Lord Darth Hunter Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 Just like with Evil Luke speculation from TFA, if the theme is that there's no good and evil, just people who have misunderstood it and need to be in the gray, I'm out. Not saying they can't do it well, but 100% not the Star Wars I'm interested in.Besides, they already tried it in the books and then realized it was a ****ty concept that had to be abandoned. Think about that: it was an idea that was too bad for the EU.I think this is where it's going. Maybe the Bendu in Rebels is foreshadowing this concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Choc Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 I don't think it's about "shades of gray" for the characters. Good and evil exist, but they have nothing to do with The Force. Kylo Ren orders a whole village killed when they were already prisoners, that's evil. He didn't use The Force to give that order, he just gave it. Tarkin blows up Alderaan as an interrogation technique, that's evil and he never used The Force a day in his life. My take on what is given us in this trailer potentially is 2 fold: 1-The Force is not good or evil, there are no sides to it. It just is. If I gave someone billions of dollars they can either use that money to help people or they can use it selfishly. The money itself is not good or bad, there is no lightside money or darkside money, it's all just money. The same thing for The Force. There is no lightside, there is no darkside. It's just The Force. 2-What we know of the The Force thus far is but a fraction of what it really is. Using it to move objects or trick someone's mind is all well and good but in the grand scheme it's nothing. Luke has discovered some forgotten knowledge on The Force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justus Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 On the Nerdist trailer breakdown, Jessica Chobot went all out to try and find things to make this movie mirror ESB. And boy was she reaching. Let's hope more Luke and less clumsy sidekicks does this movie justice. Seems rather desperate of her. Fans should stop expecting the ESB lightning to be caught again. Its not going to happen. Its not 1980 anymore, where that kind of film was daring, rare and flipped audience expectations on their collective heads (many were just looking for a repeat of the good times of ANH). This era of filmmaking has films--fantasy in particular--all trying to "go dark" often for no justifiable reason. Hell, GL--the creator himself--tried it with AOTC (and a bit of ROTS)...hammered the "its gonna be like ESB" plot points, and it(largely) fell flat, coming off like a film trying to be dark just because the most celebrated episode happened to get it right for the right reasons. Yeah, this is SW, and there's a certain amount of dark themes always present, but I hope this reaching Jessica Chobot's desire for TLJ to clone ESB remain hers--and not what appears in the movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevil Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 My take on it was that Luke was referring to the potential of the force and not just the dark side and the light. I didn't feel it was just a matter of going "grey". I thing it was more down to limits of the the Jedi Order's understanding of the force. Maybe he thinks the Jedi must end because their ways do not begin to realise the potential of the force. The Force has Awakened after all. There will always be dark side and light side references depending on the use of the Force though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamonAtila Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 Maybe just maybe they don't really have an explanation for how it's bigger. Maybe it's just a pretty line, a setup for Luke Force blowing up Star Destroyer as has been rumored Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driver Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 Rain Johnson has been quotededed--- "Last Jedi" is singular, and refers to Luke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryn Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 But, http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/star-wars-8-the-last-jedi-plural-jedis-french-title-meaning-a7585301.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driver Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 I'll side with the guy that wrote it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DANA-kin Skywalker Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 Besides French people can't be trusted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driver Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 Neither can Star Wars writers/directors, but still... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DANA-kin Skywalker Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 Singular, plural...it doesn't matter at all. Luke is a Jedi and he's the last of them, and he's goona die. So there's not going to be any Jedi at all for a bit. But don't worry, Rey is going to bring the Jedi back in episode nine. The title is going to be The return of the Jedi(s). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamonAtila Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 No it's going to be revenge of the Jedis because now there's no difference remember Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driver Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 Over-analyzed (intentionally for fun), but this piece was a lot of fun to read: http://www.polygon.com/2017/4/15/15303952/star-wars-last-jedi-luke-end-of-jedi Basic thesis is that Luke has realized the Jedi shouldn't exist as a secular army with power that puts them above the law. It would be like giving the Vatican an army of super-priests that could go to any country and enforce Catholic law. You know, like the Inquisition. Star Wars always avoids shades of gray, but I've always personally thought Luke redefined being a Jedi since he came back from the dark side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavonis Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 Considering that 67% of Jedi-trained Skywalkers go bad, I can see why Luke is bummed out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Choc Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 Personally I never felt Luke went to the darkside and came back. I always felt like yeah he was angry and he used that anger to defeat Vader but that doesn't mean he went to the darkside. To me anger is a normal human emotion and to try to eliminate it is to basically try to stop someone from being human. Now you can't let it completely control your life, that is the darkside. But having a moment of anger when someone threatens the life of your sister and then shortly after calming down is not the darkside. And to me that is what Luke is going to learn. That some of the Jedi teachings have perverted the earliest beliefs of the earliest Jedi. That you cannot stop being from being angry or afraid or from feeling attached to other people. Those emotions are part of the basic human experience and to try to eliminate them from someone is basically stopping them from feeling basic emotions. That is what Luke learns in those books that nothing about the Force is inherently light or inherently dark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filthy Jawa Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 Maybe I've just read it too many times here, but the payoff being "things aren't all black and white, it's shades of grey" would be disappointing to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Choc Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 But that's not what is being said. Just because The Force isn't good or evil doesn't mean that characters aren't good and evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DANA-kin Skywalker Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 Personally I never felt Luke went to the darkside and came back. I always felt like yeah he was angry and he used that anger to defeat Vader but that doesn't mean he went to the darkside. To me anger is a normal human emotion and to try to eliminate it is to basically try to stop someone from being human. Now you can't let it completely control your life, that is the darkside. But having a moment of anger when someone threatens the life of your sister and then shortly after calming down is not the darkside. And to me that is what Luke is going to learn. That some of the Jedi teachings have perverted the earliest beliefs of the earliest Jedi. That you cannot stop being from being angry or afraid or from feeling attached to other people. Those emotions are part of the basic human experience and to try to eliminate them from someone is basically stopping them from feeling basic emotions. That is what Luke learns in those books that nothing about the Force is inherently light or inherently dark.Bingo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavonis Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 Except not all beings in the Star Wars galaxy are human. Are we supposed to think the Jedi teachings are specific to human psychology? Star Wars is about good and evil, black and white, not grey versus gray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DANA-kin Skywalker Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 Except not all beings in the Star Wars galaxy are human. Are we supposed to think the Jedi teachings are specific to human psychology? Star Wars is about good and evil, black and white, not grey versus gray.You're right. We should instead consider all the other kinds of psychology we are aware of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavonis Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 It's fantasy. Dreaming up shit that's not part of the regular human experience is part of the fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacen123 Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 I'll just leave this here: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamonAtila Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 But what would the gray factor in the force serve the story except to just reinforce the good versus evil aspect. Sounds like it ends there. The force doesn't pick any sides. Boom and nothing else becomes of that line. Then back to Good vs Evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryn Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 Neither can Star Wars writers/directors, but still...That ****ing Story Group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odine Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 Choc is bang on the money in this discussion. And Pav brings up a cool point. If alien races experience different emotions then their experience and relationship with the force could be completely different. Could make for some characters. Though I don't think Disney will stray too far from a human emotional/ethical. I kind of like where it is going. It means that characters are responsible for their actions, decisions and destinies, rather than disowning those things and crying 'the force did it' when someone goes bad. Seems like they might be heading thematically in the direction of "own your shit" so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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