Jon managed to do what needed to be done. His character was turning into a wet blanket. They pulled him back from the brink.

 

All in all an adequate ending I suppose.

 

Wish the book was out soon so I could read the REAL ending.. But hey ho.

[Odine]

Standby for a spinoff series: The Exciting Adventures of Arya

[Dark Wader]

I thought it was a good finale all in all. Not one of the best but a fitting end to the series. Glad Ghost finally got a pat. Otherwise Odine pretty much sums up how I feel about it.

[Metropolis]

Wish the book was out soon so I could read the REAL ending.. But hey ho.

Wasn't Martin still collaborating with Benioff and Weiss?

[Darth Krawlie]

How pissed were all the other lords after Sansa pulled the North out of the seven kingdoms? She waited til everyone else accepted Bran. Got a kick out of that.

[Odine]

 

Wish the book was out soon so I could read the REAL ending.. But hey ho.

Wasn't Martin still collaborating with Benioff and Weiss?

Like, they new what needed to happen but how they went about getting there is a different story

[Cerina]

Copied from my FB post earlier because I don't feel like typing out an original for Nightly.

Dany's death was one of if not the most predictable deaths in the entire series.

Bran - didn't he actually almost explicitly say (this season or last) that he no longer cares about the present/people/affairs of men? Or am I misremembering something?

Jon - what actually happened to him? Did he join the Night's Watch again? Is he Lord Commander again? Did he just say "fuck this" and left? Is there not really a Night's Watch anymore and it was just an excuse for Jon to live out his life as a wildling with Tormund?

I guess this was the shortest winter ever, huh?

On the whole, I'm very satisfied with everyone's place and continuing story. It's about as happy an ending that anyone could expect of Game of Thrones. But Holy hell could these last 2 seasons have used those extra episodes to flesh out these stories.

[DANA-kin Skywalker]

I was expecting Jamie and Cersei to look more smushed.

 

The high council to choose the new ruler was almost entirely Sansas family?

 

Sansas north gets to secede from the 7 kingdoms, but Yaras Iron Islands dont?

 

Tyrion: Who has a more interesting story to tell other than Bran Stark? Literallly everyone else on the show.

 

Sansa shouldn't have gone through with Jons exile after Greyworms army left. Instead, she should have told Jon: You dont HAVE to go north...Im QUEEN of the north. In fact, you could stay here and rule the other six kingdoms as the true heir, as you were supposed to, if you wanted to.

Point being he should have been given the choice to go north and not be banished there which...just sucks.

[The Choc]

I thought it was a very good ending. Loved how Jon fulfills the Azor Ahai/Prince who was promised prophecy by killing Dany, rather than killing the Night King. The prophecy states that Azor Ahai first tried tempering his sword in icey water and it didn't work. Then he tried tempering it in the heart of a lion, which also didn't work. Lastly he tempered the sword by plunging it into the heart of his beloved Nissa-Nissa which finally worked and the world was saved. Jon ofcourse tried to save the world by fighting ice (the white walkers), by fighting Lions (the Lannisters) and lastly by having to kill his beloved. Worked pefectly.

 

Also I liked him being "exiled". Jon likes it north of the wall, in fact just a couple episodes earlier he told Tormund he wished he was going with him. Bran knows this and kinda pulls a fast one on the Unsullied by "punishing" Jon by sending him North. Jon doesn't want the weight of his name or any of that. He wants to get away and he did. Now he can go North and become like a legendary figure.

 

The episode was kinda 2 episodes in 1, with the first one ending when Jon kills Dany. The 2nd one was essentially a post script to the whole series. It makes sense that there would not be some grand ending. It ends with an incremental (hopeful) improvement to the system with the Lords choosing their King. I loved them all laughing at Sam's suggesting. These are mostly "good guys" sitting there and they still laugh at the notion. That's how little regard they have for the smallfolk.

 

In the end, it had the right feel in that there was definitely sadness but not bleakness. Something like this is near impossible to pull off, hell even Martin has released one book in the series in 14 friggin years and Im past the point of thinking he just works slow and now believe he doesn;t know what to write. I hope Im wrong about that. I think they served Dany and Jon well though, as I pointed out with how Jon fulfilled the prophecy.

 

Was the last era of the show perfect? No, but I still loved it. When I was a kid I'd drive to Florida with my cousins. Four of us in the station wagon. Two in the backseat, two in the "way back." I can barely remember what happened in Florida but those drives, thats all we talk about. Sometimes the journey is better than the destination, and that's probably the case here.

 

For me, the storylines they chose to focus on coming down the stretch they did a good job with. I guess when most fans complaints is that it wasn't long enough and we wanted more that's a pretty good thing.

