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Spiderman: Homecoming


50 replies to this topic

#26
Justus

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My favorite Spider-man movie by a long, long shot.

The Raimi movies were pretty good, but they were way too tied to the overt cheeziness of the 60's and 70's version of the character.  (We won't even talk about the Amazing movies.)  This one was pitch-perfect in adapting Spidey in how he's been portrayed for about fifteen or so years now.  Tom Holland absolutely nailed the part as well.

 

 

Are you referring to the comics? You mean the most defining version of the character with (almost inarguably) its most famous stories?  I'll take that "cheesiness" any day, D-Ray.

 

Homecoming: Tom Holland was a lively Peter Parker, but there was not much meat on the bones of this film. Keaton's "blue collar" Vulture had a paper-thin motive for turning into arms dealer/general criminal, so he was not much of a compelling threat.

 

First adventures should sell the hero as someone who has the potential to be something more than he is, but I did not find that in SMH in the way it was successfully sold in Raimi's Spider-Man. In the first Raimi film, the question of his place and responsibility (there's that word) to the world was pretty dramatic (typically classic Spider-Man, which Raimi respected), especially the ending in the cemetery (ending his old life as much as it was the end of Osborn), which suggested his would be a lonely journey, instead of doing it for kicks. That was how a Spidey film should be produced.

 

Perhaps the Homecoming sequel will do a better job, but for my tastes, Raimi's Spider-Man / Spider-Man 2 are the best adaptations of the character to date.  


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#27
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I have very little knowledge of the history of the character or the comics but I enjoyed this version because it was funny and fun to watch. The villian reveal was contrived, but it didn't bother me all that much.

#28
D-Ray Kenobi

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The old cheese of the character and stories have been done to death in countless tv shows, films, etc.  We're kind of past it.  The modern Spider-man has evolved into something that's more relatable to age demographic that Peter Parker is actually in.

Which, if you think about it, is entirely appropriate to Marvel's ethos.  While DC characters kind of remain timeless gods, Marvel's characters change with the times and remain flawed and relatable. If Spider-man and its films are going to stay relatable, it has to as well.



#29
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Saw it today and I thought it was great. I didn't think I would based on what I saw from Civil War, but I was pleasantly surprised. Holland's goofy approach to the character worked for me.

And I really like Keaton. I never thought the Vulture would work well in a movie but it did here.

#30
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Anyone else stay for the very end credits scene?

 

My partner and I burst out laughing. Well played, Marvel, well played...



#31
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The Vulture reveal didn't stick out that badly to me. It seemed fitting in the context of the story. It had a pretty "small" scope.

The MJ one was "Eh. What? Why?"

#32
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The Vulture and Fam were just stand-ins for the Osborns relationship to Peter, I got the desire to rebuild that dynamic without redoing the Goblin so it didn't annoy or amaze me.

I think the Michelle/MJ reveal almost cheapened the Michelle character. Either do it or don't. Also Feige's comments about how it was more a throwback or Easter egg and not an indicator that she is Mary Jane feels like backtracking. This entire reveal tasted like Nolan doing "My real name is Robin" in DKR (which for the record I still think is the most successful cluster**** of a film ever made, both financially and by critical praise).
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#33
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This entire reveal tasted like Nolan doing "My real name is Robin" in DKR

 

Ha! That's literally the first thing that popped into my head when she said MJ.


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#34
pavonis

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Did people really expect Mary Jane Watson to be in Peter's high school?



#35
Robin

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Have you ever read a Spider-Man comic book?
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#36
Ryn

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When I started reading it, Gwen was already dead and MJ had already been around for awhile. I always assumed, in-comic history, Gwen was high school and MJ was college.

#37
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I get how that can be assumed, plus comic lore is always so wonky depending on who's writing it. However I am as certain as I can be that MJ is literally the girl next door and she went to high school with Peter, even rivaling for his attention with Gwen. If I recall correctly MJ moves in next door during Peter's high school years, which is why I personally don't care if she was/wasn't in Homecoming... it just slightly annoys me that they M.Nighted her name into the film AND THEN Feige's wishywashy comments about whether she is MJ. Just do it, or don't. lol

#38
pavonis

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I'll be more specific - did people really expect MJ Watson to be in Peter's high school that was specifically for science and technology students? I'm not saying she couldn't be, but they wanted to keep Flash in the movie and had to turn him into a douchebag academic instead of a jock. How much of a change to the MJW character would be required to make her fit in to the MCU's version of Midtown High?

On a broader note - since we know that there will be sequels to SMH, does it make sense to introduce the most well-known love interest in Parker's life in the first film? Shouldn't that be something that is progressed towards, not just dropped in to the movie merely because she's well known? And what of Gwen Stacy and Betty Brant?
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#39
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Oh I see. Fair point.

