Game of Thrones, Seasons 7 and 8

[captainbleh]

The YouTube clips I've seen (I've just woken up and read about the episode on Wikipedia) were very dark.

 

Sense of dread in that episode has now been replaced by wondering what will happen now that the unifying threat has gone.

[Odine]

I predicted that Arya was going to ninja the night king, but was not expecting for her to succeed or live through it.

 

That was highly entertaining though I'm a little disappointed.. They pulled so many punches. I was expecting so many big names to go out guns blazing, but all we got was the deaths of Jorah and Lyanna Mormont.

[Lucas1138]

That was, conservatively, a top 10 episode.

This was, conservatively, not.

[Odine]

I mean, the moment to moment action was awesome, and the mood was good. I do think (from what opinions I've read elsewhere online) people are being overly critical. I enjoyed the episode a lot. I was hoping for more big names to get killed off but thems the breaks. It is only 1/2 way through the season. Stuff can still happen. Dany better not get the iron throne though.

[Dark Wader]

Aside from not being able to see much - which hopefully when it's released on iTunes / Blu Ray the compression won't be so damn bad - I thought it was one of the best episodes of the series. Arya taking down the Night King isn't something I expected and it was perfect. Makes a lot of sense when you think through it all. She assassinated Death.

 

The deaths we did get weren't minor. . .Theon, Jorah and Beric all had memorable deaths. Jorah's in particular was heartbreaking. And Lyanna Mormont went out like a champ. The rest, I don't really want them to die just yet anyway.

 

Finally, the one complaint I've read most is that the built up the Night King too much just to kill him off so quickly, which I really don't agree with. Honestly I think it would of been poor writing to spend so long building up a character like Cersei as the antagonist just to deal with her midway through this season and then focus on a villain we've barely had anything to really do with the last 10 years. We got our climatic battle with the Walkers, it was epic. . .but I think the last three episodes are going to be the roller coaster. They've evened out the playing field, I'm keen to see how they deal with Cersei now.

[Darth Krawlie]

Where exactly did Arya jump from? Right behind the Night King were other Walkers. Did she somehow get into the tree? The trajectory of her jump doesn't make it likely. I saw someone speculate she was wearing the face of a Walker, which is retarded and would've been shown or at least hinted at. Was she wearing one of the jetpacks everyone on the show seems to use when traveling?

[Dark Wader]

I think she ran and leapt at him, I don't think she was jumping from anything.

Also whatever anyone thinks of the episode, the soundtrack was amazing.

[Darth Krawlie]

Can definitely agree about the music! I just dont understand how she could have jumped through a bunch of other walkers to get to that point.

[Dark Wader]

Not going to pretend these are all things I noticed, read Reddit reviews etc but I can believe it:

 

• The whole series we watch her develop into an assassin, including her ability to be stealthy - literally from the first season she was learning from Syrio, chasing cats
• She also snuck up on Jon in the first episode in the very same spot
• The bit where she was hiding from the wights, she was so quiet they only heard her when she started dripping blood

The only things I found unbelievable in the ep were Greyworm making it through (though I liked they proved everyone wrong) as well as Sam somehow and that yes, they thought everyone was safe in the crypts. And that none of the key cast down there were injured.

[The Choc]

I thought overall it was good. I mostly felt all along that this would be a definitive end to the White Walkers storyline. I;m glad they did it that way. I thought a couple more characters may die but I didn't expect the bloodbath some expected. Most of these characters have far more interesting things do to than be killed by zombies. Hopefully at least.

[The Choc]

One of the big mistakes the show has made is nearly ignoring the threat of Winter. They've had a couple mentions of it. Sansa gets word from the Citadel that Winter has begun. It snows in King's Landing at the end of season 7. It plays nearly no role however. The threat of the Walkers isn't that their army is going to come and stab everyone to death. The threat is that they bring Winter with them. Incredible freezing cold and omnipresent darkness. Everyone will die of starvation or by freezing to death not in battle.

 

Season 6 in Winterfell should have been about Winter. Should have had tons and tons of snow, constant mentions of the cold. Constant mentions of the lack of food, of livestock dying. Hell even have riots over food and furs in the Castle. Same thing goes for King's Landing. When Jaime leaves the capital at the end of last season it begins to snow. Then this season it seems postively balmy again. It should still be snowing. Winter should be everywhere, omnipresent and slowly killing the Seven Kingdoms by its mere presence.

 

As it it the Walkers cross the Wall, march to Winterfell and are defeated in a night. The vast majority of the continent didn't suffer by them at all. Winter should have been a huge factor. When Beric, Thormund and the gang is travelling from the Wall to Winterfell they should come across frozen corpses in villages, dead livestock, huge snow banks.

 

That is the threat of the Long Night really and if they had played it that way then the threat of the Walkers if far greater and lasts far longer. It doesn't feel like they attacked and were beaten in a night. It feels like their affect was felt over the course of seasons and across the entire continent. Would have made last night far more satisfying.

[Odine]

Aside from the Arya jumping from nowhere, there were some pretty stupid moments. Like, in what world where you are trying to defend a keep do you send your cavalry out to charge a force that is 10 times their number as your first move!? Retarded.

 

I agree about your thoughts on winter, Choc

[Jacen123]

Have the military operations ever made sense in the show? After Blackwater at least?

[Odine]

I suppose not? But even so...charging the dothraki at the undead? We did get the cool flames flickering out shot because of it though

[Metropolis]

That was the point though right? Start the viewers of with hope. A Dothraki hoard charging into the night with flaming arakhs. Only to be extinguished by an unseen threat.

