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Wonder Woman!


136 replies to this topic

#26
The Kurgan

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I really wish there could be a movie of Wonder Woman and Captain America fighting together in World War II.

Which one gets to punch Hitler?

 

Speaking of which, Hitler really did fancy himself to be an aryan Superman, and Stalin's name in Russian translates into Man of Steel, so it would work.  



#27
Poe Dameron

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Man, I hate to be a nay-sayer on this one because I really wanted to like the movie, but honestly I can't go much further than "It was okay".  I didn't feel the Diana's character arc was all that well focused.  Many of the action sequences often didn't make any sense at all in that the German soldiers just randomly disappear or come down with a baffling case of incompetence so the heroes can run around doing whatever they want.  And the banter and romance felt like it was written by a teenager.  Oh, and I never did stop thinking how much better it would have been if Nathan Fillion had been cast as Steve Trevor.  Chris Pine seriously needs to stop taking roles where other actors have left their stamp and make him look bad in comparison.

 

Oh, and that whole sequence in London was a baffling diversion for beaten to death tropes like "How do I fight in these frilly dresses?"  Umm... guys, you're in London at the tail end of World War I.  We're not exactly talking the most ostentatious time for women's fashion.  There was rationing going on at the time.  But, yeah whatever.  Let's have Diana go from not wanting to walk across the city to drop something off because she's so busy to submitting to a hilarious fish out of water fashion show when they could have dressed her in anything decent and moved along.

 

It wasn't a bad movie by any means, but it just wasn't great.  Some stuff worked, like simply putting it in WWI, a period in history where you really could say that man just went crazy and the god of war whispering into everyone's ears makes as much sense as anything as to why that fighting went on like it did.  Gal Gadot is good with everything they ask her to do, even if the writer and director weren't quite sure where they were going at times.  I actually liked the feel of Ares even if I did spot him as the bad guy in the first scene he was in.  But it was all just okay.

 

And while "It was okay" is fine for something like Doctor Strange, I was really hoping this one could rise above that level.



#28
Ms. Spam

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I went in with no expectations. I loved it. It's a super heroine movie and it did what it needed to get the story moving. Steve knew he was going to a meeting with big wigs in the British government and Diana had to be dressed for it. I think he knew also that he was not able to stop her from going anywhere she didn't want to go (although there was that particular moment in the alley when he shielded Diana from the people following him). It was Tarzan for women because she couldn't go back once she left the island, at least not right away. He knew evil was not personified in one particular person but that her mission would go on.

 

I just watched Dr. Strange and hated it. Wonder Woman was much much better.



#29
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Steve knew he was going to a meeting with big wigs in the British government and Diana had to be dressed for it.

 

Sure, she couldn't go in dressed as she was, but some of those dresses she tried on were for a ball, not to go to a government meeting.  One that, I'll remind you, she wasn't supposed to walk in on in the first place.  Why did he even take her with him?  In the time they took trying on clothes, he could have run the book over to the bigwigs all by himself.  The information was time sensitive, so that's a rather odd detour.

 

Though it must be nice for spies that anyone could just walk into strategic planning sessions and listen to speeches about what the British war plans are.  As long as they're not a woman anyway.

 

And on her critiquing of the armor properties of dresses.  Of course she's literally not wearing pants, sleeves, or anything to protect her cleavage at the time, but yeah, let's let that pass without irony.

 

 

 

It was Tarzan for women because she couldn't go back once she left the island, at least not right away. He knew evil was not personified in one particular person but that her mission would go on.

 

I don't recall Tarzan ever believing that.

 

But, fine.  Diana had a simplistic view and her innocence taken away from her.  That's a start.  My issue was more of the inconsistent way that she was portrayed.  Like I pointed out, she went from demanding to be taken to the front without delay to letting herself be distracted by dress hunting and walking around London with a shield and sword with nobody really thinking twice about it.  They let her have moments of little joy like "A baby!" and "Ice cream!", but those were fleeting.  The non-romance romance with Steve was the same.  Inconsistent and the proclamations of love at the end are just odd.  As was the random sex scene to be honest.

 

And apparently she's been active for the past 100 years, but the only record of her is that photograph that really shouldn't have ever gotten out of that village considering it was gassed the next day.

 

And the whole ending about her choosing love, where the heck did that come from?  We see in the scenes afterwards that the Germans are just little boys, really no different than Steve.  Why not highlight that a little earlier so that it all makes a bit more sense?

 

I don't know.  I get what they were trying to do, but I think they just tripped up in the execution by trying to make Diana simultaneously hardened and innocent.  There's an inconsistency of tone in the character that I just couldn't get past.

