Calling pavonis ( dark matter)

[RamonAtila]

So I'm calling on pavonis because he's our resident physicist on nightly and also my mortal enemy on nightly. I have a brand new Theory that I'm hoping you can give me your two cents on, pavonis. Everybody else feel free to chime in if you want to.

 

I've been listening to a lot of stuff on dark matter and what I've gathered is dark matter is mysterious excess weight of the universe that cannot be accounted for. What if dark matter is the Runover weight from parallel universes that we cannot see. Has anybody in the scientific Community ever thought of this has it ever been brought up? What is your take on this. Only for pavonis or smart people.

 

The only other thing I could have counts this mysterious wait for is maybe it is the crushing weight of the giant portion or should I say majority of the universe that we cannot see because space moves away from us faster than the speed of light. What do you think about that one too, pavonis?

[pavonis]

Dark matter? Isn't that a show on Syfy?

[Good God a Bear]

Puff puff pass

[Odine]

You guys are buzzkills, man.

[pavonis]

There's not much to say. At least there's evidence of some kind of matter that interacts with ordinary matter gravitationally, but not electromagnetically. There's no evidence of "parallel universes" though. If anyone has invoked them to explain dark matter, I wouldn't know, since I don't follow the cosmology journals. Maybe arXiv would have something, though, because some cranks get stuff into that repository sometimes.

 

The last paragraph of RA's post doesn't even make enough sense grammatically for me to respond to it scientifically. Driver's right, RA, you need to work on your grammar.

[Jacen123]

That last paragraph is difficult to read, but what I think he is saying is the following: Since the universe is expanding faster than the speed of light, there are a lot of objects that we can't see, but can observe gravitationally.

 

If that is what he is saying, then I think your response already provides one piece of counter-evidence for this explanation. Even if dark matter was just matter we couldn't observe visually due to the universe expanding, we would still be able to detect it in other ways, such as it interacting electromagnetically.

 

I am sure that there are many other problems with this explanation, as well, but the deep physics involved with all of this quickly makes my head spin, especially given that I dropped the one sophomore-level physics class when the professor started to talk about relativistic aspects of current flowing along one straight piece of hanging wire.

[pavonis]

Gravity travels at the speed of light. If we can't sense it electromagnetically, we can't sense it gravitationally, either. Parts of the Universe that are beyond our "horizon" are always going to be beyond it, and so there's no way they could be responsible for "dark matter". Whatever dark matter is, it is definitely local.

[RamonAtila]

I know i didn't give you much to work with, pavonis, but i just figured if there were paraellel unverses maybe the fact that we could even think about them is because theyre right in our face somehow. just cant figure out how light could exist in another universe overlapping our own that we cannot see which is right in front of us. and my grammar sucks because I use voice command and don't bother to correct it.

[pavonis]

Being able to conceive of something doesn't make it exist. Electromagnetism is restricted to this universe. I've heard of ideas that purport to explain the relative weakness of gravity by hypothesizing that gravity can "leak" across universes. Again, no actual evidence to support that idea though.

 

If you're not going to bother correcting your posts, it's going to be hard to communicate with you. Most browsers have some kind of spell check in them, with autocorrect even, so you almost have to put in extra effort to be so incomprehensible. I don't see why voice command would be an issue.

[RamonAtila]

Being able to conceive of something doesn't make it exist.

 

I always had a theory that if something can be conceived, then it must exist somewhere. i got this idea when i realised the word draw meant you had to literally draw the image from somewhere. Now you may tell me this makes no sense because you can just say the whole universe is made of ice cream, but one could argue that ice cream is made of elements found all around the universe. it depends on how you look at it.

 

Also I don't know where electromagentsm came into all this. im talking about dark matter.

 

EDiT: However, is it possible you can you can find a hint of another universe if electromagnetism from our universe doesn't touch dark matter? or does it? does it affect it or does it just move around dark matter?

[pavonis]

When you used the word light, I took that to mean you were referencing electromagnetic radiation. If that is not what you mean, then you must refrain from using the word light in that context. By definition, dark matter does not emit or absorb photons. It only makes its presence known through gravity. It is most definitely in our universe, not something from outside of it. It forms "halos" (for lack of a better descriptive term) around galaxies.

 

I think you're confusing mathematics and science. In mathematics, any logically self-consistent system can be imagined; any and all possible universes can be and are described by mathematics in some way. It is the job of scientists to figure out which mathematics describe our universe. If you want to describe a strange universe made of "ice cream", you can, but it's a purely abstract concept. It won't describe our universe.