 

Strategy wise it wasn't that crazy. You didn't know how far the dead were. You needed an idea. What was poor execution was Dany and John not getting on the dragons and lighting up the dead when they saw where the line was.

[Lucas1138]

How were the Dothraki supposed to do anything to the army of the dead armed only with their un-flaming, not dragon glass-edged arakhs?

 

Just wondering.

 

For the same reasoning the siege weaponry was in front of the infantry. And that there were no archers on the walls until they were called upon?

 

Because this show is stupid.

[Kyrian]

Too many characters wore plot armour in that battle. Sam should have died at least three times that I saw, Jon should have been taken out at least twice, Brienne, Jaime, Tormund and Gendry all appear to have been swamped at least once each, Grey Worm looked like he was going to be cut off and taken out at least twice...but overall, a good episode, strategic blunders aside (that's not how you use light cavalry, why weren't the ranges marked for the artillery, why were the infantry formed up outside the walls against what they knew was essentially an unstoppable horde, where was the burning oil to throw down the walls, why weren't the dragons used for recon and spoiling attacks as the dead approached, and why the fuck was no-one wearing a goddamned helmet except Grey Worm?).

 

It felt right that Arya was the one to kill the Night King, this is the culmination of everything that she's done and gone through led up to that point - the stealth training, the combat training, being able to pass undetected, and her intimate knowledge of Winterfell itself.

 

It also feels like the rest of the season will be an anticlimax. It will be a very interesting moment seeing how the Dany vs Jon/Aegon will resolve, as everything she's done up until this point has been to reclaim what she sees as her throne that was stolen from her, and now another Targaryen has appeared with a better claim that her. I don't think she'll be able to do what Jon did and give up the crown to do what's necessary, and it does feel like almost poetic justice that Jon would give up the throne of the North only to gain the throne of all seven kingdoms. However, I don't think either will end up on the throne. I think we'll see a Stark on the throne, possibly Sansa.

[The Choc]

I know I've always watched the show for it's realistic depiction of military strategy. That's what's always made it great.

[Odine]

I know I've always watched the show for it's realistic depiction of military strategy. That's what's always made it great.

Is that sarcasm?

[Jacen123]

I just rewatched the first three episodes of this season with my fiancee, who went through seasons 2 through 7 in the past month. I still quite like last week's episode. It definitely isn't perfect and the military strategy makes little sense for so much of the episode, but so many of the complaints I have read about it really don't hold up after I rewatched it. Granted, I watched it both times in my basement, which has no windows, with all lights off on a big screen, so I can't comment on how it looks in other conditions, but there were just a few scenes I still couldn't follow everything exactly in. I also think it is easier to follow on a second viewing when you aren't trying to watch out for who is going to die. I thought that it was easier to see what was going on in some of the scenes that initially looked like characters were dying in this time around.

 

I'm looking forward to the next episodes, though, and hope that we get much more of the conversations and intrigue that the show built itself on.

[Jacen123]

I just want to add that I'm not trying to come down on any of you who didn't like the episode. I get that it has many flaws and is likely not what many of you wanted to see and would never want to imply that you're wrong for not liking something. I just don't really understand many of the criticisms I have read online.

[Odine]

For me, it just felt like a let down in that they spent 7 seasons before building the tension and the threat of the white walkers. And for the night king to be defeated without any of the primary good guys going out felt like a feeble pay off. Thats the main thing that bummed me out

[The Choc]

The show (and even books) were always going to have a difficult time melding the two stories together. Meaning the supernatural fantasy heavy White Walkers threat story against the real politic human story. It was going to be difficult to avoid either 1-having the Walkers be such a devastating threat that everything that came before seems completely unimportant or 2-the threat wasn't so great and it's like "what was the big deal". Very hard balance to strike. The show definitely I would say came down on the 2nd one. That is unless somehow the Walkers show up again.

 

Having said that I think going about it the way they did was smart. The Walkers were better handled in earlier seasons when they were a far off threat. The closer they came to playing a major role the weaker they got. The show has always been better with the human conflicts so I think it was smart to (probably) end the Walker threat so the final three episodes can concentrate on what the show is better at.

 

The one comment I'd make is I just don't get why these last 2 seasons were shortened? There are certainly enough stories left to resolve to last more than 3 episodes. Then you consider that each episode is already long and there are 4 hours left. Seems to me last season should have been a regular 10 episode season with the Battle of Winterfell as the climax. Then this season 6+ episodes dealing with the War between the Lannisters, Starks, Targaryans, Baratheons??.

[Jacen123]

For me, it just felt like a let down in that they spent 7 seasons before building the tension and the threat of the white walkers. And for the night king to be defeated without any of the primary good guys going out felt like a feeble pay off. Thats the main thing that bummed me out

Those are the types of negative opinions about the episode that I completely understand. I've definitely felt that way about other movies/shows/events that others enjoyed.

[The Choc]

I get thinking more would die. I said here I didn;t think as many would die as some did but I did believe there would be one surprise major death although I had no idea who. Thing is I just think so many of the characters have more interesting things to do potentially than die in that battle. Take Jaime, I heard alot of people thinking he'd die. What is better though, him dying in the middle of a battle? Or him now. He has nowhere to go. His sister and lover hired someone to kill him. The people he was fighting on don't exactly like him. What's his place in the Stark-Targaryan alliance (which probably won't hold but for now...)? Who knows what Jaime is going to do, its interesting and could be great. Certainly they could have added to the death toll. Characters like Grey Worm could have died just to add some weight. But I am personally very glad that none of the very main players died last week.