#40
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I think the Michelle/MJ reveal almost cheapened the Michelle character. Either do it or don't. Also Feige's comments about how it was more a throwback or Easter egg and not an indicator that she is Mary Jane feels like backtracking. This entire reveal tasted like Nolan doing "My real name is Robin" in DKR (which for the record I still think is the most successful cluster**** of a film ever made, both financially and by critical praise).

It almost suggests Feige and Company wanting to break new racial ground with MJ, but holding back from a genuine reveal, waiting for audience reaction, since Peter was already sweet on a non-white girl, and some fans were already bitching about the roles of Liz and "MJ" not being filled by white actresses.  As you say, either do it, or don't. Marvel/Disney needs to grow a pair and just say "MJ" is the Mary Jane, and will be Peter's love interest.



#41
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Yep.

Anyway, here's a little scene which I hope we see in a sequel regardless of who MJ is (and that said I am in favor of Zendaya actually being MJ);

Peter needs to become the school mascot on the cheer squad, in a classic "I could beat all those people on that team but..." character moment. Then during an event MJ knowing who is in the mascot costume walks by Mascoted-Peter and alluringly says, "Hey there, Tiger." FYI the school mascot in Homecoming is a tiger.
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#42
Poe Dameron

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My own thoughts on the movie were pretty much that while it seemed like a technically good movie.  I just couldn't get past that this version of Spider-Man is a distant 3rd to the Maguire and Garfield versions.  While the whole young Spider-Man thing was fine for Civil War, I just didn't think it worked for a full movie.  I mean, even though the Amazing Spider-Man movies were a bit of a mess, Garfield had a good solid take on the character that was distinct from Maguire but still felt right.  That, and my opinion that he and Emma Stone were very cute in their scenes together held the movie to at least watchable standards.

 

For this one, everything just felt rather washed out.  Holland feels like a poor echo of Maguire.  Just younger.  And while the whole hero worship thing was okay for Civil War, it's almost offensive to the character how pathetic he is in wanting to be an Avenger for most of the movie.  I mean, the whole "I'm nothing without this suit"?  What the living hell is that coming from Spider-Man, even a boy Spider-Man?

 

And, yeah, the whole bit about not paying attention to the destruction they were bring about in the finale undercut the whole irresponsibility and not being ready thing they had going.  I mean, they were crash landing a plane in New York.  Hello!  That's triggering.

I get how that can be assumed, plus comic lore is always so wonky depending on who's writing it. However I am as certain as I can be that MJ is literally the girl next door and she went to high school with Peter, even rivaling for his attention with Gwen. If I recall correctly MJ moves in next door during Peter's high school years

Sorry, but you're incorrect.  Peter was already at Empire State University by the time he officially met Mary Jane and got the whole, "Face it tiger...you just hit the jackpot!" line.  For that matter, he met Gwen Stacy in college as well.

 

Frankly, what annoys me most about it is that this is the 3rd Spider-Man iteration and Kirsten Dunst is still the closest we've gotten to a faithful adaptation.  What's up with this?  Why can't they cast a model gorgeous party girl that slowly sheds her layers?  Why do they keep casting girl next door types including Shailene Woodley in the Amazing Spider-Man cut scenes?  The original comic book Mary Jane could make for an amazing love interest if done right.  We know this because she's already been a backbone for the comic for 50 years now.

 

Outside of Lois Lane, Mary Jane is perhaps the best known and most successful love interest in all of comics.  You'd think that at some point they'd just go with that version.  I don't get it.  I wondered the same thing with the Jesse Eisenberg in Batman v. Superman.  We still haven't seen the most iconic version of that character on the big screen either since Gene Hackman predates the modern version and Kevin Spacey more or less reprised Hackman's interpretation.  So why do they feel the need to go in these weird alternate directions like Jesse Eisenberg or Michelle in Homecoming when the iconic and best interpretation is still fresh and ready to go?

 

And while we're on it, what the heck was up with Flash?  I know when I think of Flash, I don't think wannabe academic decathlete.

 

Still liked that they went with young Aunt May though.  Older-than-dirt Aunt May never made sense.



#43
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Okay, you and Ryn are right about college. I must have been recalling Aunt May's attempts to put Pete on a date with MJ long prior to and then the teaser meeting in issue 25 which was prior to Pete heading to college in issue 28.

Flash in Homecoming was a bully and an athlete, he just also was intelligent.

While beauty is in the eye of the beholder the prior MJs have been good looking and Zendaya (if Michelle is MJ) is gorgeous. All of them have not been far from supermodel appropriate, except perhaps height (excluding Zendaya here who is tall) and all of them are not far from super successful supermodel Cara Delevingne.

As for Aunt May being old not making sense to you I can only assume your experience with variations in family builds is low. My oldest child is 19 years old, my youngest is 5 years old. Let's say Ben Parker was my oldest and Richard Parker my youngest. If Richard decided to wait until say 35 to have a child, securing his career etc prior, then Ben is already 49 and fair assumption that May is similiarly aged. If Peter is 4 or 5 when his parents die that puts Ben and May into their 50s, 10 years later for high school aged Peter puts Ben and May in their 60s.

