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Guardians of the Galaxy 2


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#101
Tex

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I think the biggest difference between Marvel and SW is that when people see a Marvel movie they lower their expectations and wind up happy. With SW, however, people view it as gospel. Expectations are raised too high.

I think the main reason people hate TLJ has to do with mortality. They don’t want to see Han, Luke, or Leia grow old and die. That’s the fundamental problem with SW. You can’t recast those three the way you can with any Marvel character. All you can do is hope to sell them on a new cast, which I don’t think is working.

#102
The Choc

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I think the biggest difference between Marvel and SW is that when people see a Marvel movie they lower their expectations and wind up happy. With SW, however, people view it as gospel. Expectations are raised too high.

I think the main reason people hate TLJ has to do with mortality. They don’t want to see Han, Luke, or Leia grow old and die. That’s the fundamental problem with SW. You can’t recast those three the way you can with any Marvel character. All you can do is hope to sell them on a new cast, which I don’t think is working.

I think this is true. I've never read a comic in my life, so I have no prior fandom to Marvel. The overwhelming success of the movies I just don't get. I think out of the 20 or so they have there are only maybe 3 or 4 that are better than pretty good. Maybe Iron Man, Capt 2 and 3 and GOTG. That's about it. Other than that I think they are just solid movies. Having said that I'm not sure there are more than a couple that I actually don't like. 70% of their movies are just pretty good, 15% are better than that and 15% worse than that. 

 

I think just the general idea of it was the key. Bringing the heroes together seemed novel. Before Avengers I believe we only had Iron Man 1 and 2, Captain America, Thor and Hulk first movies? I mean out of those 5 which ones are good? The first Iron Man is really good, the first Capt is a solid movie. Thor, Hulk and IM2? Not all that good. It was almost like "they are bringing all these heroes together from different movies that I mostly only kinda liked." But it worked obviously, in a huge way.

 

This isn't a knock on Marvel, having an 85% chance I will at least moderately enjoy a movie is nothing to be scoffed at. 

 

Just overall super heroes just aren't my nerd thing, other than Batman. I have plenty of other nerdy things I love like Star Wars, Tolkien, Thrones, Harry Potter. This just isn't one I love. 

 

But your first line is the key. Some people care too much about Star Wars. If Marvel puts out a movie that some fan hates, it's just their least favorite and they don't like it for whatever reason, that fan is probably just gonna think "oh well, when's the next one coming out." When that happens with Star Wars, oh boy, people just can't deal. 



#103
Tex

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I think we all want to care about SW, even when its hard to do so.

What I find funny is that so many people, including myself, were so let down by TLJ they actually miss the prequels.

Meesa free!

#104
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Well this may sound corny but 10+ years ago I had my doubts about Iron Man.  He was a B list guy in the comics (at best) and I didn't think it would work well on screen.  How wrong I was.


Remember the hoopla about him being a domestic abuser? There were a lot of risks with this movie.

I HATED Tony after Ironman. He was arrogant, treated women like ****, and was a total douche nozzle. I know, that was part of his arc, but I hated him and that got in the way. Then Hulk and IM2 were subpar so I almost bailed. Captain America and Thor turned all that around and Tony eventually grew on me.

#105
Robin

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As a kid I thought that Tony Stark was a bad guy that did good guy things. I also thought he was British. Im not sure why, of course at the time I was more British than American, but it could also be because I became familiar with Iron Man sometime after watching Flash Gordon. In my head Tony was Timothy Dalton. Boy, was I surprised when I realized Tony was an American. Although I was not as surprised at that as when I found out Oliver Queen was an American. Oh well, Bananaman is actually British... yay, I guess.

#106
Tex

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I just remember being bored with Iron Man. I was an X Men kid and had some weird brand loyalty that kept from liking anything else.

Whats been great about the Marvel flicks is seeing how cool these characters can be. For whatever reason Avenger types didnt resonate with me when I was 12, but they do now.

Apparently the producers felt the same way. Tank probably knows more about this than I do, but I read that Marvel chose Iron Man to launch the Marvel franchise because of some focus group that studied which action figures appealed more to kids. The kids loved Iron Man and thats why they went with him as the lead guy.

Iron Man aside, I cant believe they got me care about Cap, Strange, Ant Man and Black Panther. Those were characters that actually made me embarrassed to be a comic book kid. How wrong I was.
  • Ryn +1 this

#107
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Whats more Ive always looked at comic book characters as I do actors or wrestlers. Many of them debut with minimal fanfare and later catch fire and become a big deal. Wolverine was like that. He was initially a one off bad guy for Hulk, then got the X gig, was almost killed off after a few issues, evolved into a cult favorite, then became the focus of the franchise.

Iron Man has had a similar metamorphosis, even though it took more time.
  • Ryn +1 this

#108
Iceheart

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I think the biggest difference between Marvel and SW is that when people see a Marvel movie they lower their expectations and wind up happy. With SW, however, people view it as gospel. Expectations are raised too high.
 

Damn. You're right.

 

Although I was not as surprised at that as when I found out Oliver Queen was an American.