[The Choc]

This is the nitpick to end all nitpicks and it doesn't bother me and is just a funny thing I wish someone had mentioned. Seven Kingdoms has always been a misnomer. There were 8 Kingdoms: The North, Vale, Iron Islands, Riverlands, Westerlands, Stormlands, Reach, Dorne. Nine if you count the crownlands. For some reason I really wish Tyrion had pointed out that saying Bran is the Lord of the Seven Kingdoms was now technically correct.

 

Also I think why other Kingdoms didn't ask for their independence is simple. Just war weariness. At some point people just don't wanna fight. I kinda also wish maybe Tyrion had expressed surprise that Dorne or the Iron Islands didn't ask for independence and Bran said something like "they are tired of way. don't worry though one day they will be tired of peace." Basically to just express that there is no ending. There is no "Chosen One" who can bring in some long era of peace.

[The Choc]

How pissed were all the other lords after Sansa pulled the North out of the seven kingdoms? She waited til everyone else accepted Bran. Got a kick out of that.

To be honest, Dorne and the Iron Islands are the only ones who would. The other Kingdoms are similar and in reality none of the leaders present really seem strong enough to lead an independent nation anyway.

[The Choc]

I also thought it was a great ending - and gives hope for the future! Enjoyed that moment when Sam gets laughed down for his suggestion of democracy! Very pleased with the ending and not how I thought it would go about 7 weeks ago.

 

The argument of it moving to fast this year and in series 7 I understand and feel the same about. Having said that, I can't see what additional scenes need adding. I think it might simply have been sorted with an on screen caption to highlight that "x" number of days / weeks / months had passed, just to mark the passage of time. No need to follow them travelling through lands we have seen already just for the sake of it.

I think part of the issue with is seeming to go "too fast" is simply a fact of characters being in the same place. In earlier seasons how many episodes were they when main charcters are spread throughout 6,7,8 locations and each location is given 1 or 2 scenes per week? I mean that was how most episodes were done. So you could show each thing that happened very incrementally. The same thing goes for distances travelled. If someone had to travel far you could easily not show them for 1 or 2 episodes because there were so many other storylines taking place. So it seemed liek the person had spent a long time travelling.

 

Once the characters were all in 1 or 2 locations that is not longer the case. You couldn't show Dany for 4 minutes an episode the last 2 seasons. The show had necessarily brought everyone together.

 

That's not the entire issue with things seeming to be rushed but it is a large part of it.

[The Choc]

So who is in charge everywhere?

 

North: Queen Sansa

 

The Vale: Robbyn Arynn

Iron Islands: Yara Greyjoy

Riverlands: Edmure Tully

Westerlands: Tyrion Lannister

Stormlands: Gendry Baratheon

Reach: Bronn (I wonder what name he took for his house? Blackwater?)

Dorne: unnamed Dornish Prince

 

Is that all correct?

[Darth Krawlie]

This is the nitpick to end all nitpicks and it doesn't bother me and is just a funny thing I wish someone had mentioned. Seven Kingdoms has always been a misnomer. There were 8 Kingdoms: The North, Vale, Iron Islands, Riverlands, Westerlands, Stormlands, Reach, Dorne. Nine if you count the crownlands. For some reason I really wish Tyrion had pointed out that saying Bran is the Lord of the Seven Kingdoms was now technically correct.

 

Agree that Dorne and the Iron Islands would be the only ones who would actually try to secede. Also, I'm pretty sure the Riverlands and the Iron Islands were one kingdom when Aegon the Conqueror showed up, and the Crownloands weren't created until after he'd conquered everything.

[The Choc]

 

This is the nitpick to end all nitpicks and it doesn't bother me and is just a funny thing I wish someone had mentioned. Seven Kingdoms has always been a misnomer. There were 8 Kingdoms: The North, Vale, Iron Islands, Riverlands, Westerlands, Stormlands, Reach, Dorne. Nine if you count the crownlands. For some reason I really wish Tyrion had pointed out that saying Bran is the Lord of the Seven Kingdoms was now technically correct.

 

Agree that Dorne and the Iron Islands would be the only ones who would actually try to secede. Also, I'm pretty sure the Riverlands and the Iron Islands were one kingdom when Aegon the Conqueror showed up, and the Crownloands weren't created until after he'd conquered everything.

 

Yeah, the Iron Islanders ruled the Riverlands.

[Odine]

Choc you are deffo a "glass is half full" kind of guy.

[The Choc]

Another thought:

 

No one who wanted, claimed, fought for or sat on The Iron Throne survived the show. This may be out of order or incomplete but: Viserys, Robert, Renly, Joffrey, Stannis, Tommen, Littlefinger, Cersei, Daenarys. They all died. I guess Cersei's famous line "when you play the game of thrones you win or you die" is actually a bit too long. It really is "when you play the game of thrones you die." No one survived it.