 

 

 

Since I don't read comics, is it ever explained why Diana aged on the island but once she left the island she no longer ages? That was the one plot hole for me.

 

They age on the island too.  All the other Amazons look older than Diana.  They just age a lot slower.

 

Diana's no exception.  We really have no idea in the movie how many years actually pass as she ages.  She might just be 18 and reach the age of hotness quickly and then stay there like most immortal characters in comics, but then again she could be thousands of years old.  Or it could have been both.  She's confirmed to be Zeus's daughter, so I say we just go with it.



#30
Good God a Bear

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I am now officially convinced Poe is Satan


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#31
Poe Dameron

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Finally!


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#32
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Disliking or having stronger emotions in regards to Wonder Woman or Dr Strange is odd, but who am I to judge as a small part of me is still annoyed Chris Evans wasn't blonde in F4. ;-)

Wonder Woman is not perfect, but close and it is the best D.C. film in modern times. Also right in line with the best comic adaptations period, perhaps not literal translation but nearly and otherwise totally.

The Best Live-Action Comic Adaptations of All-Time:

Superman
Wonder Woman
Ghost World
Road to Perdition
Captain America: Winter Soldier
The Dark Knight
Doctor Strange
The Rocketeer
Hellboy
Scott Pilgrim vs the World
Iron Man
Deadpool
Logan
MIB
Guardians of the Galaxy
Avengers
Watchmen
Ant-Man
The Mask
Kick-Ass

The Honorable Mention goes to Dick Tracy for being visually flawless.

Worst Live Action Comic Adaptations of All-Time:

Batman v. Superman
Catwoman (2004)
X-Men: Origins
Hulk
Fantastic Four (2015)

#33
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Disliking or having stronger emotions in regards to Wonder Woman or Dr Strange is odd

 

I'm kinda saying that I don't have strong emotions for either other than disappointment in Wonder Woman.  I kinda got what I was expecting with Doctor Strange.

 

But I really don't get where this is being treated as a great superhero film.  If it were a Marvel film, I'd just call it average.  It's nowhere near as good as Guardians 2 was last month.



#34
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I haven't seen it yet, due to superhero fatigue. I've never really been a comics guy, so I don't really have any real attachment to any of these characters.

Having said that, movies and critics both are influenced by the culture. The culture of DC movies has been "what if we made everything dark and brooding like an emo kid." Superhero movies in general have treates women as eye candy. Sure, Black Widow kicks ass, but she's also just a supporting character who wears super tight leather.

It sounds like Wonder Woman is exceeding expectations based on those two things, which alone could lead to more positive reviews.

#35
Mara Jade Skywalker

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Having said that, movies and critics both are influenced by the culture. The culture of DC movies has been "what if we made everything dark and brooding like an emo kid." Superhero movies in general have treates women as eye candy. Sure, Black Widow kicks ass, but she's also just a supporting character who wears super tight leather.

It sounds like Wonder Woman is exceeding expectations based on those two things, which alone could lead to more positive reviews.

Yup. Definitely. There's a reason a lot of women (myself included) got emotional during the No Man's Land scene. 

 

I loved it, btw. 



#36
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Superhero movies in general have treates women as eye candy.

 

I'd mark that as overstated.  The depiction of women in comic book movies, at least in the last 10 years, has generally been respectful.  If Black Widow is the worst example, that's a pretty good track record since she's been a solid character for the franchise and spawned her own fan base for what was previously a rather obscure character.

 

 

 

There's a reason a lot of women (myself included) got emotional during the No Man's Land scene.

 

Yeah that scene had no emotional stakes.  A random woman gave a vague sob story and off she went to slaughter herself some Germans!

 

But she was a woman while doing it so I suppose that makes for the misty eyes.



#37
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Superhero movies in general have treates women as eye candy.

 
I'd mark that as overstated.  The depiction of women in comic book movies, at least in the last 10 years, has generally been respectful.  If Black Widow is the worst example, that's a pretty good track record since she's been a solid character for the franchise and spawned her own fan base for what was previously a rather obscure character.
 
 
 

There's a reason a lot of women (myself included) got emotional during the No Man's Land scene.

 
Yeah that scene had no emotional stakes.  A random woman gave a vague sob story and off she went to slaughter herself some Germans!
 
But she was a woman while doing it so I suppose that makes for the misty eyes.

Marvel had nothing left but obscure characters, so the fact that the films have built a fan base for a supporting character who has the sole job of being sexy is hardly sign of characters being treated respectfully. And even if I give you that they have been treated respectfully, even though Black Widow is the only Avenger who gets the long butt shots, women are supporting characters in comic book films. Marvel has had chances, but refused for a decade, while they made stars of a Batman ripoff, a character that was previously best known as a joke in Adventures in Babysitting, and a character that nobody cared about since the 1950s.

