Game of Thrones, Seasons 7 and 8

[Cerina]

Why is nobody questioning why that damn lake wasn't frozen solid to begin with? It's not like the lake just began to cool down a few months ago or anything.

 

Sansa/Arya - until I find out otherwise, I'm going to pretend that Arya immediately guessed Littlefinger's motives with hiding that note and she's already killed him. The entire episode was Arya wearing Littlefinger's face and doing her damnest to show Sansa what a complete moron she is, was, and always will be.

 

Jon Snow is going to wind up on the throne. He's literally the Ice and Fire from the title. Now that his parentage has been legitimized and somebody has finally started asking Dany about her successors, it's obvious he's going to be the one on the throne, essentially rendering damn near everything from Robert's Rebellion on as moot (throne-wise). Cersei's going to betray them, duh. Dany is going to take her throne (it's in the prophecy), and Jaime will be forced to kill Cersei (prophecy, probably to save all of humanity on Westeros) leaving Jon's real parentage to come to light giving him the throne by every logical means available.

 

Tormond and the Hound go on many adventures together always to return to Winterfell so that Tormund can try his hand at nailing Brienne again and again.

[Poe Dameron]

 

 

Once that I've froze back over, it should have been a fight that lasted 10 seconds, not a fight that lasted long enough for Danny and her dragons to fly 1000 miles to rescue.

 

They really need to stop telegraphing their last-minute rescues. It totally kills all tension when you're just waiting for the cavalry that you already know is on its way to arrive and save the day. They did the same thing at the Battle of the Bastards, only this was even more obvious because we saw Dany get on her dragons.

 

 

 

Tormond and the Hound go on many adventures together always to return to Winterfell so that Tormund can try his hand at nailing Brienne again and again.

 

The wonders Tormond experienced beyond the wall:

 

3. Survived a zombie horde.

2. Saw three dragons.

1. Learned a new word for penis.

[Ryn]

What I want to know is if the dragon will breath ice.

Best part is it ain't a wight. I was wondering why they were dragging it from the depths when the King could've just raised his arms. Once he touched it, though, I realized he was making it a White... well, Walker doesn't quite work. But an ice-breathing dragon will be so neat.

[DANA-kin Skywalker]

A bit of irony.

 

The wight walkers are played up to be this giant, evil unstoppable threat that must be exterminated. What we've been shown is that they mind there own damn business north of the wall. They've killed people, but only as few as needed to run the intruders back out of their territory. Body count is minimal. They seem to stand around amd chase humans back behind they wall whenever they cross it.

 

The human factions are a war-like people and haven't stopped trying to kill each other since the show started. Humans are more relatable to us than mystical, frozen undead necromancers, so we side the westerosi humans...however they are far from "good". Dany in particular has been built to be a fairly moral leader, at least better than the current status quo; but her dragons and armies have an incredibly high body count, and her dragons have the highest destructive capabilities. she's got a ton of blood on her hands.

 

Maybe the wall is designed to keep the humans out rather than the wight walkers in.

[Odine]

 

Once that I've froze back over, it should have been a fight that lasted 10 seconds, not a fight that lasted long enough for Danny and her dragons to fly 1000 miles to rescue.

They really need to stop telegraphing their last-minute rescues. It totally kills all tension when you're just waiting for the cavalry that you already know is on its way to arrive and save the day. They did the same thing at the Battle of the Bastards, only this was even more obvious because we saw Dany get on her dragons.

Aye, you're bang on the money there. Would've been much better if they didn't send anyone and they just tried to stand their ground and go out valiantly. Dany could've shown up as she did without us knowing she was on her way, and the teleporter complaints would be null because for all we knew she might have left not that long after Jon and Jorah headed for the wall. Being that Dany doesn't like heroes getting themselves killed.. All the motivation she needs really to chase after them.

[Dark Wader]

I think it's worth considering that the whole thing was a trap by the Night King, that way it starts to feel less like a last minute rescue and instead a tragic mistake. Without going to deep into it, there is a lot to indicate the Night King knew Snow was coming - when Bran sees him the vision he is standing on the same rock that Snow and Co. have their last stand, the randomly isolated walker with the troop of wights that die except for conveniently one - he didn't seem phased, nor did any of the other walkers (who we have seen surprised before). All just so the NK could grab himself a shiny new dragon.

 

With that considered, I don't find it too hard to forgive some of the conveniences in the episode since they appear to be false victories. I don't find it too hard to forgive some of the ridiculous travel jumping considering the s**t Ive already suspended my belief for in the series so far, and as Stevil said its generally just been padding anyway to cover a lot of it up.

[Dark Wader]

Not sure whether Jaime/Bronn are captured or if they somehow get away. If they’re captured I think Tyrion returns the favor of Jaime helping him escape after his trial by combat. He probably can’t do this overtly, since Dany is not at all pleased with him right now and based on her conversation with Varys recently. Maybe Tyrion thinks Jaime understands that they’re on the losing side, and he tells Dany that Jaime is their only hope of a rational outcome with Cersei (This is dicey… I think everyone knows she’s too far gone for that, but idk)

 

Jon takes some obsidian and goes back up North and leads an expedition (Brotherhood without Banners, Wildlings) beyond the Wall or over by Eastwatch to try to capture a White Walker or Wight to bring back South to show people that their damn Iron Throne absolutely does not matter right now. I can see this taking the bulk of episode 6 and include some big set pieces (it was prominently featured in the trailer).

