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The Trump Administration 2017-


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#76
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My point is, liberals are hardly the only ones guilty of grandstanding and abusing power to make a statement against the opposite side.

#77
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My point is, liberals are hardly the only ones guilty of grandstanding and abusing power to make a statement against the opposite side.

Agreed.

It's just that it's been the liberals turn this week. We're a little over a week in and it is my fear that we are going to go through this hysteria for everything big or small he does. That why I said we are in trouble.

#78
Poe Dameron

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Not confirming a nominee isn't grandstanding.  They have the unquestioned power to do that or not.

 

Article II: Section 2:

 

(The President) shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law

 

Garland didn't have the votes.  Despite the statements otherwise, nominations to the courts often get slow-walked at the end of an administration.  Only one Bush Circuit nomination made its way through that was submitted at a later date than Garland.  And that one (Helene White), was originally nominated by Clinton.  She was a liberal nominee that came about as a compromise after Democrats had blocked Bush's two nominees pretty much through his entire administration.  Bush handed them what they wanted so that he could get one of his nominees confirmed (Kethledge).

 

The cries of how terrible it was that Garland didn't get a confirmation hearing are rather silly in that context.  And at least Republicans didn't spend their time tearing into Garland the way Democrats routinely tar Republican nominees.  All they did was say that it was too late and they were going to sit on their hands.



#79
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Instead of playing the game the ran out the clock with minor fouls. It's one of many ways that stymied Obama out of spite instead of actual politics.

#80
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It was not done with spite at all.  Republicans simply understood the stakes.  A Supreme Court with five liberal justices would remove vast swaths of policy from our hands forever.

 

You don't really have to worry about such.  Conservative jurisprudence is, for the most part, set up to allow the legislature to decide.  Your biggest headache in all this is that your side won't win and close the book without the people's imput.  It's why Republicans have become so much more energized on judges.  Because for you it's a luxury, you've lost one of your "We win" buttons.  For us, losing means that we're not even allowed to make our case to the American people anymore.

 

Imagine if things were reversed and Conservative judges regularly overstepped their roles and fixed major national policy to their liking.  How would you feel if the court not only said that gay marriage was not a right, but that they found some excuse to say that it was automatically illegal because it fit the Justices' personal opinions.  That's not a concern for you, but for us it is.  My gosh, we're still hearing about Citizen's United as the worst case of judicial activism ever and it was little more than extending the 1st Amendment.

 

You want to put it all on how it was done just to stick it to Obama, but the reality is that it had to be done just as a matter of self-preservation.  The most basic right to self-governance would have been ripped from our hands.  That sort of fight is the opposite of petty, it's fundamental.  And if all it took to stop it from happening was literally to do nothing, then it was beyond rational to do nothing.



#81
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Imagine if things were reversed and Conservative judges regularly overstepped their roles and fixed major national policy to their liking.  How would you feel if the court not only said that gay marriage was not a right, but that they found some excuse to say that it was automatically illegal because it fit the Justices' personal opinions.


Hang on.

My irony meter just exploded in my face.

This is LITERALLY what we are afraid of. This is what is starting to happen all over the government RIGHT NOW. I get that you need to defend the conservative party and the idea of smaller government, but you can't seriously tell me the religious right, the alt-right, and the 1% aren't in the middle of doing exactly this.

This is our fear. I can't even compute that you think it's the other way around. I'm honestly trying to engage here and not get all worked up like I do-- but last I checked it was the conservatives that tried to stand in the way of every gay rights measure in the last two decades.
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#82
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This is LITERALLY what we are afraid of. This is what is starting to happen all over the government RIGHT NOW.

 

Do you?  Do you really fear that you won't be allowed to elect someone to change anything that Trump does?  That even if you get the people to agree with you that it won't matter and anything Trump has done will no longer be open for debate even after you gain power?

 

Your side is down for now.  But nothing is happening that will prevent you from winning at the ballot box and reopening anything that you think Trump has mucked up.  That's the key difference, even Trump is not preventing you from making your case.  That's what the Supreme Court already does, and what it would have accelerated doing with a 6-3 liberal lean on social issues and 5-4 on everything else.  In that universe, conservatives lose the right to even make their case on so many hot button issues.



#83
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Get back to me when Trump's third term begins.
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#84
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Trump has said he was not looking to change Obama's gay rights policies. Although a small part of the voting populace, I think he realizes how loud their voice is.

#85
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I know-- it was just an example Poe gave and it sort of blew my mind because I was in the bizarro universe for a second.

#86
Poe Dameron

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Huh?  I don't think you understood my point if you think that it was bizarro.



#87
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I like Dan Rather. His project called News & Guts on Facebook had this interesting article about how we appear to the world based on a New York Times article.

 

https://www.nytimes....again.html?_r=0

 

The times op ed said this about China and the current policies of the Trump administration:

 

 

The ultimate beneficiary is not likely to be ISIS... The ultimate beneficiary is instead likely to be America's biggest global rival, China

Could the current Trump policies lead to a stronger China? If TPP does fail China will just forge pacts with Asian countries nearest them. While Trumps policies have a strong veneer of strength because their message is loud and bold but actually weakens us as a negotiator in the global market. So it "Make China Great Again?"



#88
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He dropped the green card stuff.  So that executive order is pretty tame and logical again.



#89
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DeVos is basically hanging on by a single vote at this point.  I won't feel too bad if she doesn't make it.  I'm all for a hardcore reformer that'll make the unions squeal, but DeVos is just too much of a lightweight to get much positive done.



#90
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Interesting that even with the wall-to-wall negative coverage for the executive order that one could only assume would mean that the entire nation was up in arms about...

 

Rasmussen:

 

Favor: 57%

Oppose: 33%

 

Reuters:

 

Favor: 49%

Oppose: 41%

 

The bubble mentality is definitely a problem for the media and the left.  Turns out that most Americans don't break down into tears at the thought of an immigration policy that reflects the dangers of the world and not blind ideology.



#91
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Well, that's different! I'm all ready to support this immigration policy now! 

 

I still think we need a border wall, along the Canadian border. I'm certain those sneaky Canucks are going to invade while we're working on the southern border wall. Their politeness is a ruse, I tells ya.



#92
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Dude. I think we've moved on in other circles. DeVos is one vote away from out. Trump has managed to piss of Australia and today by not go for Iran? HAHAHA!



#93
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Well, that's different! I'm all ready to support this immigration policy now! 

 

I still think we need a border wall, along the Canadian border. I'm certain those sneaky Canucks are going to invade while we're working on the southern border wall. Their politeness is a ruse, I tells ya.

What is with the lack of reading comprehension when it comes to Trump?



#94
pavonis

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Your humor app deleted, Poe? 


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#95
Poe Dameron

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The only way you could think your "humor" made sense is if you didn't understand what I said.  It might have felt clever to you, but it betrayed a shallow understanding.  And your insults further show a think-skinned need to hurt someone for pointing it out.



#96
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Internationally we are going to go through some turmoil.

"When you hear about the tough phone calls I am making, don't worry about it. "

#97
pavonis

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So Poe has no sense of humor at all. Sad.

#98
Poe Dameron

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Pavonis walks into the realm of trolls to hide his embarrassment.



#99
pavonis

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Trolling? Hardly. The great trolls of nightly may be in the past but I would never even aspire to their depths. Granted, I may not have been hilarious, but trolling? You must have low standards for trollish behavior. 



#100
Poe Dameron

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Indeed I do.  Your behavior qualifies.





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