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EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI


Mara Jade Skywalker
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It just seems odd to me for Luke to say he's only seen raw strength like Kylo's once before when he faced Vader and Palpatine.

It seems as logical to me that "before" is referencing the OT (when there were all kinds of mentions of him not being afraid), so then he's talking about either Vader, Palpatine, both, The Empire, or Yoda (doubt it).

So the "now" is Kylo, Snoke, both, The First Order, or Rey (doubt it).

But maybe that underestimates the use of the word "raw". Maybe he thinks Vader and Palpatine were well-done or at least medium-rare strength.

I don't think he sees Vader or Palpatine as being mid strength. He never underestimated their power because he knew how powerful they were, and how much control they had over their power. Vader was the most powerful force user of all, but he had full control - something Kylo yearns to have. He might be more powerful than Vader, but he can't control it. And that's what Luke has never seen before.

 

Kylo's Vader worship starts to make a bit more sense at least.

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Just goes to show, there's nothing you can't make up as a joke that some EU writer didn't try to do seriously.

I don't know if every Ramon post is a joke or if they're all serious.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

 

It just seems odd to me for Luke to say he's only seen raw strength like Kylo's once before when he faced Vader and Palpatine.

It seems as logical to me that "before" is referencing the OT (when there were all kinds of mentions of him not being afraid), so then he's talking about either Vader, Palpatine, both, The Empire, or Yoda (doubt it).

So the "now" is Kylo, Snoke, both, The First Order, or Rey (doubt it).

But maybe that underestimates the use of the word "raw". Maybe he thinks Vader and Palpatine were well-done or at least medium-rare strength.

I don't think he sees Vader or Palpatine as being mid strength. He never underestimated their power because he knew how powerful they were, and how much control they had over their power. Vader was the most powerful force user of all, but he had full control - something Kylo yearns to have. He might be more powerful than Vader, but he can't control it. And that's what Luke has never seen before.

 

Kylo's Vader worship starts to make a bit more sense at least.

 

I agree here. Vader and the Emperor were very powerful, but Luke knew this, so he didn't underestimate them.

 

Everything about the sequel trilogy rhymes with the OT, but everything seems scaled up. The First Order star destroyers are larger than the OT versions. Starkiller base is the Deathstar on steroids. The new walkers are supposedly much larger than AT-ATs. For all we know, both Kylo and Rey are more powerful than Luke. Kylo Ren seems to be a powerful force user if he did in fact bring down Luke's Jedi Temple. It may be revealed that he actually defeated Luke (when he is saying "it won't go the way you think," he looks like he is down on the ground, like he was just defeated, maybe?), who either narrowly escaped, or faked his death. Rey seems to be at least on more than equal footing with Kylo, at the end of TFA, too, so maybe she has even more potential.

 

So, to me, it makes sense Luke is referring to Kylo as the power he should have feared and didn't. He probably feels he did an Obi Wan in training Kylo...thinking he could train him, but only failed him. So, when confronted with training Rey after she displays the same kind of power, he refuses and says she is to dangerous to train. Which, BTW, may lead to Rey getting frustrated and ultimately leaving Luke, to find answers elsewhere, leading to the scenes we saw in the trailer. At least that is what makes sense to me, since it seems like the Last Jedi seems to have some visual callbacks to TESB.

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Or maybe a completely different reason brings her before Snoke on Canto Bight. Maybe Luke went after them and Rey followed? I see the ST mirroring the OT in terms of like visual stuff that happens and how it plays out, but really the characters are different and they could take a different path to get to each similarity.

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And the backgrounds are obviously different.

 

She's still wearing her Ach-To robes, so she's most likely saying it to Luke, which makes sense given the context of their meeting and what we know about their relationship in the film so far.

 

Didn't we cover this already?

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Guest El Chalupacabra

Something just occurred to me. There actually has been a bit of misdirection in the trailer, considering Rey has short hair when she says the line about needing to know her place, and surely the scene with Kylo extending his arm is at the end when her hair is long.

That could indicate a time jump.

 

However, there probably is some misdirection going on, considering Rogue One, and I believe TFA, had cut scenes in the trailers.

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Several days late to this Thought Thread; Lukes Training, Yoda saying he requires no more, that he is a Jedi now (or will be after facing Vader).

 

Perhaps being a Jedi is more a mindset than accomplishing tricks with telekinesis, than having moar power.

 

If so then Luke was a Jedi in RotJ despite his lack of a lifetime of training because he got it philosophically. Becoming more adept at magic tricks would come with time because his foundation was cemented.

 

Afterthought: Other scenes in the films support this, it appears to me anyway. Such as the Padawan that acts against insurmountable opposition to save Bail Organa. Such as Chirrut Imwe, who by all accounts had no force abilities.

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Some of the "evidence" of the theory I don't buy at all. For instance:

 

-Rey's saber fighting style matches Palpatine's. Ummmm stabbing forward in a straight line isn't much of a technique to go by.

Fighting style is not genetic. This means nothing to me.

 

-In the trailer the Palpatine's "scream from ROTS arrest scene" can be heard when Rey ignites the saber. To me, it's just a creepy sound added to give the impression to the audience that training her may lead to grave danger IF she falls to the dark side (which may be a misdirect).

This means less than nothing to me.

 

-"I've seen raw power only once before..." believers of this theory think this line was referring to Palpatine, and now Luke sees the same power in Rey, because they are related. Luke talking about the emperor like this doesn't make much sense to me. He's talking about Kylo and Rey. Maybe Snoke. I think this because these are the characters that are in the damn Trilogy! It's about THEM. There's no narrative reason to circle back and talk about Palpatine, not even for a little tie-in for Rey.

This point is just wrong.

 

-Her accent. Yes, now were talking. British accents in Star Wars are associated with Coruscant and affluence. The emperor came from an affluent family and spent alot of his time on Coruscant. Now it's not a perfect science and it's inconsistent, since Palpatine probably grew up on Naboo and Rey on Jakku (both natives have American accents) but the fact both characters have British accents nevertheless could be an indication they are related. Then again, maybe not because inconsistent indicators are inconsistent.

 

-Rey being a descendent of Palpatine could be a possible explanation why she was stashed on Jakku, and why Luke is reluctant to train her. She was born of the darkside. Yes, valid points on all accounts.

 

Despite the fact I think half of the evidence for this theory is bogus, I still think it's a pretty decent theory with what's left of it. I kind of like the idea of the hero being born from evil.

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