 

Season ends with The Wall coming down and the second War for the Dawn has begun in earnest.

 

Bonus: I remain steadfast in my belief that a dragon is going down at some point and getting raised by the Night King.

 

So much of this was on point...I thought the expedition into the north to get a wight would be ridiculous but totally nailed it. :|

 

Agreed with the Wall coming down, and again completely called the Dragon....

[DANA-kin Skywalker]

I think it's worth considering that the whole thing was a trap by the Night King...

 

Wait...do you mean a trap for Jon, or Dany? If you meant Jon...most definately. Jon was tracking the little walker group, but turns out was that was bait set by the night king. That was very clear.

 

If you meant a trap for Dany and her dragons...it would account for all the conveniences, and would render the distance/time issue concerning the rescue irrelevent. The night King has been so underdeveloped that nothing is off the table.

 

If "it's a trap for Dany" was really what they were going for, some more set-up beforehand would have been better. Otherwise, it looks less like a trap and more like a lazy and sloppy episode, and falls under the "good idea bad execution" category.

[Good God a Bear]

The dragon being killed was actually released in a leaked outline of the season last November. I went back and checked that leak and everything has happened as it was stated.

[Lucas1138]

The Great Other getting a dragon has been long speculated in book fandom.

 

(as have most things, frankly, since it's been 6 freaking years since the last book)

 

I didn't think it would happen so soon though.

 

Not sure whether Jaime/Bronn are captured or if they somehow get away. If they’re captured I think Tyrion returns the favor of Jaime helping him escape after his trial by combat. He probably can’t do this overtly, since Dany is not at all pleased with him right now and based on her conversation with Varys recently. Maybe Tyrion thinks Jaime understands that they’re on the losing side, and he tells Dany that Jaime is their only hope of a rational outcome with Cersei (This is dicey… I think everyone knows she’s too far gone for that, but idk)

 

Jon takes some obsidian and goes back up North and leads an expedition (Brotherhood without Banners, Wildlings) beyond the Wall or over by Eastwatch to try to capture a White Walker or Wight to bring back South to show people that their damn Iron Throne absolutely does not matter right now. I can see this taking the bulk of episode 6 and include some big set pieces (it was prominently featured in the trailer).

 

Season ends with The Wall coming down and the second War for the Dawn has begun in earnest.

 

Bonus: I remain steadfast in my belief that a dragon is going down at some point and getting raised by the Night King.

 

So much of this was on point...I thought the expedition into the north to get a wight would be ridiculous but totally nailed it. :|

 

Agreed with the Wall coming down, and again completely called the Dragon....

 

I really wish Jaime would have been captured and we'd gotten some more moments with him and Tyrion or even Dany. The whole metal-armor-in-water bit and Bronn somehow getting them to safety and away from the Dothraki was a bit.... dumb.

 

Re: the silly expedition up North. They spent so much time focusing on how Jon was going to get the 'South' to understand the threat that was the only way I could see it happening (plus as I said, the trailers featured it heavily) and you get the confluence of characters like BWB and the Wildlings all going to Eastwatch, you knew something had to happen there. I didn't imagine it would come about so... oddly (them sitting around the map room on Dragonstone and just off the cuff coming up with it lol)

[DANA-kin Skywalker]

So that's how people have been making these wild predictions that all come true. I told a coworker I thought at least one of Dany's dragons were going down by the end of the season, and she said she thought the night king was going to take it down and raise it. I always thought that was strange because give what we know about the night king, I can't see how she would have ANY reason to think that was going to happen (other than it COULD happen). Yeah...she saw the leaked outline.

[Lucas1138]

Why is that prediction so crazy?

 

Here's an ASOIAF thread from three years ago predicting exactly that - even getting the right dragon: https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/6uzw80/spoilers_extended_fire_consumes_but_cold/

 

I can't remember if we've talked much about Cersei's new pregnancy but my speculation is that it's Euron's. We've been playing fast and loose with the timeline (to put it mildly) so who knows if that's plausible or not. I think they've intentionally kept him off screen lately to preserve that "surprise." I think the baby comes out with black hair and Jaime realizes Cersei's betrayal. He's stood by her through everything (and then some) and she still doesn't care.

 

I'm just trying to come up with scenarios where Jaime would finally betray Cersei. It has to happen and all the other bad shit she's done hasn't cracked him so maybe it'll take a romantic betrayal (laaaaaaaaaaaame).

[captainbleh]

When Jaime and Olenna talk in 7x03, you can see that Jaime is still clinging to a belief that Cersei is doing things for some sort of greater good instead of acting entirely in own her interests. If, as you predicted, Cersei has no intention of honouring anything she agrees to after seeing Jon-with-wight, Jaime might finally betray her.

