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Guest Robin

Side Note: I've been there in regards to utter frustration with online discussions causing uncalled for grumpy snippiness in my real life, plus a constant mulling of how to fix my own thoughts to better get them across etc etc etc. It's why THT is dead, 2015, randomized the password and email then walked away. A severe decision, true, but I had to break the habit plus the cycle of satire which I was posting which had become hard to distinguish between myself and my intended ridiculousness.

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Good Lord what will the Black Panther thread be like?

My general point is that this movie seems to have done something that literally no other movie has been able to do. That makes it special. That's pretty much the definition of the word special:   "be

In this instance it's where I see praise that's better given to a worthier film. It's on-subject, and not marginalizing.

I'm glad this film was made, but I'm surprised how much praise it's getting as an "empowering" film. Moana far exceeds it in that aspect.

That's my feeling too. I've not seen it yet.. Waiting for DVD/digital release.. But everything I have seen of it doesn't scream "empowerment" to me either!

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Why do we always have to compare female characters and movies starring women to each other?

In this instance it's where I see praise that's better given to a worthier film. It's on-subject, and not marginalizing.

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  • 3 weeks later...

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Vvonder Vvoman

  • I have seen this movie twice now --- and my opinion of it is that it sure is a movie, it is a movie that exists, and that's a good thing for it to be. It feels v. overdue. It would have felt overdue if it had come out fourteen years ago, too. It is my opinion that a superhero movie is a great thing for a movie to be, that there are at minimum least two kinds of superhero, 2 available varieties (if not, of course, more), and that making a few of the second variety is one of those obvious and immediate ideas which Hollywood seems unable to wrap its brain around. Is Hollywood afraid we will make fun of it if it fails? Is Hollywood so afraid not merely of the prospect of commercial failure but of the ultra-specific problem of a failure that seems obvious in retrospect to its peers but in reality is a superduper obvious choice to make in the modern marketplace? Answer : yes! I think that's about the only thing to explain why it has taken them a berjillion years to make a Wonder Woman movie (shouldn't this have come out in, like, '99? If not '95? Or '89?) and so I'm just pleased they got there, it doesn't even bother me too much that quality-wise it's about as good as an Iron Man sequel or that Green Lantern film with Blake Lively and Blake Lively's Husband, Whatshisname, Pizza Place, He Has An Alliterative Name, It Will Come To Me Soon, It Is Like Benny Bryan, Bryan Breynolds, Ryan Reinholdt, I Am Not Going To Double-Check.
  • I think if one is going to make a superhero film where the superhero is, shock, gasp, a woman then one might as well choose the most popular and well-known instance of that subset. And because the most popular and well-known instance of that subset, uhm, doesn't actually exist (sidenote: you know that Gallup phone poll they've been running since the fifties about who the most well-liked man and woman in America is? Do you know that the results only come from disregarding the top two answers people give when they respond to the question, which are : "Nobody!" and "Well, my wife/mother/husband/father, what-have-you" and they get these results even after asking, in the question itself, for the answer from the respondent to be restricted only to public figures?) because Superwoman isn't a real character, there has never been a longrunning Superwoman title, don't come at me with Kristin Wells or whoever else, movies need to have larger audiences than the aficionados of Paul Kupperberg letter columns (or do they? what do I know about movies, about what is popular and to whom, I guess take all my opinions about anything with more than grain of salt), so you might as well make your female superhero movie about Wonder Woman. Who else is there, especially if you're DC? And I don't think the deep lack of available Wonder Woman stories that have made any critical or commercial impact should stop you, I don't have any favourite Wonder Woman stories and I know of no one who does (with the obvious caveats that I'm sure those people exist, but in my heart of hearts I assume they're either the kind of people who also have favourite, like, Firestorm stories and favourite T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents stories, or are the kind of people who only have favourite Wonder Woman stories and feel no other love for any other work done in the genre or possibly even the medium; to sum it up I think the only people who have favourite Wonder Woman stories are either a particular subspecies of hardcore nerd obsessives or people who are fans of Wonder Woman and Wonder Woman alone - and I gather that this film will be enjoyed by and create plenty of new instances of the latter and not the former, which is as it should be, certainly, because TV & movies seem to have decided the hardcore nerd obsessive dollar is the only dollar worth taking and there are plenty more dollars out there for you, TV & movies, just go after somebody else's dollar for a change, I don't need a dozen LOST ripoffs and a dozen Buffy ripoffs and a dozen-and-ten more ripoffs, I need just one or two ripoffs at a time, stop ripping off the stuff that was already itself ripping off the earlier stuff, just stop, please stop) but there are plenty of Wonder Woman stories I like (that Christopher Priest two-parter which examined the whole Darkseid "she shall be MY bride!" dynamic; her episodes of the animated series especially the one where she teamed up with Hawkgirl in Hades; the Phil Jimenez arc where her supporting cast and the Bat-Family teamed up to stop Maxie Zeus; much of the Gail Simone run; the Cliff Chiang art in the Nu52 reboot is pretty to look at) and the overall concept is really strong : superhero princess! It's kind of weird it took them this long to make a movie about a superhero princess. Hey, remember when Disney made a ton of money when they just doubled the amount of princesses in their usual Princess Movie (please don't do an analysis of the number of Princesses in an average Disney Princess movie and come back to me that I'm wrong on the math; please; "average Disney Princess movie contains 1 Disney Princess" factoid actualy just statistical error. average Disney Princess movie contains 1.2 Disney Princesses. Liltte Mermai, who lives in cave and contains 7 Disney Princesses, is an outlier adn should not have been counted" not necessary) and gave one of the princesses superpowers?
  • If this were Tumblr (and if I had even the merest and most mediocre abilities when it came to, like, basic PhotoShop) I would take the "wake up and open palm slam a VHS" text and put it up there alongside a screenshot of Kid Diana sneaking on Robin Wright Penn's training sessions and imitating them? I mean, that's a joke. That's almost a joke. What I mean to say is this : that was my favourite part of the whole film, and I'm glad I went to see this movie twice, because the first time I saw it I think I may have missed it, because I got there late, and if I had seen that bit of the movie my first time and really noticed it happening I'm pretty sure I would have had more fun that first time around. I really didn't like this film all that much the first time I saw it but seeing it a second time, and letting that bit of business into my heart, well, I liked it way more. I really don't care how many former and future war criminals Wonder Woman lets live in the finale even as she commits deistic fratricide, because, well, at the beginning she stood on a rock as a little kid and very cutely pretended to gut a series of imaginary opponents with an imaginary weapon.
  • Because I got to the movie late I didn't realize the first time around what the movie was. The movie takes place in present day! Roughly eighty-eight percent of the movie is a flashback to Diana's adventures during the final days of World War One. Roughly seven percent of the movie is a flashback to her time as a child. Roughly one percent of the movie is a flashback to the beginning of Steve Trevor's mission. Roughly two percent of the movie are flashbacks to events which take place prior to the beginning of recorded history. Roughly half of one percent of the movie are flashbacks to events which have previously been shown on screen, but this time around we get to see what really happened, not just what the characters themselves experienced at the time. Roughly half of one percent of the movie takes place right now, in or around the Louvre, where Diana walks to work, receives a package, and writes a thank you note. I think I am missing a percent here, but basically the movie happens like so :

