Game of Thrones, Seasons 7 and 8

[Odine]

The North will ally with Dany and they'll take care of the lannisters. Either that or arya will strike her off the list. I think we're over thinking this one.

 

Using the Dothraki horde to distract the soldiers while Drogon burns them from above is a sound tactic. And it was a military target.. So no real PR problem I can see. As for the human cost... Well, that's warfare. New stark wasn't afraid to lop off a few heads, and Robert baratheon was no pushover in war. Neither was Renly, and they are our examples of the more heroic or righteous of characters.

If she starts burning cities full of civilians... Then that's a different story.

[Kyrian]

Again, not the PR problem I was referring to. Using the dragons and Dothraki against military targets is the best way to utilise them, no doubt, and she did the right thing in destroying the major Lannister force in Westeros. It's far more about how the civilian population will react to having the Dothraki around, completely disregarding if they're used against armies or not. Dothraki hordes have a terrifying reputation, as do dragons, but they've always been far away threats used to threaten naughty kids with. Now they're here, in your back garden, smashing the troops that have been riding roughshod over you and your friends for years now, burning and rampaging across lands that haven't seen their like before. How would you react? I suspect badly.

 

So it's nothing to do with their use against military targets, which I completely support, nor is it about the human cost. It's to do with how the civilians will react to their presence and how they'll interact in the coming weeks and months. Given the choice between having Westerosi knights or Dothraki horsemen riding around keeping the people in line, the people would far rather have the Westerosi troops, so by using non-Dothraki troops, order will be a lot easier to restore and maintain. Foreign troops always have a far more difficult time keeping the peace than domestic troops and it's always better to have the locals maintain their own order in their own way, as they know the people and the best way to handle them.

[Odine]

I'm with you now.

[Lucas1138]

The rapid travel times of recent seasons and possibility that single episodes or between episodes take place over the course of weeks or months make it difficult to predict but here’s what I think will happen over the course of the end of the season…

 

Dany takes what’s left of the Lannister/Tyrell caravan and tells them they’ve got two options – but since the second option is being melted by nuclear dragon fire, they’ve really only got one. Dickon and/or Randyl try something heroic, or just defy her and she makes an example of them. Everyone else decides Dany has a very compelling argument.

 

Not sure whether Jaime/Bronn are captured or if they somehow get away. If they’re captured I think Tyrion returns the favor of Jaime helping him escape after his trial by combat. He probably can’t do this overtly, since Dany is not at all pleased with him right now and based on her conversation with Varys recently. Maybe Tyrion thinks Jaime understands that they’re on the losing side, and he tells Dany that Jaime is their only hope of a rational outcome with Cersei (This is dicey… I think everyone knows she’s too far gone for that, but idk)

 

Jon takes some obsidian and goes back up North and leads an expedition (Brotherhood without Banners, Wildlings) beyond the Wall or over by Eastwatch to try to capture a White Walker or Wight to bring back South to show people that their damn Iron Throne absolutely does not matter right now. I can see this taking the bulk of episode 6 and include some big set pieces (it was prominently featured in the trailer).

 

Jaime ends up back in King’s Landing and negotiates a truce of some kind. Cessation of hostilities. Something. Maybe through the power of we-don’t-care-about-travel-or-geography Jon is already back down with said captured Walker or Wight and it is convincing enough evidence for everyone, at least temporarily. Cersei has no intention of honoring this but does for the moment until the Golden Company can arrive and she can get back to being awful. Sidenote: Maybe the GC will be led by Daario, who is a ****bag and abandoned Meereen.

 

Sam will discover that Rhaegar’s marriage to Elia was annulled and he was secretly married to Lyanna before Robert’s Rebellion. This makes Jon the rightful heir to the Iron Throne. This is ultimately irrelevant but noteworthy. Sam has enough of maester school and heads out to Dragonstone/Winterfell/The Wall. Jorah heads to Dragonstone or wherever Dany is.

 

I have no idea what will or might happen in Winterfell. Littlefinger will get progressively more in over his head. Arya will kill him. Sansa will continue to lead and get the people ready for the Long Night. Bran will… keep doing Bran things I guess. I don’t know.

