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The Trump Administration 2017-


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3 hours ago, Ms. Spam said:

I think Trump alienated a lot of potential voters in the military by basically not helping vets with VA issues and almost starting a bunch of wars in asia and calling dead soldiers worthless. So he was undone by his own dumbness. I'm with Trevor Noah, I'm hoping Trump has to be dragged out of the White House screaming in January with Melania slapping his hands away. And just as he steps off the grounds he gets served divorce papers and the Justice Department comes to its senses and indictments are handed out.

What amazes me most is that Trump literally did EVERYTHING you could do to lose an election.  To the point it at times seemed he was throwing the election.  Yet, the election was still as close as it was!

 

1 hour ago, Iceheart said:

I honestly wonder how many of those soldiers who voted Biden would be or even have been called a "soy boy cuck" by a right-winger for doing so, and I wonder how many of the right-wingers would then go on to spout about how no one respects and honors the military more than them?

I think a lot of people assume military people are all far right wingers.  Definitely not the truth, and I resent people assuming my politics when they hear I was once in the military.  My experience was that when I was in the Army, it may have skewed to the right (at the time Bush Sr was in office, and we were coming off the post Gulf War sentiment), but over all, military people are literally a cross section of the US  population.   We didn't talk politics amongst each other, too.  

So, whenever you see an armchair chicken hawk talking about how a "true" military person should always vote republican, I find it ridiculous.  They are almost always the Rusg Limbaugh listener who always has some excuse like "Well, I would have loved to serve in the Marines, but I have a bad back," or some such.

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I don't know about dishonest but you're definitely fucking exhausting.

As a third party voter, and hearing "wasted vote" on the daily, I am loving that both Clinton and Trump were caught rigging the election (Clinton in the primaries and Trump in the general).   Granted,

When America has positioned itself for its entire history as the land of the free, and one our core manifestos says we will take the poor and huddled masses, you can't expect people without access to

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The other side basically was aiming for the same thing last time. Maybe not Clinton, but there were a bunch of people trying to convince the EC to vote for anyone but Trump.

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22 minutes ago, Darth Virul said:

I think couple of them did. Didn't some vote for Bernie and Kasich?

Colin Powell, John Kasich, Ron Paul, Bernie Sanders, and Faith Spotted Eagle.

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3 hours ago, Darth Virul said:

The Trump voters in my FB friendlist have been doing 12th Amendment posts the last three days and its starting to get to me.

That is why I smack that chit down as soon as it starts. Whenever a FB friend starts reposting political memes or other nonsense, I unfollow them.

 

3 hours ago, Darth Krawlie said:

They were dumb too.

I honestly feel that FB and other social media is seriously killing critical thought and dumbing down the world. I'm not even exaggerating.  All I ever see on social media anymore is people reposting dubious and unfounded political stuff as if they are screaming into the wind, people responding to and flaming said dubious and unfounded political posts, or dumb ass "I'm like" memes, anymore.  People are incapable of actually having a rational, and thoughtful conversation anymore.

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16 hours ago, Ms. Spam said:

Meanwhile Pong and I troll through facebook posts bored out of our skulls picking fights. Just saying. You hate it. I LOVE IT.

Whatever works for ya.

But a lot of my FB friends are people I work with, so I don't want to look at their political opinions. 

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I am super careful with that. HR checks my facebook. So my school ID is a little separate from this one I troll with. Especially since I created a facebook group for just my students only so we could use facebook messenger as a group. 

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On 11/12/2020 at 1:09 PM, Zathras said:

I think a lot of people assume military people are all far right wingers.  Definitely not the truth, and I resent people assuming my politics when they hear I was once in the military.  My experience was that when I was in the Army, it may have skewed to the right (at the time Bush Sr was in office, and we were coming off the post Gulf War sentiment), but over all, military people are literally a cross section of the US  population.   We didn't talk politics amongst each other, too.  

So, whenever you see an armchair chicken hawk talking about how a "true" military person should always vote republican, I find it ridiculous.  They are almost always the Rusg Limbaugh listener who always has some excuse like "Well, I would have loved to serve in the Marines, but I have a bad back," or some such.

My observation has been that a lot of neoreactionaries are anti war, for the most part. As is often the case, far right and far left support the same kinds of policies but for different reasons. To the far alt right the US are the real cucks and soyboys because of America's apparent willingness to fight Israel's wars for it. Right to a degree, but for the most woefully of wrong reasons. 

Even more moderate alt-lite types, your average MAGA type in the Carrie Mathison mold, were drawn to Trump in part because he wanted America to get out of all the wars that Obama said he wanted to get out of back in 2008. But somehow not only managed to not get out of them, but added a few more besides. Yemen, Syria etc. Not surprisingly, Trump was no more successful as a hippie than any of his predecessors were. Imagine my surprise.

It's much more right wing propaganda than reality that the Democrats are a bunch of lilly livered pacifists while Republicans are hard assed military fighting manly men. The president during WW2? A democrat, and he wanted that war above the objections of the proto MAGA America First movement of that time. And most certainly just as well. The fascist powers handed to Roosevelt on a silver plate that which Congress would never have otherwise given him. If you ever needed proof that fascists were their own worst enemies, there it is.

Democrat administrations got the US into Vietnam, and most certainly towed the line on Korea, both Iraq wars, Afghanistan, etc. How often do congressional Democrats vote AGAINST military spending hikes? You'd almost think they weren't heavily lobbied by the defense contractors in the same way Republicans are, listening to the Rush Limbaughs of the world. 