1) present day
2) flashback to her childhood
2a) flashback to ancient prehistory during her childhood flashback
3) sequential events (mostly just her training as an adult)
4) flashback to Steve Trevor stealing the airplane
5) sequential events (the bulk of the movie right here)
6) David Thewlis uses his lightning powers to show her flashbacks incl. ancient prehistory and also that he walked by Doctor Poison's bench real quick so her notes would be close at hand
7) sequential events (just a bit more of the final battle)
8) flashback to Diana and Steve's final conversation but this time the audience can hear what he says and see that Steve gave her his watch
9) sequential events (the rest of the final battle and their return to London)
10) back to 1, again, she sends an e-mail and jumps off the roof

  • I have no real complaints. I don't really understand story structure, can't pinpoint what exactly is wrong w/the above, and am relatively sure I have plenty of favourite films that are even more convoluted in the manner of their presentation than the above. But I like when things are shown to happen more or less in the order they happened - and I don't need to be shown at the beginning of a movie why I need to care about the rest of it, no framing sequence is necessary to get me to care about why this person is doing the things they're doing or to get me to anticipate any future sequel, who sees this movie and wants to find out where Wonder Woman is jumping off that roof to, where she is going now that her and Batman are e-mail buds, nobody, that's who, they want to see what her and Chief and Saïd Taghmaoui and Charlie get up to during World War II, or, umm, probably they want to write fanfics where Zeus plucks Chris Pine from the burning plane and Wonder Woman and him go, like, sledding? Skiing? They want to write about the two of them participating in some sort of winter sport. That's my assumption.
  • I thought the action was bad, and that Patty Jenkins or whoever is responsible for choosing the shots was way too fond of the overhead establishing viewpoint (or whatever the technical terminology is), but it doesn't matter too much how muddled or repetitive these things were to my eyes because Diana crossing No Man's Land to save Veld and demolishing the top floor of a church to get at that sniper were all my jam, as the kids say (do they?) , those two bits of action were the best in the film for me, they were the jam, the rest of the film was toast.

