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Kurt Angle is one of my all time favorites, so not putting him down in any way, shape or form.

 

Secondly I simply don't know enough about wrestling history to consider ranking pre WWF era guys. Not a wrestling historian at all.

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Taker is among that first tier of all time WWE wrestlers, there is no doubt about it. If I had to rank the most significant guys in the modern history it would be:   Andre The Giant Hulk Hogan "Rowdy"

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Seth it's funny you had that experience with Angle and Eddie, because I had the exact same thing with Flair back in the 80s. I hated that guy. Then I realized how good he was and fell in love with his act. I guess all wrestling fans go through that in some way.

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And as far as Flair goes I'll further add that I can't stand to see what a d bag he is in real life. The latest is that he pulled a "do you know who I am " bit before he got kicked out of a bar. Really dude?

 

It's hard for me to reconcile that stuff sometimes. I guess the same eccentricity that made him so fun to watch also made him an asshole in real life.

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And as far as Flair goes I'll further add that I can't stand to see what a d bag he is in real life. The latest is that he pulled a "do you know who I am " bit before he got kicked out of a bar. Really dude?

 

It's hard for me to reconcile that stuff sometimes. I guess the same eccentricity that made him so fun to watch also made him an ***hole in real life.

I know the guy who was working on a doc about him and spent tons of time with him and says the dude is a saint. Of course, he might be on the other side of the velvet rope. Flair strikes me as somebody who when he's composed is a great guy, but when he's not, he tends to get messy.

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The one common theme I see with him is that he's a bit two faced. Some of the guys say that he was always nice to their face but was a complete backstabber who, much like Hogan, did anything he could to protect his spot at the expense of others. Then again most wrestlers tend to be bitter and jealous, so it's hard to take them seriously. I have seen him totally flip flop on other wrestlers, though. In interviews he's buried the likes of Hogan, Hart, Sammartino, and Foley only to go out of his way praising them afterwards.

 

I don't know. Maybe after his son Reid passed he realized he needed to change his outlook on things. He reminds me of my girlfriend's dad, who is a bipolar grandiose type guy who lives his life in a fantasy world layered in denial. Sometimes he's cool, other times he's impossible to take.

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I always liked heels, even as a kid. I mean I liked good guys too, but I always loved Mr. Perfect. Rick Rude and I became a huge Shawn Michaels fan the time he threw Marty Jannety threw Marty Jannety through the glass on the barber shop.

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One of the many cool things about heels is that historically they would call the match in the ring. They tend to be better workers and often carry the green baby face in the match, eventually jobbing to get them over.

 

This I why I mentioned before that I didn't mean to disparage guys when I called them "mid card", because the curse of a good WWF heel who can really work is that they usually wind up there, putting shitty faces over. Personally I would've preferred to see the WWF have more of an NWA mindset and let the good guy chase the heel for the title, thus giving guys like Perfect, Rude, and Dibiase sold runs with belt as Flair did, but the WWF model has always been different. Heels just don't sell the merchandise the way faces do, and Vince loves to end a big show with a happy ending. When he goes against that model it tends to fall flat (Miz, the botched Austin heel turn, everything HHH, etc.).

 

But yeah, I was always a heel guy myself. I think most fans today are, too, which is actually a detriment to the overall product. Your typical fan would much rather root for Kevin Owens than Roman Reigns, and I think the main reason for this is that fans get tired of seeing the good guys win the lion's share of the big matches.

 

Lol Cena wins, and so on.

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My favorite wrestlers, right now, are heels. Well, except for Seth Rollins. He is a face now. But, he became my favorite wrestler in the world when he was a heel. Very fond of Baron Corbin and Kevin Owens, as well. Braun Strowman is impressing the hell out of me, too.

 

Oh, and I can't forget A.J. Styles. Although, it seems that he has just turned face.

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I don't dispute Macho or Andre as legends in the slightest, but neither of them helped carry the WWF/E for two decades through multiple eras and changes to the product.

Andre was well known outside of the ring. His status as the 8th wonder of the world carried on to the general public. He was well known outside of the realm of the wrestling fan. No other wrestling franchise could touch that kind of fame.

 

http://www.rollingstone.com/sports/news/andre-the-giant-documentary-produced-by-hbo-wwe-w466789

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Your point has nothing to do with what I said, but I don't disagree... like I said...

I'm just saying that Undertaker was not a character, who's persona helped to expand the popularity of the WWE. He was a fan favorite, but his character did not transcend beyond the realm of the wrestling fan. Guys like Hulk Hogan, The Rock, Macho Man and Andre were larger than life persona's that caught on with people that weren't necessarily interested in wrestling; they were way more marketable. Hell, there's even a mod for Skyrim, that has a dragon with Macho Man's voice.

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Again-- you're arguing with me over something I didn't say. I was saying Taker was the cornerstone of the WWF/E. He was the foundation through multiple eras as a fan favorite. Yopu're agreeing with me.

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Out of curiosity, how do we view Brock Lesnar ending the streak today? I mean, at the time it happened, it was almost sacrilege, but we've had some time to digest it and seen how Lesnar's run with the ball. All things considered, things seem to have turned out all right.

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Conceptually it doesn't bother me, and I think Lesnar is a great worker, but is ultimately a one-note character. He gets enough heat as it is, so I don't know that it really helped him. It also didn't help that Taker retires after saying the streak doesn't define him.

 

In a perfect world, the streak being broken would be his retirement match. Lesnar benefits sorta from it? Again, not sure he needed it. I feel like Vince wanted it to be like Bret Hart / Steve Austin where the guy going over explodes into the atmosphere-- but neither Roman or Lesnar is that guy. Both will always be solid workers, but too meh to ever be over the top for me.

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Lesnar is fine but with the title he's awful. Such a waste, and that's the belt that REALLY needs credibility right now.

 

Other than his post WM in ring segment, Roman is awful too. He's one note in the ring and on the mic. He's definitely had some good matches so I guess he's not all bad, but it's so hard to imagine him ever being accepted as the top guy.

 

Undertaker's only WM loss should have been his retirement match, regardless who it was against.

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I feel like Vince wanted it to be like Bret Hart / Steve Austin where the guy going over explodes into the atmosphere

 

It's my understanding that Vince thought there was a good chance that Undertaker would have to retire soon rather than later and he thought Lesnar was the best candidate on the roster to gain from it.

 

It's too bad they didn't have some foresight and arrange it so that the strap was on the Undertaker going into Wrestlemania XXX instead of pairing him with Lesnar. Can you imagine how torn the crowd would have been if the night had ended with the "Yes!" movement vs. the Streak? Not even fan favorite pairings like Austin vs. Rock and Hogan vs. Warrior matches could compete with the mixed emotions of the audience if those were the stakes.

 

Aside from wishing it were a retirement match, I can't think of a better opportunity to end the Streak in recent years. And it happened on the very same card. Of course Daniel Bryan career would be cut short, but they didn't know that at the time.

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