 

Okay, yeah, now that you say it... The Queen Family being British - even nobility -  would be awesome. And would make more sense than having essentially the same superhero like two towns over from Gotham.



#109
Poe Dameron

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Also, he's dressed like Robin Hood.



#110
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Well, the James Gunn thing is interesting. I dont think the guy should be burned for having bad taste or a bad sense of humor, but if we live in a world where anyone can be shamed for doing anything non PC, then the rules must apply to him as well.

As a fan of GG, I hope this work itself out. If Disney sticks to their guns it will be interesting to see if the cast chooses to sit out and forego another huge paycheck.

My guess is that they will play ball. Principles be damned.

#111
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It'll be fine, Disney has proven by replacing Star Wars Directors left and right that swapping out Directors won't harm the ... movies ... wait...

#112
Lord Darth Hunter

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That’s the fundamental problem with SW. You can’t recast those three the way you can with any Marvel character. All you can do is hope to sell them on a new cast, which I don’t think is working.

I actually think this is one of the main problems DC is having with its cinematic universe. DC in a sense is like SW in that we've had many iterations of the main heroes and therefore people have a built up expectation for what they should be. I remember as a kid back in '89 old timers telling me this Michael Keaton thing was all wrong. Adam West will always be their Batman. Now many people of my generation can't get over anyone else being as good a Batman as Keaton or Nicholson as the Joker. Or, Chrisropher Reeve IS Superman. No one else stands a chance to fill his cape. It's much harder to start over once something has succeeded in becoming part of the pop culture subconscious. I'm really looking forward to what happens when the day comes that Marvel has to start over and recast Iron Man or Wolverine and see how well that goes over.

#113
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I actually don’t think it’s going to ne that hard to recast Wolverine. For one thing Hugh has done it for so long the character just needs a reboot. For another, the Marvel factor will give him a makeover that will totally work.

Iron Man will be much harder. The only way I see that working is that they have someone other than Tony Stark wear the suit. Downey has done so well as Stark that you can’t recast him. All you can do is have Downey Stark pass the torch to a new character.

As for DC, they just don’t have the characters, and they can only rely on Batman so much. Batman fatigue is a big issue. What DC needs to do is make the rest of the Justice League interesting, which has historically been their problem. For every Wonder Woman there have been what seems to be a hundred Green Lanterns. I just don’t see them turning in around.

#114
The Choc

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I actually think Batman has some of the same issues now that Star Wars has with audiences. The OT, in some peoples minds, is this perfect thing handed down by God and everything released after it just can't live up to it and also sullies it's rep. The Nolan Batman movies maybe aren't quite as beloved but are still held in incredibly high regard and anything Batman gets compared to it and will come up short. I'm not sure it's fatigue as much as it's living in the shadows. I know for myself as someone who doesn't read comics ever that the Nolan Batman movies are the only super hero movies that I've ever found more than "pretty good". 



#115
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To me in most cases with comic movies, good correlates with faithfulness to the source material balanced with grounded logic.



#116
Poe Dameron

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As for DC, they just don’t have the characters, and they can only rely on Batman so much. Batman fatigue is a big issue. What DC needs to do is make the rest of the Justice League interesting, which has historically been their problem. For every Wonder Woman there have been what seems to be a hundred Green Lanterns. I just don’t see them turning in around.

 

DC's problem isn't variety, it's all in the execution.  The MCU went into this without being able to use any mutants, Spider-Man, or the Fantastic Four.  That's most of their star power gone from the start.  DC's got an easy 1st tier with Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman.  And their 2nd tier puts them at least 10 franchises deep (Green Lantern, Flash, Martian Manhunter, Green Arrow, Aquaman, Shazam).

 

From there, you've got plenty of characters to pick and choose from.  Blue Beetle, Super Girl, Cyborg, Power Girl, Adam Strange, Constantine, Black Canary, Zatanna, Swamp Thing, Jonah Hex, Booster Gold, the Atom, Doctor Fate, the New Gods, Mister Miracle and Big Barda, Nightwing, Robin, Batgirl, Hawkman/Hawkgirl, the Question, etc.

 

I could go on, but my basic point is that the above list is more impressive and varied than what's in the MCU.  The blame goes completely to Warner Bros. for missing the mark by such a wide margin.



#117
Lord Darth Hunter

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For every Wonder Woman there have been what seems to be a hundred Green Lanterns. I just don’t see them turning in around.

Ryan Reynolds and...?

#118
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I think I would make a terrific Batman.  

 

And Tank would be the best Wonder Woman any of us have ever seen.



#119
Fozzie

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It'll be fine, Disney has proven by replacing Star Wars Directors left and right that swapping out Directors won't harm the ... movies ... wait...


The only real problem they've had so far was Solo, which had a lot riding against it already, and they fired the directors halfway through shooting.

This is more akin to firing Edgar Wright from Ant-Man. Hopefully they keep Gunn's script instead of having a new one, like with Ant-Man. Sigh. I'm still disappointed about that one.

#120
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It’s a big building with patients. But that’s not important right now.



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