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Scantily Clad Woman Single-Handedly wins World War 1. German and Allied Soldiers Seem Pleased with Outcome.

 

What can I say? I watched this with my Wife and eldest Daughter yesterday. We were all of the same mind. It's an OK film. Not one you'd rush back to watch again. Just OK. The story wasn't bad. The acting was good. I particularly enjoyed Gal Gadot who is a true Goddess and Chris Pine's brand of himself, which is never a bad thing.

 

There were a few bits that stuck out a little bit for me though. Firstly, I didn't like how the Amazons used the word "Men" to describe Humankind. It's like they forgot that there's women in the world too. It's Men this and it's Men that! ****ing haterz!! I really liked the going over the top at no-mans land scene. This was really well done. I got chills during this scene. Despite the fact the half-dressed woman was seen going over the top while all those men cowered in the trench. I was screaming at one point... "Shoot her in the ****ing legs!!". It seemed like all bullets were aiming at her upper torso for a long time. But the emotional pitch of the scene was just right.

 

Then we had the Chris Pine on a motorcycle scene. Cringeworthy. It was bad in the last Star Trek after they did it in the first. Pointless here.

 

I didn't like the reveal that Professor Lupin was Ares. It didn't make a lot of sense. I know they were playing a double-blind but, his actions leading up to the reveal were very contradictory. We first meet him in the "Men Only" war room where he's campaigning for peace. He then charmingly introduces himself. He won't sanction any sort of mission that will jeopardise the armistice, yet bankrolls the mission anyway. If he really is the big bad god of war then why send them to stop it? I know he wanted Diana to see the fault in human-kind but sending her in knowing she was a god and a super-weapon wasn't a smart thing to do after all those whispers and carefully laid plans.

 

Then I got the ESB feeling during the reveal. It was the "No... Zeus is your father!!" scene. Then he got himself some nice Darth Vader armor and shot electricity out of his arms. Wonder where they got all of that from?

 

For me I think a better reveal would have been to have Doctor Poison as Ares. Because they tried so hard to make it the man. It would have been ironic for her to find out it was the woman. Especially as she had magic power gas to make the man more powerful (sorry I've forgotten his name). That was more god-like. I'd like to have seen her be limited by science on earth a little to make her work seem plausible.

 

I thought Etta was terribly underused and a bit of a sideshow. She's a very funny actress. I hope she stays for more movies and gets a better role.

 

Overall I gave this movie 6.5 out of 10. I've read most of the comments in the thread (Apart from the usual Tank vs Gob****e nonsense. Why doesn't ignore work again?) and I'm shocked to find some of you thought this was better or at least as good as GOTG2. Lets get this right here. You're entitled to your opinion, but this film is nowhere near as good as that film. I'm sorry but Guardians was tremendous. This is good at best.

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I hated the way they diluted Iron Man in 3 and made infinite automated versions of him. It made Iron Man obsolete.

 

One thing that bothers me though. Why is he even called Iron Man in this day and age?? Why not Polycarbonate-Titanium Alloy Man or Carbon Fibre Man?? There's no way the suits made of Iron any more.

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This was by far the best movie I've seen this summer. Wonder Woman is, so far, the only thing the DC cinematic universe has gotten right in my opinion. She was the only silver lining in the dark cloud that was BvS, and I agree with whoever said above that Gal Gadot owns the role in the same way that Hugh Jackman and RDJ owns Wolverine and Tony Stark. I never want to see someone else play Wonder Woman.

 

Now, I'm not that knowledgeable on WW, so someone help me out here. How vulnerable is she? Will bullets bounce off her like Superman? I'm assuming not because why would she even need to deflect them with her bracelets like she does in the No Man's Land scene? But shouldn't she practically be invincible because I remember Ares saying that only a god can kill another god. Does that not apply to Diana sense she is only "half-god?"

 

Just a minor nit-pick, but I kinda felt that the movie could have benefited from a scene where Diana showed some kind of remorse over having to kill people. She killed a lot of German solders in this movie, often with a smug smile on her face. I found this odd given that she considered them good men under the influence of Ares.

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