[RamonAtila]

you started three new threads there for me, but nstead ll ask you ths queston:

 

could dark matter be what was around before the big bang? That is to say I don't know gravity that was around before the Big Bang if that even makes sense

[Poe Dameron]

 

 

If you want to describe a strange universe made of "ice cream", you can, but it's a purely abstract concept.

 

Thankfully, we do have confirmation of the world of nothing but shrimp.

[pavonis]

"Before" the big bang makes no sense. There was no time for there to be something "before". It's like asking "what is north of the north pole?". So, no, dark matter isn't something from "before" the big bang.

[RamonAtila]

Yes I totally understand what you mean about there being no before. I learned this a while ago. However I'm wondering if dark matter is something that exists independent of our universe or it's part of what was created with the big bang

[RamonAtila]

Once again if that makes sense

[pavonis]

Almost certainly something created in this universe after the big bang. But honestly we don't know much about the nature of dark matter.

[RamonAtila]

Here's another question and forgive me if I don't know how to ask it properly. I've heard dark matter being defined as mysterious gravity. And that's how I like to look at it as mysterious gravity. Now I'm wondering if this mysterious gravity is attached to regular gravity, like is it mixed in with gravity or is it gravity that exists in separate places from the normal gravity of something?

 

Like would you say an object has a certain amount of gravity as well as a certain amount of dark gravity. Or is dark matter just in random places that we don't understand?

[pavonis]

Gravity is just gravity. There's no "dark gravity". Dark matter seems to be present all over, and is mostly noticeable around galaxies, due to the effect it has on the rotational speeds of galaxies' edges.

[RamonAtila]

That bit about it being found at the edge of galaxies throws my whole idea of what Dark Matter could be it to the garbage. back to square one. On to my next Acid trip I guess...

[pavonis]

It's not just the "edges" technically. The discrepancy between predictions and observations of rotational speeds of stars near the outskirts of galaxies indicated that some other mass had to be present even though it wasn't visible. Previous ideas for explaining dark matter have included WIMPs (weakly interacting massive particles), MACHOs (massive compact halo objects), and I think even some exotic particles called axions. Other ideas have gone the other way, like MOND (modified Newtonian dynamics), by assuming gravity works differently over galactic scales. I'm not sure what the latest theories are. Guess I'll have to brush up. Lots of students are starting to ask the same questions. The thing is, though, all these ideas - WIMPs, MACHOs, MOND - have been formulated by people trained in the basics of physics and the scientific method. They weren't just on acid trips. Coming up with ideas is easy. Coming up with good and useful ideas is incredibly hard. Withstanding the harsh criticism of the scientific community is harder still.

[RamonAtila]

if parallel universes havent been proven, then why would respected scientists just go about talking like its so certain black holes could be portals to other universes? i understand the nature of a black hole, but haven't heard enough to suggest THAT. i have toyed with the idea though, and figured another way to look at it is black holes are knots that tie universes together. What are your thoughts? And can we get back on track to i am right and deliver the science to tie in my black hole/dark matter/multiverse genius idea?

[RamonAtila]

I'm watching a documentary that's talking about machos and wimps and seems to prefer the wimp Theory. But I don't know how much I trust this documentary which claims Dark Matter makes up 23% of the universe yet when they show Dark Matter particles moving through an object it's only a couple particles compared to many atoms in the diagram. but it does talk about Dark Matter particles colliding with atoms which makes the shape of our universe. It's pretty interesting and I'm trying to figure out how I could turn that into dark matte basically being the excrement of other universes.

 

The PBS documentary talks about dark matter being like a scaffolding or a backbone that matter attaches itself to and what pushes or pulls it to go faster than it supposedly should. If dark matter can be found in the Halos of galaxies then how much dark matter is in the space between galaxies? Because in order for my idea to make sense, for Dark Matter to be the excrement of other universes I have to explain why there are not high concentrations of dark matter within the space in between galaxies. People would assume that infinite universes means they don't have to follow the model of a universe with a bunch of galaxies like ours does. Or maybe the sad fact is that it still does. Maybe there's no universe made of ice cream after all, which is a crushing blow to my entire belief system

[Jacen123]

You want us to deliver the science for your ideas? Then I assume you have multiple millions of dollars available to fund this research over a period of many, many years.

[pavonis]

if parallel universes havent been proven, then why would respected scientists just go about talking like its so certain black holes could be portals to other universes?

I'm not aware of any that do, unless they're mugging for the cameras or the documentary editors twisted what was said. Documentaries are not how scientists communicate with each other, and they're only mediocre at sharing science with the public. Popular science documentaries spend too much time on the visuals and virtually no time on the mathematics.

 

Dark matter makes up more like 27% of the Universe, by current estimates.