[Lucas1138]

It's just hard for me to rationalize because their dynamic is so different in the books at this point. I cling to the belief that conflict will eventually come - but maybe it just won't in the show.

 

In the books, when Jaime releases Tyrion he tells him about the whore Tyrion married and how she actually did love him (really boiling that down), this incenses Tyrion and he tells Jaime that yes he did kill Joffrey and Cersei is ****ing Lancel, and one of the kingsguard, and basically who knows who else. This is the beginning of the end for Jaime. This shakes him to his core and he basically wants nothing to do with Cersei from that point.

[Lucas1138]

It's a slow day at work so what the hell, Imma keep going with my random disjointed thoughts.

 

Presumably the Night King will use Viserion to bring down (part of) The Wall. Why? Because that will look coolest and that's how these decisions are made.

 

What, then, was the Night King's plan to get the army of the dead beyond The Wall before they got a dragon? Had everything just preceded as normal could Westeros have stayed safe behind the Wall? It's seeming like it. Is that just poor writing or will there be some other explanation?

 

This is the only thing that gives me pause poo-poo'ing the terrible Bran-is-the-Night-King theory. I think the show might actually be going there.

[The Choc]

If the baby ends up being eurons and that is what pushes Jaime against cersei I don't think it's lame. I think you are looking at it wrong. It wouldn't be the romantic betrayal. It would be that Jaime wants to be a dad so badly. He has 3 kids but couldn't be the father. He saw his oldest turn into a monster. When Marcella says she knows Jaime is her father it's a huge moment for him. You can see how much it means it him. Ofcourse it's taken away immediately. Fast forward to now and cersei tells Jaime they are having a child again. Only this time Jaime can be th father. Look at his face. You can see what it means to him. Now if that is taken away? That would be a reason to kill her.

[Lucas1138]

Except for the fact that we're losing out on the fact that Jaime is basically a decent person (by Westerosi standards). His redemption arc is basically gone in the show.

[The Choc]

Just because Jaime is with Cersei doesn't mean he isn't a good person. He is a decent person on the show already. We've seen good people fight on the side of bad people before.

 

From his perspective all rulers are awful. He saw the Mad King, lazy Robert and his own son all be awful kings. His father wasn't exactly a good person but was an effective ruler. Then Ned, a good guy, gets himself killed, his family destroyed.

 

Why would Jaime think turning in Cersei would help anyone. Is the next monarch likely to be some paragon of virtue?

 

So he stays on his side and tries to influence Cersei towards the good. Like with not torturing Olenna.

 

Until possibly something does push him over that edge.

[Lucas1138]

What's going to push him over the edge at this point? She blew up part of the city, killing innocents (why he killed the Mad King in the first place), leading to the death of their own son. That wasn't a deal breaker for him. Seems pretty determinative.

[The Choc]

I have no idea what would push him over the edge or if anything will. Maybe he never will turn on cersei. Maybe he will stay with her to the bitter end. Maybe they will rule the 7 kingdlms together at the end I still think he likely turns on Cersei but it's ok if he doesn't. I dont want everyone's predictions on everything to come true.

[DANA-kin Skywalker]

Why is that prediction so crazy?

 

Here's an ASOIAF thread from three years ago predicting exactly that - even getting the right dragon: https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/6uzw80/spoilers_extended_fire_consumes_but_cold/

 

I didn't say it was crazy; I said it was wild, as in out of the blue...because there was no reason to think it would actually happen with the information given at that time other than it could. Predicting it three years ago is even more out of the blue (and impressive), but it's not really a shock considering all of the theories that people come up with that some are bound to actually come true. That's just law of averages.

 

As far as Cersei's baby is concerned, I'm also dubious it's Jamie's. It would be a far more interesting story if it were Euron's, considering how well he gets under Jamie's skin. Cersei was prophecised to have only three children though, and Maggie the Frog has been on the money so far, so there is that. This baby is probably not going to make it.

[Good God a Bear]

She's going to miscarry...book it.

[Lucas1138]

I'll take your word that you're not the one giving away spoilers from the outline now

 

Right the prophecy becomes a major problem - but the question remains how much weight the show gives to that (and a lesser question in my mind, is who says the prophecy has to be true).

 

A miscarriage would be "interesting," but I'm not sure what the narrative purpose of that development would be at this point.

[DANA-kin Skywalker]

The queation of succession is brought up for both Dany and omg totally preggers Cersei, practically at the same time. My guess is it's because now that the threat of death is closer now than ever. They are at war with each other and the walkers are...doing stuff.

 

As far as serving the story goes, it's probably to antagonize Jamie in some way, as been mentioned on here already. If the baby dies, it probably will affect him even more than Cersei. Jamie is a decent guy on the wrong side.

[Lucas1138]

I also have seen theorized that she gives birth to a dwarf, which would be pretty interesting. She might even kill it herself which sets Jaime off (could be a bridge too far, even for GoT). Or die in childbirth. I don't know.