 

Jon and Dany will marry, as that’s the only way he can still be King (in the North) while still kind of bending the knee to her. Something she remains steadfast on. One of them will die before the end of the series to spare us more incest.

 

Season ends with The Wall coming down and the second War for the Dawn has begun in earnest.

 

Not mentioned: Euron, Asha, Theon (maybe Theon gets one last shot at redemption by rescuing or trying to rescue Asha?). Unsullied at Casterly Rock, Tyrion, Davos (both of them will just handle various political machinations I guess), Brienne (goes beyond the Wall?)

 

Bonus: I remain steadfast in my belief that a dragon is going down at some point and getting raised by the Night King.

 

I'm not guaranteeing any of this of course, and there are problems or reasons why a lot of it can't or won't happen, just some fan-fiction to pass the time.

[captainbleh]

That's very similar to what I think will happen too, weird

 

The shot where they set fire to 20 stuntmen was amazing

[Lucas1138]

Not too weird, in the context that we're running out of "branches" the plot can go out on - while still moving quickly toward the conclusion. There are only so many ways we can go at this point.

 

My favorite shot was the one of Drogon going from left to right lighting up the caravan, that was incredible.

 

As was the one where the skeletal remains turned to ash and blew away. Creepy.

[The Choc]

This is what Dany should do

 

First sit down Lord Tarley "listen I get why you sided with the Lannisters, you didn't know me and thought you were doing the best thing for your family and The Reach. Well now you do know me and you know what's best for you. Bend the knee and I will name you Lord of Highgarden and Warden of the South." If he refuses kill him and make the same offer to Dickon. If he refuses kill him and make the same offer to the next most powerful/respected Lord in The Reach.

 

Next take your army, now featuring The Reach and go to Casterly Rock. Name Tyrion Lord of Casterly Rock and Warden of the West. Afterall Tyrion is the rightful Lord with the death of Tywin. Pardon Tyrion for killing his father. With the true rightful heir sitting in the Rock and Dany already having a huge army and dragons there is a good chance that the Lord of the Westerlands will all fall in line with her.

 

Then you march to the Riverlands and set Edmure Tully free. There really is no Lord in the Riverlands now. Get Edmure back in place and the Lords of the Riverlands will all fall in line very quickly and will thank her for it.

 

March to Storm's End, find the most powerful Lord in the Stormlands and name him Lord Paramount of the Stormlands. The Storm Lords will not love Cersei due to her killing Robert and fighting both Stannis and Renly in war.

 

Go down to Dorne, figure out who should be in charge there with all the Martell's dead. Place someone in power as the new Prince of Dorne.

 

 

She already has a psuedo agreement with The North which for the time being gives her a psuedo agreement with the Vale too.

 

 

That would leave Cersei in charge of absolutely nothing with only a fancy chair to sit on. She is going about this backwards, she wants to take the Throne and then she will have to make all these appointments and alliances afterward if she wants to truly rule Westeros. She should go around and make those dealings first.

[Lucas1138]

That's all well and good, but it's silly to think that Done, the Riverlands or the Stormlands will ever pop up in the show again so it's almost pointless to consider.

[The Choc]

Yeah, I agree.

[The Choc]

That's kinda my point. It's near impossible to predict what will happen because the show has done away with so much. We can't look a the political realities and then try to extrapolate what will happen based on those realities because the show could just ignore them, or not ignore them.

[Lucas1138]

Book-Jaime and Book-Stannis are my two favorite characters in the series - This edit comes pretty close to encapsulating Jaime's arc in the show and even though it's missing some major book-beats, it's still really awesome.

 

[The Choc]

Jaime is awesome in the book and on the show. Stannis is better in the books but overall the show did a good job with him too.

[Lucas1138]

Jaime is awesome in the show, I agree. But until we see him turn on Cersei he's a lot less sympathetic. He starts to turn on Cersei after he lets Tyrion out and Tyrion tells him about all the fornicating Cersei is doing with people who aren't Jaime. This culminates when Cersei sends Jaime the letter when she's imprisoned and he tosses that in the fire. In the show he's just been a good soldier so far, not questioning anything about her madness.