Now let's look at a couple famous people in the 1960s that could easily have been visual and character inspirations; Henry Fonda and Katharine Hepburn.

Henry Fonda aged 58 in Spencer's Mountain (1963)

Katharine Hepburn aged 55 in Long Day's Journey Into Night (1962)

Afterthought: Marisa Tomei is 52 years old. Her age still right in the zone for the above. A few things are likely happening here genetics, advances in modern healthcare (including artificial enhancers) and fashion help older people stay looking more youthful.
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#44
Poe Dameron

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While beauty is in the eye of the beholder the prior MJs have been good looking and Zendaya (if Michelle is MJ) is gorgeous. All of them have not been far from supermodel appropriate, except perhaps height (excluding Zendaya here who is tall) and all of them are not far from super successful supermodel Cara Delevingne.

 

I'm not saying they're not good looking.  I'm saying they went for girl next door, a different type of beauty.  And in Zendaya's case they purposely dressed her down and gave her like the polar opposite type of personality as early Mary Jane.  To me, you should think to yourself, "Holy ****, she's gorgeous" when you see Mary Jane for the first time and she totally knows it.  Once again, the classic "You hit the jackpot" line.  In a high school setting, she would be the classic popular girl.  Something closer to, oddly enough, Laura Harrier in this movie.

 

Again, Kirsten Dunst is as close as we've gotten to that, and it's just strange.

 

As for Aunt May being old not making sense to you I can only assume your experience with variations in family builds is low.

 

Oh, I know it's possible.  I've got an aunt in her 80s and a sister still in her early-20s in my own family.

 

But the idea of parents, aunts, and uncles being really old as just a matter of course is a relic from another time.  I'd point out that Mary Jane's Aunt Anna is also quite aged.  For some reason all parents were gray-haired, wrinkly and ready for the grave when, especially back then, having children is kinda a young person's game.  Watch some movies from the 60s and 70s and how parents were portrayed and it's all rather silly.

 

Jettisoning the whole trope is a good thing.


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#45
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I get what you're saying about the old looking parents thing, but famous fictional dads in the 1960s while often appearing older were not out of the correct age range. Such as Andy Griffith in the Andy Griffith Show who was 34 years old. Or Fred MacMurray in My Three Sons who was 52 years old.

Tim Allen in Home Improvement was 40, Ray Romano in Everyone Loves Raymond was 39 and Matt LeBlanc in Man with a Plan is 50.

It's the combination of genetics, medical advances and fashion that make it seem like modern entertainment doesn't have "old" parents. We're generally feeling younger thanks to modern medicine and fashion is allowing people to appear more youthful and vibrant as well.

#46
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Afterthought: Marisa Tomei is 52 years old. Her age still right in the zone for the above. A few things are likely happening here genetics, advances in modern healthcare (including artificial enhancers) and fashion help older people stay looking more youthful. 

And probably some post production digital clean up, as well. But yeah, I think people are aging better these days.  



#47
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I tweeted at Holt McCallany the other day because in Mindhunter they make him look 10 years older than he is to play a character thats actually ten years younger.

43 looked like a middle aged old man in the 70s. Im almost 43 and dont look a day over 35 according to my doctor.

I mean my blood pressure, cholesterol, lungs, and knees are pure ****, but I LOOK young which is all that matters.
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#48
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Did Marisa Tomei look My Cousin Vinny young? I wouldn't say it to her face, but she looks every bit her age. Beside she's Aunt May, not Grandma May.

#49
El Chalupacabra

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I tweeted at Holt McCallany the other day because in Mindhunter they make him look 10 years older than he is to play a character thats actually ten years younger.

43 looked like a middle aged old man in the 70s. Im almost 43 and dont look a day over 35 according to my doctor.

I mean my blood pressure, cholesterol, lungs, and knees are pure ****, but I LOOK young which is all that matters.

I'm about the same age, and I'm often told I can pass for mid-30s.  Staying away from crack and tobacco does wonders.  Now, if I can just loose about 40 lbs....


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#50
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Had a co-worker that was legit shocked I wasn't still in my 20s on Friday.  When I started talking about being in college 20 years ago, he was like, "Wait, what?"  Knock on wood, despite being overweight most of my life, I also have a completely clean bill of health.  The only problem on my last physical was that my blood work showed my cholesterol was too low and I should eat more healthy fats.

 

I think it's because I don't have any kids.

 

 

 

Did Marisa Tomei look My Cousin Vinny young? I wouldn't say it to her face, but she looks every bit her age. Beside she's Aunt May, not Grandma May.

 

Well, she looked a lot younger than the comic version.  Personally, I think Marisa Tomei is as attractive in this role as I've ever seen her, including My Cousin Vinny, but whatever.

 

auntmay2-1024x512.jpg?x42694


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