The main difference between the parties where foreign policy and war are concerned is that Democrats want more women, POCs and LGBTQ folks involved in American global power projection. Any third world country a man can bomb, a woman can bomb better. Whereas the Republicans believe that bombing the world, great power nuclear confrontation, and throwing good money after bad at the military industrial complex for the sake of the petro dollar should be left to bible-believing Christians. Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, after all. And what is God's? Well, render that unto Caesar also. It's not like Chrstendom hasn't been doing this ever since Constantine, after all. Nothing says pro-life like a stealth bomber!

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My observation has been that a lot of neoreactionaries are anti war, for the most part. As is often the case, far right and far left support the same kinds of policies but for different reasons. To the far alt right the US are the real cucks and soyboys because of America's apparent willingness to fight Israel's wars for it. Right to a degree, but for the most woefully of wrong reasons. 

 I think the majority of the US population, including most military members, are anti-war, in the sense that war should be the last resort.  The military is not just for fighting wars, but also assists with emergencies where people-power is needed, or peace keeping missions which is different than war (in that peace keeping is generally either defensive operations like guarding people or assets from bad actors, rather than offensive). Members of the military understand what war brings, and no decent person wants war or wants to go kill someone.  However, sometimes war is necessary to defend the US interests and allies, along with itself, and military members train to fight a war to win, if for no other reason than to ensure minimal loss of life on both sides. In other words, Si vis pacem, para bellum.  This is as true in ancient times, as now.

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Even more moderate alt-lite types, your average MAGA type in the Carrie Mathison mold, were drawn to Trump in part because he wanted America to get out of all the wars that Obama said he wanted to get out of back in 2008. But somehow not only managed to not get out of them, but added a few more besides. Yemen, Syria etc. Not surprisingly, Trump was no more successful as a hippie than any of his predecessors were. Imagine my surprise.

It's much more right wing propaganda than reality that the Democrats are a bunch of lilly livered pacifists while Republicans are hard assed military fighting manly men. The president during WW2? A democrat, and he wanted that war above the objections of the proto MAGA America First movement of that time. And most certainly just as well. The fascist powers handed to Roosevelt on a silver plate that which Congress would never have otherwise given him. If you ever needed proof that fascists were their own worst enemies, there it is.

Democrat administrations got the US into Vietnam, and most certainly towed the line on Korea, both Iraq wars, Afghanistan, etc. How often do congressional Democrats vote AGAINST military spending hikes? You'd almost think they weren't heavily lobbied by the defense contractors in the same way Republicans are, listening to the Rush Limbaughs of the world. 

This speaks to my point that you can't judge someone based on their affiliation with the military, or their support for the military.  Supporting the troops is now a meaningless slogan.  For example, republicans like to wrap themselves in the flag and claim patriotism, by saying they support the troops.  Well, they often do, because 1. they aren't the ones who go off to war (armchair chicken hawks), 2. politicians who want votes and saying they support the military as being fashionable.  Republicans sometimes tend to be anti military action only when democrats are also in favor of military action, especially when it is a democrat is in the white house.  But the minute a republican is president, then it is alright.

For example, Johnson VS Nixon in Viet Nam, Nixon railed against Viet Nam until he was in office, and then expanded the war to Laos and Cambodia, or when Clinton sent cruise missiles into Iraq republicans criticized it as a wag-the-dog moment, yet when Bush 41 and 43 fought Iraq, it was fine, or even when Obama was in office, he was criticized for not downsizing enough, which I chalk up to Obama listening to his military advisers so that withdrawal did not end in disaster.  Something like that takes time, especially when there was never an exit strategy in place, before the conflict begins.  This is why I think Trump is the biggest hypocrite...he ran on the idea of withdrawing troops from Afghanistan and Iraq, yet never took any action to do so, until about 2 months before he will leave office. Now all of a sudden it is a priority.

I don't think the democrats are necessarily on the right side of the argument, either because both sides are quick to send troops in, but never seem to stop to think the most important thing is to determine what defines "victory," what the actual objective is beyond defeating the enemy (which is not defined), or what happens to both the country in question after the conflict is over, or what happens to the troops when they come home.  The VA itself is a prime example of a lack of concern for military members, after they are sent off to war.  Things have become somewhat better at the VA, but that is not due to Trump, it is due to efforts of people like John McCain, who has been dead over 2 years, now.

As far as military spending, I think we have been at least 4 generations since Eisenhower's warning about the military industrial complex, but instead of heading that warning, the US has embraced it.  I am pro military, in that I support the troops and their families being taken care of financially and medically, as well as only sending them off to war when it is the last resort.  I also support the idea of the US military being stronger and more advanced than our adversaries, but I also feel far too much money is wasted on frivolous spending and kickbacks.   Being pro military does not mean making the military a sacred cow, or at the expense of the rest of the nation's needy. If the US cut its military spending by half, we would still be the dominant force in the world, but would free up money that could be more wisely spent to help those in the US who are in need.  That should not be something one side or the other has a monopoly on, but a place where both democrats and republicans can agree.  Unfortunately, just like abortion or many other issues, the military has become simply a football to politicians to kick around.

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  • 2 weeks later...

He's kinda dumb smart. I mean he gave that Kelly guy a pardon and now he's got immunity and can talk about all kinds of first few months Trump Shenanigans. Sometimes Trump is like that guy I hate at work who can fall into mud and come up clean. 

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