 

The show did a good job with Stannis. That's about as far as I'm willing to go. He's a terrific character in the books. That's a tough spot because he isn't a POV character, so all the detail we get about his character is secondhand and you have to piece it together, which is hard to convey via others in the show.

[Lucas1138]

This might be the best 3 or 4 episode stretch in the series. Definitely of the post-season 4 era.

[The Choc]

That was the best episode of the season easily. The anullment revelation is huge. Plus some unexpected stuff.

[Lucas1138]

It's noteworthy for sure, but I'm not sure how much plot-relevance it will have.

[Odine]

Damned good episode. Very satisfying, while at the same time being a massive prick tease. Just what you want.

 

That annulment thing.. if its about Jon's parentage... is kind of irrelevant anyhow. He doesn't care about thrones and sitting on them. He's got bigger fish to fry. But he might just wind up sitting on it as a result of all the shit that is coming.

 

I love the Hound. Hands down one of the most compelling characters in a TV show in a long time. Such a wounded monster, struggling to find some kind of channel for his only talent that is being brutally violent. No one can say c*** quite like him either.

[The Choc]

It's 100% about Jon's parentage in that he is now Rhaegars trueborn son rather than a bastard son. You are right that Jon may at first not care but follow the show down the course. The two claimants of the Throne now are Cersei and Dany. We know Cersei is crazy and awful. Now we see Dany burning prisoners alive which is basically what the Mad King did to start Robert's Rebellion. What if she continues down this path. What happens if Jon comes to the conclusion that Dany is not a good Queen and that he HAS to rule. Being the true Targaryan heir and having a better claim to the Throne than Dany would come in handy.

 

Plus how will Dany react when she hears this news that not only is Jon Rhaegars son, but he is his trueborn son and thus the rightful Targaryan heir to the Throne? She may take the news too well.

[Odine]

You think we're going to get a happy ending?

[The Choc]

No, when did I say anything near that? Martin has said many times that it will be bittersweet. Which could mean alot of things. I kinda think it means that the Walkers will be defeated but at a terrible cost, that some characters we like we may end up not liking and that someone we may not like could sit the Iron Throne.

[Kyrian]

#KingslayerForTheIronThrone

[Lucas1138]

It's 100% about Jon's parentage in that he is now Rhaegars trueborn son rather than a bastard son. You are right that Jon may at first not care but follow the show down the course. The two claimants of the Throne now are Cersei and Dany. We know Cersei is crazy and awful. Now we see Dany burning prisoners alive which is basically what the Mad King did to start Robert's Rebellion. What if she continues down this path. What happens if Jon comes to the conclusion that Dany is not a good Queen and that he HAS to rule. Being the true Targaryan heir and having a better claim to the Throne than Dany would come in handy.

 

Plus how will Dany react when she hears this news that not only is Jon Rhaegars son, but he is his trueborn son and thus the rightful Targaryan heir to the Throne? She may take the news too well.

 

We just don't have the time - even as they sprint toward the finish line with increasingly little care for detail or nuance. I agree with all your points, I just don't see how they'll fit that conflict in.

 

My personal belief is that yes Dany is descending into "Mad Queen" territory and she's growing increasingly dark. I believe she's not going to survive the series. So I think (as Odine alluded to) if Jon ends up on the Iron Throne, which he doesn't want at this point, it's going to be because he saved the realm not because he's Rhaegar Targaryen's trueborn son.

"Lord Seaworth is a man of humble birth, but he reminded me of my duty, when all I could think of was my rights. I had the cart before the horse, Davos said. I was trying to win the throne to save the kingdom, when I should have been trying to save the kingdom to win the throne."

 

-Stannis Baratheon, Jon XI, A Storm of Swords

 

That's the key difference between Jon and Dany at this point. She's singularly obsessed with winning the throne because it's "hers." We'll see if and how her attitude changes.

[Good God a Bear]

I can't believe Mara hasn't stepped in yet and I'm about to, but....

 

So Jon kills thousands taking back Winterfell and it's all cool.

 

Dany kills soldiers using her dragon and she's tipping toward being the Mad Queen?

[The Choc]

You don't see the difference in killing people in battle versus killing prisoners who surrendered?

[The Choc]

Also I don't see why they'd have Gilly mention the thing about the anullment if it weren't going to play some role.