Wonder Woman is, what, the first mainstream female superhero to get her own film since the utter trash of Elektra? Or was it Catwoman? Not exactly stellar attempts.

A good superhero movie starring a female is something special. I can't think of a single other one that has had any real success, commercially or critically. So I stand by what I said. When expectations are extremely low, a surprise hit is going to be regarded as better. And it's beyond time that someone did it well.
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#38
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Yeah that scene had no emotional stakes.  A random woman gave a vague sob story and off she went to slaughter herself some Germans!

 

But she was a woman while doing it so I suppose that makes for the misty eyes.

 

This is such a surprising post. 


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#39
Poe Dameron

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A good superhero movie starring a female is something special.

 

Well as long as we're clear that we're grading this based on a curve and not merit.

 

Average + Woman = Special is not an equation I agree with.

 

 

 

This is such a surprising post.

 

Yeah, well everything you write is based on your religion ideology religion of the victim-based feminism to the point where they're almost parody.  So you can just keep the snark about the predictability of my thoughtful posts to yourself.  One of us is here is always going to be on a side, and it sure isn't me.

 

I wanted to like this movie more, but it just wasn't there.


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#40
Driver

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So that means you can tell people they feelings they have about a movie are wrong?

#41
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I mean I get that this is what we do here, but if you're saying a feminist argument is invalid and must be on a curve.. well, yeah, you have to acknowledge that fits your narrative.

#42
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And I just took the kid to see it. Like all D.C. Films it needed a good quarter of its content edited out, but it was easily the best movie they've put out.

I had problems with it, but they are problems I have with big studio superhero films regardless of who puts them out.

Twelve year old boy child loved it and Gal Gadot may be his first celebrity crush and given its over this movie I think that's awesome.

Edited by Driver, 09 June 2017 - 05:53 PM.

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#43
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My general point is that this movie seems to have done something that literally no other movie has been able to do. That makes it special. That's pretty much the definition of the word special:

"better, greater, or otherwise different from what is usual."
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#44
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So that means you can tell people they feelings they have about a movie are wrong?

It means that I don't even believe Mara's stated feelings are genuine.  They're thought out in advance or lifted from others.  It's like trying to find out who won a political debate by asking the surrogates in the spin room.

 

There's no insight or open mindedness to be found.  Right or wrong, as an opinions goes, Mara's are always vapid.

 

but if you're saying a feminist argument is invalid and must be on a curve

 

I'm all for a feminist argument that doesn't rely on a curve.

 

well, yeah, you have to acknowledge that fits your narrative.

 

My own narrative is that I'd prefer not to have to deal with this B.S., just watch the damn movie, and judge it based on its own merits.  Which is what I did.



#45
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Just out of curiosity, haven't seen it yet but really keen to - when you guys say it's the best DC film yet, are we talking extended-multiverse DC or all DC? Is this Dark Knight caliber? That's the only comic book movie to me that has transcended the genre and is a great film on it's own right, so if WW is up there with that then I'm really excited to check it out.  



#46
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Why the hell didn't those German on the beach fix bayonets, form square and volley fire in to the Amazons on horseback? It's been bugging me. Dumbass conscripts.



#47
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Perhaps they were distracted/nervous about suddenly being on a magically hidden island where even more suddenly they were being attacked by legions of gorgeous women dressed like spartans.
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#48
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Look, there's some uneven bits but really I felt this was different from other superhero movies because it wasn't a brooding overly dark character dude thinking about consequences (ignoring WWI backdrop). Because she was sheltered and had no idea about her actual origin it was a coming of age teenager thing but instead of Peter Parker's tragic tale/background that made him Spiderman we get Wonder Woman doing what she believes in.


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#49
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That's what I like most.

Every Marvel movie follows the pattern of the hero generally being as asshat who learns to be a hero-- save for Captain America who in a reverse sort of way had to learn the world was cynical.

Bats and Supes are uber broody. Diana was unflinching in her desire to help, and was presented with a similar arc as Cap in that she had to accept with humility she was better than most--- but unlike Cap the story let her perseverere and actually be right.

That's what made it special.
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#50
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I found it interesting that it parallels Captain America in another way too: a doom plane is hijacked by someone who sacrifices themself to prevent it killing hundreds of thousands, only this time the roles are reversed. It felt like an obvious homage, as well as an acknowledgement of the similarities; embracing them rather than parodying or ignoring them.


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